Speaker position please help

shaunc50

Novice Member
A very rough layout of the room and spec for now but the speakers at the rear and sides are MK S300T and the front are MK IW300 with 2 x X12 Subs (most probably going either side of the screen)

What I am asking is due to the sofa not being central to the screen can I move this closer to the Right mid speaker (I can shift the back ones over no issues but the left mid is stuck there)

Also how much difference does it make for the front speakers to be under the screen knee hight vs behind at ear hight for sound

Any help would be appreciated
Layout of room.JPG
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
The sofa doesn't have to be central, your AVR will adjust levels when you tell it what your MLP is.

Knee height speakers vs normal height would depend really on what it's firing into or bouncing off before it gets to you and how far you are away from them. It's not really something you can guess, it might make bugger all difference - MK have a pretty wide dispersion generally speaking.

No love for normal height and something in the acoustically transparent screen?
 

shaunc50

Novice Member
Just bought a react 3 drop-down screen 3 months ago so was thinking with putting them higher we would need to go to a normal screen which is another question in itself.

We are treating the room more in the new house but which would work better in a none full bat cave, normal screen with JVC N7 or stick with the current screen
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
I don't think anyone can answer it accurately without measuring what the off axis response is with the speakers in both positions. If you click on my build thread you can see what I ended up doing with the same gear and screen as you.

Gear came after the screen tho..
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
How much did you have to drink??
 

shaunc50

Novice Member
I also really want the S300 vs IW300 as they seem to have more Frequency Response (not that I am all that clued up on those things but it seems to be worth it if you can go that way)

The only issue is I would need to sit them on a cabinet at the front due to kids (don't get me wrong I am building the cabinet so it is sturdy but would this be as good as stand mounts, can you get vibration pads mabe to make it better?)
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
Not much difference between the IW and on stands version. Some would argue that being in wall removes some early reflections it just wasn't possible for my build and they didn't exist at the time.

Just some ordinary speaker stand pads are sufficient. I'd be seriously worried if there was any vibration coming from the S300 speaker cab - it's a bit of an old wives tale HiFi ghost story that you need some magic decoupler to stop your sound being ruined.

What is driving all these speakers? Is someone forcing you against your will for what is likely unnecessary room treatment??
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
Also.. who's demo room is this? That's... an interesting colour scheme going on there.
 

shaunc50

Novice Member
Currently we have the walls and carpet in a slightly lighter grey but the roof is white and I really want to go like the image as it should hopefully bring the light bounce in the room down (even with the react 3 while the image is nicer and light is less I really like a room as dark as possible when watching films).

I heard the Anthem AVM60 with Yamaha Aventage MX-A5200 or will be going ATI / Lyngdorf plus other amp but still trying to decide and the issue is travel for me to test them as the closest I have tried so far is audiovisual online who had the mk 300's and Anthem AVM60 with Yamaha Aventage MX-A5200

The room above is AVonline - the guy said gecko helped set up the sound (no idea who that is)?
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
Well, you're a bit far from me. But if you want an actual proper demo with the speakers you have and want to hear the Lyngdorf and the Anthem on the same day go and hear @Seriously Ltd demo facilities.

At that kind of money you owe it to yourself to go check out an actual proper demo room with someone who will genuinely look after you for all your needs and he's 2hrs on the train from you.
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
AVM60 with a Yamaha power amp... savages.
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
should hopefully bring the light bounce in the room down (even with the react 3 while the image is nicer and light is less I really like a room as dark as possible when watching films).
There won't be much in it without going to dark grey. I went with Dulux bitter chocolate because black was out of the question and red is utterly useless.

The room above is AVonline - the guy said gecko helped set up the sound (no idea who that is)?
@Rob Sinden Gecko Home Cinema is the distributor for MK, Lyngdorf and Steinway Lyngdorf - he also has 4 demo rooms and is out in Newberry - MK/JVC/Lyngdorf setup in a dark room is just one of them.
 

