Speaker upgrade advice - from Tannoy Mercury

darrenhaken

Active Member
I have finally added a subwoofer to my system by purchasing a BK and I'm seriously impressed with the difference it's made to my system:

Tannoy Mercury v4 5.0
Sony STR-DN1080
LG C7
BK P12-300SB-PR
Room size is 21m2

It's made me start thinking about upgrades for my Tannoy speakers, starting with the front 3 and then the rears in 6 months.

I have narrowed it down to Monitor Audio Silver, Dali Oberon and Dali Opticon mk2.

I am interested for advice on:
  • Will any of these be purely sidesteps?
  • Will I hear a noticeable difference in quality?
  • Any recommendations to the above models? I'm also open to models I haven't explored.

I did ask about this a while ago and the advice was get a subwoofer - thanks for that advice as I am very happy!

I will eventually upgrade the AV receiver and then the TV over the next few years.

I plan to audition these speakers but it's still interesting to have the discussion.
 
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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Are you looking floorstanders again or can they be standmount speakers? What is your maximum budget?
 

darrenhaken

Active Member
That's an excellent question @Gasp3621 and I've been contemplating it myself. Another member suggested I consider standmounts due to having the subwoofer.

Total budget for the front 3 would be 1500.

I also want to make sure they'll be an improvement in quality of course. I've attached a photo of my front three at the moment. The centre is hidden through the mesh on the front - the cabinet is designed for it.

Happy to share photos of the rear if needed.
 

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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Tv looks small! Projector screen dropping from ceiling in front of tv in future maybe? ;) Seriously that wall screams for larger screen!

At which height the center channel is inside the av-unit? I`m not a fan of the idea of hiding it like that. It will certainly have an effect for sound if placed inside av-unit. You should wall mount the tv or buy floor tv stand adjustable which goes behind and under your av-unit so it would look like the tv is wall mounted, then the speaker would be placed at the front edge of your av-unit (top). Sadly the tv might go lot higher unless you could take the feets off from the av-unit / lower it somehow.

Example MA Silver has real wood veneer cabinets so would also look quite gorgeous when visible. One nitpick could be the large size of center channel as you should ideally look the C350 3-way model! Then either Silver 100 mains with stands or the S 300 model which sometimes can be found open box/ex-demo. There is actually natural oak finish S300 under 1k£.

Silver and Opticon are higher ranges where as Mercurys competed against MA Bronze, Dali Zensor (now called Oberon) in the past so i would look those two ranges more as upgrade, build quality/finish will also be on different level.

B&W 603 can be found for low price now as the new S2 range came out.


I would also want to hear the Focals Chora range. One of the brands that doesn´t downsize the center channel which is one of the most active speaker in your system!


If you would want something special over the mainstream brands you should look in to Arendals 1961 range. Either tower based front mains or monitors. The feedback has been very strong with these. The 1723 THX range is most known, but with your low cost receiver and budget the 1961 range should be more ideal.
 

darrenhaken

Active Member
@Gasp3621 I have only moved in recently and I 100% agree, the TV looks tiny even though it's a 55". It's definitely an area I'll be upgrading in the future.

The centre is slightly below ear level but I have it pointed upwards. It's not optimal and eventually, I think I'll mount the TV and have the centre speaker resting on top. Hiding it gains partner points though which always needs to be considered.

I compared between door shut and open and it was very difficult to distinguish much of a difference although there is one.

Silver and Opticon are higher ranges where as Mercurys competed against MA Bronze, Dali Zensor (now called Oberon) in the past so i would look those two ranges more as upgrade, build quality/finish will also be on different level.
Does this mean you think the Oberon would be more of a sidestep with my Tannoy's?

You never mentioned your thoughts on bookshelves/stand mounts vs floor standers - what do you think?

I'll take a look through your recommendations, I haven't heard of Focal or 1961 series.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
@Gasp3621 I have only moved in recently and I 100% agree, the TV looks tiny even though it's a 55". It's definitely an area I'll be upgrading in the future.

The centre is slightly below ear level but I have it pointed upwards. It's not optimal and eventually, I think I'll mount the TV and have the centre speaker resting on top. Hiding it gains partner points though which always needs to be considered.

I compared between door shut and open and it was very difficult to distinguish much of a difference although there is one.


Does this mean you think the Oberon would be more of a sidestep with my Tannoy's?

You never mentioned your thoughts on bookshelves/stand mounts vs floor standers - what do you think?

I'll take a look through your recommendations, I haven't heard of Focal or 1961 series.

Probably quality wise similar level, although Dalis are always more expensive. Sound wise you might feel they are better who knows, i have idea how the Tannoys sound and i can imagine the Dalis will sound quite different and due to this who knows you might find them more enjoyable. They do have brighter top end and wide soundstage. They shouldn´t be toed in like your Tannoys either!

For movies you don´t necessarily need floorstanders. Oberon 7 would be similar sized what you have now. But for less money you can get the higher range Opticon 2 which is the better speaker and then add stands and the price matches. So lower range tower Vs. higher range bookshelf speakers. When you have sub taking care low end i think the Opticon would make sense more if you feel they look nice also. Many people buys floorstanders cause they look better.

