Speaker recommendations for my bright room?

I agree with most others, I think the floor is causing you most of your problems as is the glass windows or doors, covering these will help a lot.
 
... that there are several more important remedies to these problems before resorting to having the signal processed by a complex circuit. It is the signal more than anything that needs to have its purity maintained and the fewer processing stages the signal has to endure the better. I grant you that many people don't have the skills or patience to do the more important and non-signal damaging methods ...
More then agree with it!

The room looks very typical, and I suggest that it is the speakers what causing bright/unpleasant sound. I've heard Oberon 5 in a similar environment and I can say it is more THIS speaker rather your room.

As you see on a graph, they are U-shaped, what is very common for many speakers at that price range. Our ears will adjust to most sensitive part - midrange, it will be a reference for a brain, and Operonn 5 high frequencies are +6dB, what will let us feel that speakers are bright. You cannot fix them with a room.

EQ may help, but if you dig deeper, you'll see that vertical off-axis shows that crossover is not optimal there, and there is time shift (phase) between woofer and tweeter. With vertical off-axis in crossover point tweeter is inverted relative to woofer and on certain frequency range it east what woofer plays. Floor and ceiling used to reflect the sound, but on the off-axis they get only highs and lows, and overall sound will be the sum of direct and reflected sound from floor and ceiling. Direct signal is U-shaped, and overall signal will be even worse as it gets summ from ceiling and floor where midrange eaten.

There another thing comes - our brain is quite impressive processor, far better then any DSP known, and it easily detects what frequency comes first (in time!), and even if it adjusted by EQ to same level, brain thing that what first comes, more important and treat is a louder.

If speakers measured and you see really flat response, it does not mean that they are absolutely perfect and well-balanced, as there might be other problems in crossovers, which are not seen in standard frequency response measurements and not shown in reviews.

Adding DSP to bad speakers will not fix the root problem. Room correction software usually measures speaker response and also calculates first (and probably second) reflections and introduce inverted signal of measured reflections to compensate reflections. But ears more complex processor, and we hear direct sound, bounced from the walls with phase shift(time delay) and all what DSP introduced into signal. With DSP introduced signals to main signal our Brain will get tired, and will give command to hands to turn volume off as it hears something what is not as it used to hear and process.


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The image is from this review: DALI Oberon 5
 
I feel I've seen this room before or one almost identical to it in the past. Are you running a HT-BYPASS system as I can see both a Marantz and Arcam in play.

If this is the case, where are you finding the sound is a little weak plus if it is a HT-BYPASS system, how are you integrating those woofers to bring in extra depth which could help mask some of the sharpness from the room hard surfaces
Hi Shane. I am indeed running the Arcam with HT-Bypass. When I listen to music, I am just running the Arcam on it’s own via a Yamaha music streamer, so the subs are not in use, I only use the Arendal’s for HT.

In other news, I have ordered a thick runner rug to cover the width of the speakers at the front of the room, and have also been given permission to dismantle the coffee table which may stop some reflections. This is about as far as I can go in terms of room changes. I will report back on my findings once table has gone and runner is in place. Thanks to everyone for their 2 cents so far, apologies I haven’t had time to reply to each of you.
 
By bright do you mean cymbals sound harsh?

Can you give some examples.
Not so much symbols I wouldn’t say. More noticeable on vocals, mid and higher notes can start to sound brittle, hollow, lacking body to the point they can sound overly sharp.
 
Ignore the room correction naysayers.

Much as you might ignore a square wheel salesman 👍
 
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Ignore the room correction naysayers.

Much as you might ignore a square wheel salesman 👍
On the other hand, ignore those who either haven't got the patience or skills to sort out these problems without resorting to signal manipulation. You don't need a new amp to get good sound, though you may have less than ideal speakers for your particular room.
 
On the other hand, ignore those who either haven't got the patience or skills to sort out these problems without resorting to signal manipulation. You don't need a new amp to get good sound, though you may have less than ideal speakers for your particular room.
So what you are suggesting is manipulating the sound by changing the transducers. Don't see a lot of difference except it is cludgey and difficult because trying to find exactly the right one for a particular room is almost impossible without trialling dozens of different speakers until you hit on the right one. Love to know how you practically achieve that, bearing in mind the limited range each dealer stocks and the reluctance to let them out for home trial because of the risk of damage.