Seriously Ltd

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
We are currently building a dedicated room for clients with tiered seating and screen not centralised. This will not be an issue as each speaker gets time aligned. We will post pictures once the wall fabric track system is finished.
As you are using a bass managed system ie subs, you do not need the S300’s. You will be loosing absolutely nothing by installing the IW300’s. Your MK’s will not play anything below 80hz.
An AVM60 and the Yamaha power amp will work extremely well. If you can stretch to Lyngdorf processing even better.
Depending on where you are based you are welcome to come and have a listen to our M&K300 7.4.4 /Lyngdorf Audio cinema dem room. We also have the N7 and a Kaleidescape movie server. Just get in touch.
Best regards

[email protected]
 

Seriously Ltd

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Also the darker the room the bettter. Below is our demonstration room featuring a stretched fabric wall system and a custom acoustic star ceiling.
5EDB48BD-C755-4D73-8B2A-3858EA5F4E83.jpeg

4C09B542-5B4E-4103-92C0-7BD72AE34A73.jpeg
39BDC9AB-375E-42D8-B185-B8CFA4515492.jpeg
 
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Seriously Ltd

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor

pps73

Standard Member
I recently bought a Marantz 7013 using it with the new B&W 603's towers and HTM6 center. Surrounds and front atmos are old yamaha bookshelf speakers.
If I add the Yamaha MX-A5200 to power my LCR's and use the marantz 7013 to power the rest 4 speakers (surrounds & atmosphere) shall I feel any difference in sound quality and overall power in comparison to driving all 7 channels with the marantz 7013 ?
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Partha
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
I recently bought a Marantz 7013 using it with the new B&W 603's towers and HTM6 center. Surrounds and front atmos are old yamaha bookshelf speakers.
If I add the Yamaha MX-A5200 to power my LCR's and use the marantz 7013 to power the rest 4 speakers (surrounds & atmosphere) shall I feel any difference in sound quality and overall power in comparison to driving all 7 channels with the marantz 7013 ?
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Partha
No, it would be a waste to throw nearly 3 grand at a £1,200 pair of speakers attached to a £1,500 receiver - no need at all.
 

b1g1an

Well-known Member
Thanks much for the suggestion.
You saved me a lot of money.
Cheers,
Partha
Depending on how much power those B&Ws like you may be surprised at the difference a power amp makes. My Kef Rs sound completely different in the best way now I've added a Marantz MM7055 to my X3500h which I know is a level below yours but the difference is still relative. Mainstream AVRs don't deliver power like a power amp can.

You certainly don't need to throw £3k at one though, the seven channel Iota does a great job for around £1k and the Marantz ones come in the same chassis as your 7013 if that sort of thing floats your boat.

Try to borrow something to see what it does, even a two channel will give you an idea.
 

pps73

Standard Member
That's interesting suggestion ☺
As all avr's have there own signature sound, when you are mixing two brands in the setup will it change the sound characteristics? Example, if I add the Yamaha to my marantz, will it sound like a Yamaha setup or I will still get the warm marantz signature sound?
Thanks for your help.
Partha
 

b1g1an

Well-known Member
I think it's generally reckoned power amps are fairly transparent and it's the pre amp side that colours the sound.

The manual to my Denon has this odd statement... "By adding a power amplifier to each channel, the realness of the sound can be further enhanced." All I know is the sound is now a lot bigger and much more detailed
 

pps73

Standard Member
I think it's generally reckoned power amps are fairly transparent and it's the pre amp side that colours the sound.

The manual to my Denon has this odd statement... "By adding a power amplifier to each channel, the realness of the sound can be further enhanced." All I know is the sound is now a lot bigger and much more detailed
Cool.
That means any good power amp will just drive the speakers transparently with more authority without colouring the sound.
Why I am eying the MX-A5200, is because it has the ability to drive the front two channels in bridge mode @200w each. Which I guess will give me quite a few db headroom on the main volume.
My other option is Emotiva Gen3 XPA3 - 3 channel power amp. But I am not sure about its technology of using SMPS boards as opposed to traditional torrodoid or ei transformers.
Any views will be highly appreciated.
Cheers,
Partha
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
it's just not quite as simple as that and there's a lot of marketing half truths. The first thing a power amp will do is give you more headroom, which is fine if you're planning on playing things really loud on speakers that demand it, to compliment an already great sound.

Remember, you only get +3dB more with double the watts. Then there's the argument that the power amp will likely have a better power supply, noise floor and less clipping - all likely true, but how much? how are you going to measure that outside their spec sheets - they're likely not measured the same.