There is the Opticon mk1 for sale cheaper if you still fancy floorstanders and with Opticons many recommends the larger 6 model over 5 so keep this in mind if going tower route. One perhaps more important fact with the tower vs. bookshelf would be that only the floorstand model gives you the dual tweeter which is also found in the Vokal model. Opticon 2 only has that silk dome tweeter, not the ribbon tweeter.

The new mk2 looks bit better and has the tobacco oak and white finish which is better than the basic black. Not sure if you agree though. :) Oh and the Opticon is made in Denmark where as Oberons are made in China if that matters. We just spoke this on other thread.

 

darrenhaken

Active Member
That's really helpful advice on the floorstander Vs standmounts. On the Opticons I was either going to go 2 standmounts or 6 floorstanders btw. Would you say the floorstanders are worth the extra investment between these?

By the time I've bought stands I wasn't sure if I should just pay a few hundred more and get floorstanders!

Any view between the Monitor Audio Silver Vs Opticon range?

On the monitor audio you seemed to recommend the 300 over the 200 - any reason for that?

I do like the look of the oak and white but I think darker models will likely look better in the room.

I will take some time today to read your alternative recommendations by the way - it's very helpful.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Although standmounts, along with their respective stands, can take up the same floor space it is often correct that standmounts can be a better performer than floorstanding speakers at the same price point.

It's also fair to say that with a sub in any system then there will be no difference in bass performance between standmounts and floorstanding speakers. Perhaps the biggest influence should be on actual placement. Standmounts can work better in a more confined space than floorstanding speakers, especially if they have to be close to a wall or corner position.
 

darrenhaken

Active Member
Although standmounts, along with their respective stands, can take up the same floor space it is often correct that standmounts can be a better performer than floorstanding speakers at the same price point.

It's also fair to say that with a sub in any system then there will be no difference in bass performance between standmounts and floorstanding speakers. Perhaps the biggest influence should be on actual placement. Standmounts can work better in a more confined space than floorstanding speakers, especially if they have to be close to a wall or corner position.
Would standmounts work placed on my media cabinet or will it affect the performance?
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
And final factor speaking for the Opticons (over Oberon) would be the fact that many feels it sits in the sweet spot regarding price and sound quality cause if you compare the price jump to (next range) Rubicons those are just too expensive for most people. With this hobby there comes time when you look the higher range thinking about upgrade. I think with the Opticon mk2 there could be less reasons to do that. Diminishing returns creeping in going much higher in price you tend to get less noticeable changes vs. money you p ay as looking back here at AVF few members that compared Opticons and Rubicons side by side felt that there wasn´t that big difference to warrant the huge price jump. One reason for that is due to more expensive wood veneer cabinet. Rubicon uses similar dual tweeter to Opticon floorstanders/Vokal speaker, i would imagine the new mk2 comes even closer to Rubicons.



That's really helpful advice on the floorstander Vs standmounts. On the Opticons I was either going to go 2 standmounts or 6 floorstanders btw. Would you say the floorstanders are worth the extra investment between these?

By the time I've bought stands I wasn't sure if I should just pay a few hundred more and get floorstanders!

Any view between the Monitor Audio Silver Vs Opticon range?

On the monitor audio you seemed to recommend the 300 over the 200 - any reason for that?

I do like the look of the oak and white but I think darker models will likely look better in the room.

I will take some time today to read your alternative recommendations by the way - it's very helpful.

You need to hear S300 vs. Opticon 6 to see which you prefer. Can go either way. 300 would be more similar sized what you have now and due to 3-way design also the "sweet spot" in this range, at least for music listening it has been good step up from S200, also in the past generation Silvers.

If you can afford the Opticon 6s and assuming you like the Dali sound more than MA then yeah my money would go on those cause you get the dual tweeter. Of course there is extra mid-bass driver also, so performance wise bit easier to drive and more performance. If there is dealer that has both in shop then try them with subwoofer. The Vokal model has that dual tweeter so it would make sense to have them on mains too.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Would standmounts work placed on my media cabinet or will it affect the performance?
This is my set up. The cabinet itself is a very heavy build and I have all the speakers on Fisual isolation feet. The main detraction for performance is if the cabinet vibrates causing a resonance within the cabinet itself. As long as you have good stability and position the speakers so that they sit proud of the front edge then that will limit a lot of compromises. That's a 65'' TV to give you some kind of scale and the speakers are KEF R300/200C.

169014423.3oX2AMVS._DSC4302.jpg
 

darrenhaken

Active Member
And final factor speaking for the Opticons (over Oberon) would be the fact that many feels it sits in the sweet spot regarding price and sound quality cause if you compare the price jump to (next range) Rubicons those are just too expensive for most people. With this hobby there comes time when you look the higher range thinking about upgrade. I think with the Opticon mk2 there could be less reasons to do that. Diminishing returns creeping in going much higher in price you tend to get less noticeable changes vs. money you p ay as looking back here at AVF few members that compared Opticons and Rubicons side by side felt that there wasn´t that big difference to warrant the huge price jump. One reason for that is due to more expensive wood veneer cabinet. Rubicon uses similar dual tweeter to Opticon floorstanders/Vokal speaker, i would imagine the new mk2 comes even closer to Rubicons.