One room correction system is all that is needed because it is variable and can be adjusted according to the room - why make it more complicated? Much easier for dealers to let out one piece of electronics for home trial, that do not have a fragile wood or painted finish.
 
Hi.
I am looking for some advice on potential speakers that could work well in my room. I have attached some photos to make it easier to understand my problem. As you can see, my room is an extension with glass patio doors and windows all down the left hand side. I believe this is what is causing my speakers to sound bright to the point it can be slightly painful, usually with music.

Current setup when listening to music is Dali Oberon 5’s driven by an Arcam SA20. After a lot of experimenting, the position the speakers are now seems to be the best I can find in terms of alleviating the shrill sound, which is quite close to the back wall and the speakers as wide as they can physically go, as this seems to help with the left speaker being more behind the plant. If I move them out into the room, the brightness is much worse, I think because it opens up the left speaker to more open angles to hit the glass without the plant defracting the sound.

I think another issue is that the Oberon’s are perhaps not helping my problem because they have wide dispersion and are designed to be aimed straight ahead. I did try toeing them in but they sounded really bright, even more so.
Which now leads me to my question. Would a speaker that is designed to be toed in be better suited for my room, so that the deflections of the glass will then have less impact as the left speakerView attachment 1821334View attachment 1821336 will be toed away from it? If you agree with that logic, what speakers would you recommend?
I have AE309’s on my radar and also Wharfedale EVO 4.3’s. It needs to be a compact floorstander - I have very little space between subs and cabinet so needs to be ok running within a foot or less of front wall. Also would need to be available in white. And obviously don’t want a bright speaker.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Were the speakers originally demoed at a dealers and the problem has only risen at home - where they now sound too bright?
 
Were the speakers originally demoed at a dealers and the problem has only risen at home - where they now sound too bright?
No I didn’t demo the speakers so can’t compare to another room
 
No I didn’t demo the speakers so can’t compare to another room
I have no idea what the Dali speakers sound like [neutral/forward etc] - so I googled a few reviews and my conculsion is its not so much the speaker - But the room itself.
Too many reflections spoil the broth, possibly more smaller rugs on that floor and curtains on the glass - but you could hang wooden blinds which would diffuse the sound wave especially the first sound reflection.
Try this. whilst you are in your sitting position get someone to walk along the glass wall holding a mirror - what you want to see is the refection of the speaker tweeter in the mirror.
That will be your first reflection, now do on the same opposite wall - tape a thick piece of cloth where that reflection is on the glass, play some music and see if you hear a difference?
Worth a try and costs nothing to see if you do hear an improvement.
 
I have already identified my first reflection points. The one on the left is where the plant is to try and diffuse the sound a little. Adding additional blinds is going to be a none starter unfortunately.

What are people’s thoughts on streaming my music via the AVR and just using the Arcam as a power amp so that I get the benefit of Audyssey? It seems a waste of the Arcam though.
 
I have already identified my first reflection points. The one on the left is where the plant is to try and diffuse the sound a little. Adding additional blinds is going to be a none starter unfortunately.

What are people’s thoughts on streaming my music via the AVR and just using the Arcam as a power amp so that I get the benefit of Audyssey? It seems a waste of the Arcam though.
Assuming you have all of the cables required, why not give it a go. At worst you think it sounds dreadful and switch everything back. Hardly a massive effort if it ends up improving things.
 
Have you pulled the speakers out from the subs and listened?
 
Have you pulled the speakers out from the subs and listened?
Yes, pulling the speakers out makes the brightness noticeably worse. The position in the photos is the best I can find to alleviate the brightness.
 
One room correction system is all that is needed because it is variable and can be adjusted according to the room - why make it more complicated?
If it is that easy, some speaker builder wouldn't bother to design excellent speakers. All they need to do is bung 2 or 3 drivers into a cabinet and (as long as the drivers can deliver the entire frequency range between them), the lazy speaker designer could leave everything to the customer's DSP to sort out all 3 problems - the poor frequency curve of the speakers, poor ssetting up of the speakers and the room’s poor acoustics. Is that what you want - poorly designed speakers as there's no need to buy accurate ones if there's DSP in the house?

