Speaker placement and upgrade??

pamasonicman666

Active Member
Good Afternoon Everyone,

I have recieved some fantastic support on here over the last few years thank you, i was miss informed when i rebuilt my house and my set up was not as good as it should be.

I currently have a 5.1 set up and am in the process of upgrading and moving a few things but wanted some feedback or advise if possible...

Firstly, my set up...

yamaha amp RX V675 - This is being upgraded
Front speaker directly under TV in middle of room
Front L and R speakers are the same speaker but in the ceiling - This is what is changing
Rears - I have a sloped ceiling and i have 2 rears in the ceiling pointing down towards our couch
TV - About to be upgraded but is in the right place
Projector - Optima UHD35 4k

All speakers are KEF ci 160qr
All wires hidden in the wall

Sub SVS PB1000 Pro


Here is my plan...
(forgot to say I have 2 others speakers the same Kef on the other side of the room for zone 2 - I can use these also_

Plan:
Add 2 front L&R the same height as the TV which is a little higher than head height - Any suggestions
I am going to build a media unit and hopefully to still build them into the wall
Put the ceiling speakers further back and turn into Atoms
Swap out the Amp for a Denon 2700 as my Yamaha doesn't have 2 HDMI outputs, 4K or Atmos

As for the rears i am not too sure what i can do here as i cannot run a wire directly to the amp??

Room is quite large about 6.5 x 10 metres with cinema/lounge on one side and Kitchen on the other,

Any suggestions? Thank you
 

ShanePJ

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Hi, If you have a photo of the front of the room, this will paint a thousand words more than any other explanation.

You mention that you have the same three front speakers although two are installed in the ceiling which is a little confusing. Usually, the front three speakers are from the same family of speaker manufacturer and range to keep the front end sounding balanced.

So, with you adding that you have a centre beneath the TV, I'm guessing this is in-wall speaker which you are using as an centre channel? You also mention that you have added an extra two speakers. If these are the same, are you looking to swap the front in-ceiling speakers with the newer installed in-walls closer to the TV so that the in-ceilings become the front-highs/atmos and the newer in-walls become part of the three front speakers?

As for the swap from the Yamaha to the Denon almost answers the question I'm asking above, you should be fine. As for the cabinet side, just be aware that the AV Receiver require ventilation and if you don't make them large enough, you could cook it. You could elevate this as others have done with the an AC Infinity fan system
 

pamasonicman666

Active Member
Good idea, few things with the room, front I have the 55 inch tv and in wall kef ci 160 underneath, 2 circle ci160 in the ceiling, the 2 at the front I am thinking of changing to atmos and I will if needed move somewhere else in that square.

I then have the back of the house beam and the projector sits in front of that.

In the rear I have the 2 speakers in the ceiling
 

Attachments

  • 47580832-7EA0-4340-AE7D-9F53872189BC.jpeg
    47580832-7EA0-4340-AE7D-9F53872189BC.jpeg
    275.4 KB · Views: 38
  • 51F9379D-33DE-4776-8989-CEF2EEC3F373.jpeg
    51F9379D-33DE-4776-8989-CEF2EEC3F373.jpeg
    289.8 KB · Views: 36
  • A84C14CE-4F94-4EFF-A15F-A238BD97DF98.jpeg
    A84C14CE-4F94-4EFF-A15F-A238BD97DF98.jpeg
    239.7 KB · Views: 34
  • 27C82E98-4B9E-4530-9B1F-2E6E6AA56F75.jpeg
    27C82E98-4B9E-4530-9B1F-2E6E6AA56F75.jpeg
    260.6 KB · Views: 34
  • A60C8B16-6AD6-482A-9C98-ADA1A8F15A4F.jpeg
    A60C8B16-6AD6-482A-9C98-ADA1A8F15A4F.jpeg
    313.8 KB · Views: 35
  • A9E68ECA-704D-4B4F-8DBD-3BEDBBAFFC20.jpeg
    A9E68ECA-704D-4B4F-8DBD-3BEDBBAFFC20.jpeg
    320.4 KB · Views: 33
  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    162.5 KB · Views: 33

pamasonicman666

Active Member
Hi, If you have a photo of the front of the room, this will paint a thousand words more than any other explanation.