Say they are the same, how much 'better' will it sound in your room, with the rest of your kit including the effect of the room correction has had on everything - that is your biggest single most issue.

Let's say it's all fine and audibly better - do you really think the same levels of clarity will be produced to all channels equally? Since we don't know what your other speakers are I can only guess they are nowhere near as good as your fronts. Based on that you are likely better off with a 3 or for the sake of a few more ££, a 5ch power amp.

Emotiva has been a well received brand both here and the US - I'd be more inclined to go with them over Yamaha.

With all that said, the pay off of a power amp vs the gear you have currently is likely not worth it.
 

pps73

Standard Member
it's just not quite as simple as that and there's a lot of marketing half truths. The first thing a power amp will do is give you more headroom, which is fine if you're planning on playing things really loud on speakers that demand it, to compliment an already great sound.

Remember, you only get +3dB more with double the watts. Then there's the argument that the power amp will likely have a better power supply, noise floor and less clipping - all likely true, but how much? how are you going to measure that outside their spec sheets - they're likely not measured the same.

Say they are the same, how much 'better' will it sound in your room, with the rest of your kit including the effect of the room correction has had on everything - that is your biggest single most issue.

Let's say it's all fine and audibly better - do you really think the same levels of clarity will be produced to all channels equally? Since we don't know what your other speakers are I can only guess they are nowhere near as good as your fronts. Based on that you are likely better off with a 3 or for the sake of a few more ££, a 5ch power amp.

Emotiva has been a well received brand both here and the US - I'd be more inclined to go with them over Yamaha.

With all that said, the pay off of a power amp vs the gear you have currently is likely not worth it.
That's a fascinating, logical and excellent reply.

Thank you so much for all the details.
Really appreciate 😊

It's like running behind "boy's toys". It's never ending and till you actually have it in your own setup you will never know how much more better or worse any equipment will sound.

I have plans on buying the B&W 607 for the rears replacing the Yamaha NS-M325 bookshelf pair. But not getting the self justification of investing quite a lot on the 607's just for surrounds.

Will check on the 3 channel Emotiva XPA-3 Gen3.

Cheers,
Partha
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
Upgrades are awesome, we all like them and everyone should buy what makes them happy - with a little bit of experience the best systems are the most balanced ones.

I wouldn't use a Yamaha power amp with my MK300 setup and not because Yamaha are bad, but trying to cram 11 channels into one box at that price doesn't sit well with me - something will have been sacrificed and since Yamaha build decent and reliable stuff, then I can only imagine it to be it's delivery.

Also the MK300 systems will be accurate with the most expensive of power amplifiers and pre amps, I would challenge anyone to find a processor or multi channel amp that will outshine them - I've heard several top end units on these things now, so maybe for someone like @shaunc50 has tons of options, budget willing of course.
 

pps73

Standard Member
Upgrades are awesome, we all like them and everyone should buy what makes them happy - with a little bit of experience the best systems are the most balanced ones.

I wouldn't use a Yamaha power amp with my MK300 setup and not because Yamaha are bad, but trying to cram 11 channels into one box at that price doesn't sit well with me - something will have been sacrificed and since Yamaha build decent and reliable stuff, then I can only imagine it to be it's delivery.

Also the MK300 systems will be accurate with the most expensive of power amplifiers and pre amps, I would challenge anyone to find a processor or multi channel amp that will outshine them - I've heard several top end units on these things now, so maybe for someone like @shaunc50 has tons of options, budget willing of course.
Understood.

I was checking the Yamaha because the 5200 offers the bridge mode for the front channels, and as I am only planning to power the front 3 channels I will most likely not use the rest channels from the 5200. And also as you correctly pointed out, Yamaha's are very reliable and has excellent build and component quality. But the price is quite high.

Will check the Emotiva XPA-3 and then I will take the call.

Thanks so much for all your help and support :)

Cheers,
Partha
 

Conrad.

Active Member
Very similar. We used the worlds blackest fabric in this room believe it or not. We specialise in full fabric wall and acoustic systems.
You're using vantablack? I didn't think that was commercially available. Is that something you're able to install in customer's set-ups?
 

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