This surely isn't the best approach. First the right TYPE of speaker for the room needs to be considered, then the brand / model after research from reputable and unbiased sources (so not forums and not Youtube videos, but the likes of Stereophile) to create a short list. With a handful of likely contenders, visits to dealers may result in eliminating some, but the best should be home auditioned (essential if buying new) and a good decision made.

That's not the end of the job of course, as the setting up of the speakers need very careful attention and (as being discussed here) the room's acoustics need attention by suitable carpeting, curtains, soft furnishings, or (last resort) room treatment.

Leave electronic manipulation of the precious signal to those who can't or won’t do the job properly - or those AV guys who have multiple speakers to provide sound to support their visual experience.
 
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reputable and unbiased sources (so not forums and not Youtube videos, but the likes of Stereophile)
Ha ha ha ha . Now I know you're trolling. Always thought you were a bit to arrogantly certain of your position.
Example:

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An example from a 'reputable, unbiased source' in your eyes. Ha! Magic cable.
 
Ha ha ha ha . Now I know you're trolling. Always thought you were a bit to arrogantly certain of your position.
You're clutching at straws. All reviews need to be assessed for their logic, accuracy or relevence. Why not make an attempt to discuss the point that I'm making about speaker design and DSP? May be an interesting subject.
 
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You're clutching at straws. All reviews need to be assessed for their logic, accuracy or relevence. Why not make an attempt to discuss the point that I'm making about speaker design? I
Speaker design is of course important, but most people don't have the time or money to check every possible speaker type, let alone how they interact with their room.

Then there's the fact that a lot of those rooms are shared spaces, with specific decor that doesn't lend itself to physical fixes.

I think my main issue isn't your argument, it's the fact that you posit yours as correct and the other side as wrong, rather than there being space for both.

A lot of people with room correction systems are probably also accepting that physical changes to the environment can help.
 
I think my main issue isn't your argument, it's the fact that you posit yours as correct and the other side as wrong, rather than there being space for both.
It might be that @Hear Here 's insistance is tiring for some yet we are on the HiFi section here where a minimum of effort should be seen as 'normal' for those discussing stereo. To see that someone is making an effort to regards sound should make anyone on here happy.
Just bunging a bow into the system to sort out things that can be alleviated and calmed by a little effort is no solution. Even a little effort would make that boxes work a lot easier.
Coming onto what is essentially an audiophile section of a forum and just writing buy this box is just sooo disappointing.

Our discussions shouldn't stop at buy this box and some patience and tolerance should be given to those with more purist and classical opinions. In fact I would propose another sub forum for the one box solutionists.

Dispite having written this I do believe the OP of this thread should go for a one box solution. He has made it clear he isn't prepared to make the effort!
 
Do you want room correction in your system?
 
Dispite having written this I do believe the OP of this thread should go for a one box solution. He has made it clear he isn't prepared to make the effort!
Bit harsh! Literally just spent the last half an hour dismantling a perfectly good coffee table. I’ve got nowhere to put my glass of red now 😂
 
It might be that @Hear Here 's insistance is tiring for some yet we are on the HiFi section here where a minimum of effort should be seen as 'normal' for those discussing stereo. To see that someone is making an effort to regards sound should make anyone on here happy.
Just bunging a bow into the system to sort out things that can be alleviated and calmed by a little effort is no solution. Even a little effort would make that boxes work a lot easier.
Coming onto what is essentially an audiophile section of a forum and just writing buy this box is just sooo disappointing.

Our discussions shouldn't stop at buy this box and some patience and tolerance should be given to those with more purist and classical opinions. In fact I would propose another sub forum for the one box solutionists.

Dispite having written this I do believe the OP of this thread should go for a one box solution. He has made it clear he isn't prepared to make the effort!
My point is exactly that there is room for both options. My issue with @Hear Here's posts (some, not all) isn't that he's persistent in arguing his point. It's the constant assertion that the electronic way is wrong. By all means suggest getting the correct speaker and making adjustments to furnishings. Both perfectly valid solutions. No need to constantly bang the anti-room correction drum though. That's the wearing bit.

You can bang your own drum without trying to rip down the other guy's.
 

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