You mention that you have the same three front speakers although two are installed in the ceiling which is a little confusing. Usually, the front three speakers are from the same family of speaker manufacturer and range to keep the front end sounding balanced.

So, with you adding that you have a centre beneath the TV, I'm guessing this is in-wall speaker which you are using as an centre channel? You also mention that you have added an extra two speakers. If these are the same, are you looking to swap the front in-ceiling speakers with the newer installed in-walls closer to the TV so that the in-ceilings become the front-highs/atmos and the newer in-walls become part of the three front speakers?

As for the swap from the Yamaha to the Denon almost answers the question I'm asking above, you should be fine. As for the cabinet side, just be aware that the AV Receiver require ventilation and if you don't make them large enough, you could cook it. You could elevate this as others have done with the an AC Infinity fan system
Yes that’s right, I am planning 2 new fronts to get all speakers on the front wall ( as it should have been) ideally I would like in wall speakers. I was advised when buying these that they can go anywhere due to a new uni q thing in the speakers so in the ceiling wouldn’t be a problem!! Aghh


You will see I have a big issue with g the rears as I cannot see how I can get them in?? We move the couches to sit directly under the beam when film watching ;)
 

ShanePJ

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
This is going to be a tough room to reconfigure for sure.

For one, the centre speaker you have built into the wall is far to small for the size of the room. The in-ceilings are two far into the corners for atmos duties just as pointers .I'm glad to hear you change the orientation of the room when your watching screen which will enable you to use the rear in-ceiling as atmos

My suggestion would be to change the front three which will mean a lot of work changing the centre as this is already cut in to the wall, but its just to small and it's the most important speaker for good cinema experiences. I would suggest any in-walls/on-walls which are LCR (matching left, centre and right speakers). Monitor Audio, Compact Audio, Speaker Craft, Klipsch as a few other suggestions

As for the comment about the Uni-Q, that is a good assumption within reason and I'd say that reason was stretched somewhat. The Uni-Q has a wider dispersion when delivering sound meaning its certainly more flexible, however you have speakers pointing in completely different directions in the room which really isn't how Kef expected them to be used. If they were placed in-wall like the centre, you would most likely be happy with the results as they're good speakers all be it a little small for the room in my opinion

Can I ask what AV Receiver are you using together with subwoofer? If its a meaty woofer, then it could be picking up the slack from the Kef's
 

pamasonicman666

Active Member
Yeah it’s a pain to configure it’s still good sound in here but I know it can be better, yes the in ceilings I will move so can get them anywhere in that ceiling square to get the best out of atmos, the rears I could also change to atmos I suppose so I would have 4 on ceiling but I then need to figure out the rears??

The sub is an SVS pb1000 pro

Re the wall my plan is to build this out a little and I can amend the speakers but when I put this one in the centre I went through to the other room ( freshly decorated room!!) wife was not happy!!!!
 

ShanePJ

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
The rear surrounds could be placed on the side walls (although I can only see one side of the room, so I'm not 100% sure if its possible

Building a false wall would be a good way of sorting the front end configuration out in the room and I bet she wasn't to happy :eek:. So I'm amazed you've been allowed to play again or is this one of those which I've seen many customer in the past play at. Send the other half away on holiday for a few days, quickly do the jobs required and when its don't see if they notice and when they do, its to late plus its easier to get forgiveness than permission :rolleyes:
 

pamasonicman666

Active Member
I planted the seed for the media wall a number of years ago, nothing is agreed yet but if I can make it look good she will be happy, the deal was I can have a screen and speakers if I hide them!!!