You need to hear S300 vs. Opticon 6 to see which you prefer. Can go either way. 300 would be more similar sized what you have now and due to 3-way design also the "sweet spot" in this range, at least for music listening it has been good step up from S200, also in the past generation Silvers.

If you can afford the Opticon 6s and assuming you like the Dali sound more than MA then yeah my money would go on those cause you get the dual tweeter. Of course there is extra mid-bass driver also, so performance wise bit easier to drive and more performance. If there is dealer that has both in shop then try them with subwoofer. The Vokal model has that dual tweeter so it would make sense to have them on mains too.
So to recap:

  • You'd recommend the Silver 300s over the 200s?
  • Opticon is a 'sweet spot' for price and quality - going higher starts to lead to diminishing returns?
  • If I can afford it you'd recommend the Opticon 6 over the 2 for the dual tweeter?
I have still yet to read about the other speakers you've recommended but I assume they should still be considered in the options?
 

darrenhaken

Active Member
This is my set up. The cabinet itself is a very heavy build and I have all the speakers on Fisual isolation feet. The main detraction for performance is if the cabinet vibrates causing a resonance within the cabinet itself. As long as you have good stability and position the speakers so that they sit proud of the front edge then that will limit a lot of compromises. That's a 65'' TV to give you some kind of scale and the speakers are KEF R300/200C.

View attachment 1521202
That's really helpful. I imagine I could have Opticon 2's or Silver 100's on the media cabinet I have then. That would certainly save space.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
That's really helpful. I imagine I could have Opticon 2's or Silver 100's on the media cabinet I have then. That would certainly save space.
Providing the cabinet is wide enough. That cabinet of mine is 2 meters long.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
So to recap:

  • You'd recommend the Silver 300s over the 200s?
  • Opticon is a 'sweet spot' for price and quality - going higher starts to lead to diminishing returns?
  • If I can afford it you'd recommend the Opticon 6 over the 2 for the dual tweeter?
I have still yet to read about the other speakers you've recommended but I assume they should still be considered in the options?

Yes 300 model if going with floorstanders, but you would also then go with the larger C350 center channel. Check the dimensions, it´s quite tall! If you decide to buy standmount speakers i would still buy stands so you can get em little more apart and at correct height, can move freely. There is reason why audiophiles buy stands. Not just for looks. You also want to have more space for larger tv (if not wall mounting) as 55" is ok for bedroom perhaps, but not for living room! Check the optimal watching distances for 4K tv (min/max), people think you need to sit 5meters away but that is not the case! The prices of 75" are coming down fast, i wouldn´t consider anything smaller for typical living room but i understand people who only buy OLED tv which costs lot more and then 65" is the sweet spot usually. But i think there is lot of different brands and technology to choose from...

55"4.6-6.9 feet
60"5-7.5 feet
65"5.4-8.1 feet
70"5.8-8.75 feet
75"6.3-9.4 feet


I was quoting some members findings, but i can´t say would you feel the exact same way. In many ways you are getting lot for your buck with that price range speakers. Usually good step from lower range and then the next step would be too expensive for most people and rest of equipment will cost lot more too..

Opticon 6 mk2 yep. But hopefully you can listen/compare them to Silvers and perhaps some other brands. Also before you buy anything contact few dealers and ask can they give you some good price for the LCR. Usually there is always some air in the prices so i wouldn´t pay list price.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Would you discount the 200 models then?


What does LCR mean?

Not necessarily. Depends of the price too. You would need to hear both. It should be quite easy choice after that. S300 has larger drivers and also dedicated mid-range driver. S200 is lot smaller than what you have now.

Left Center Right= LCR.
 

darrenhaken

Active Member
Not necessarily. Depends of the price too. You would need to hear both. It should be quite easy choice after that. S300 has larger drivers and also dedicated mid-range driver. S200 is lot smaller than what you have now.

Left Center Right= LCR.
Oh, it's smaller than what I have? I used to think I had small floorstanders but now I'm not so sure..
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Hx W x D

885 x 165 x 240 mm (Silver 200 excluding grille & terminals)

1000 x 185 x 300 mm (Silver 300 excluding grille & terminals)

1001 x 195 x 330 mm (Opticon 6 Mk2)

970 x 204 x 281 (Tannoy V4)
 

darrenhaken

Active Member
They're much bigger then...

Any thoughts on the KEF Q series too? I noticed that and B&W are in that price range.
 

darrenhaken

Active Member
Why not! Q750 & Q650c in that case. Surely good option. It would be then the same as AVF review set:

I'm not sure by having more options I'm any better off 😂

At least KEF focus on black which narrows down the finish...

@Gasp3621 I took the time to look at the other options you recommended. I can't find any stockists for the 1961 range.

The other two have some good reviews though
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
There was walnut briefly available, not sure if it comes back..
Amazon product
The Q range looks nice!
d756ev0nndr01.jpg



You could also consider the standmount version Q350 as mains with stands. The Q650c is large! 👌

p6flr65uiln41.jpg
 

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