Other side isn’t good I am afraid as it goes off to the kitchen it’s a big open plan room?
 

pamasonicman666

Active Member
Would the rears be ok still in the ceiling or not? I can make the rear ceiling atmos but I cannot move them as they are fixed in the ceiling, this is a photo of the back… also done a photo of the room so you can see what I am up against …
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    329 KB · Views: 26
  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    343.1 KB · Views: 24
  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    236.6 KB · Views: 32

ShanePJ

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
With the rear of the room, if you are able to place speakers like the Kef T-101's, these could sit in the area's I shown on the two photos. I know they're a little crude, but I feel this will be the simplest option at the rear

This way, you can use the in-ceiling in that part of the room for atmos and you shouldn't have worry about moving them as the AV Receiver should sort out the differences

As for the fronts, I feel the false wall option will be the best way forward even though there will be a bit of mess to start with and a small reduction of the room, the end result will will be a significant step in the right direction.

1.jpg
2.jpg
 

ShanePJ

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
As for the front of the room, using some LCR in-wall options, you could use either of these options left and right speakers (L&R) depending upon if you projection screen is *acoustically transparent (AT). If it's not, then you'll be looking at the one inline with the centre while the ones vertically aligned with the TV are the preferred option (if the screen has this is AT). Again, apologies for the crudeness in speaker placement. When locating the speakers, use the centre of the wall as the marker for both the TV and centre channel placement. For the measurements of the L&R speakers, use the gap between the edge of the TV and side walls and split the difference by 50%, this is where you want the centre tweeter to be located. Height wise, this is more cosmetic, although if you are mounting them vertically, then using the TV as a benchmark measurement is ideal and simply split the difference in height and mount them vertically central so they look balanced with the TV. If your screen isn't AT, then mount them inline with the centre whilst maintaining the central tweeter measurement as with the vertical speakers.

Hope that gives you some food for thought

3.jpg
 

pamasonicman666

Active Member
Thank you for the info I’ll take a good look tonight when I am on my laptop, can I just ask, at the front where I currently have the 2 in ceiling speakers would o re use them and have 4 atmos as I could get away with moving them without too much disruption.

The rears are really thin so I am guessing they can be placed on the wall instead of built in, the helps a lot thank you

Re the front I look at that and go cool, my wife may say another word but I’ll check it my screen is acoustic and take a photo with the screen down, I never thought of doing 3 centres? Would they all run into the centre amp socket?

Thank you for all the info ;)
 

ShanePJ

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
My suggestion would be to try them. I feel moving them would be a hassle, although you can obtain plastic rings as many years ago an installer I used own such a product when one of my clients needed some speakers moving and it was a clever piece of kit which cut the hole in two steps, then an insert with the cut out slotted in the area of the ceiling which needed repairing. Unfortunately I'm unsure what this tool was called or what the parts were and it was over 10 years ago

Yeah, the Kef T-101 speakers would be mounted on the wall as they're ultra thin

The front of the room with any of the in-wall LCR's many have grills which can also be painted meaning you can really blend them into the décor
 

pamasonicman666

Active Member
I have seen something simile to the plastic rings but if i can leave them in place and hook them up ot front atmos ill try that first, if i dont need to move that will save a few holes!!

Rears - Perfect, the Kef T-101's look really good, 2 in white shouldn't be an issue, just a shame i didn't have a wire added when we designed this room :(

My screen is a cinemax tab tension so i am looking online to see if it is AT.......

Thank you for all your help :)
 

pamasonicman666

Active Member
for the fronts would this be ok, this looks to be a similar back to the ones i have built into the wall so i know i can fit it,

KEF Ci4100QL THX In Wall Speaker - White​

 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
You should avoid installing the M-T-M 2-way speaker horizontally like the Monitor Audios if possible, as a minium mount the L/R vertically and if you have AT-screen then the centre too! Check the article below and you understand why it´s not so good idea.


image_preview2



 

pamasonicman666

Active Member
Hi, Thank you for the below, i am a little confused about the above, if i did have 3 centres would i daisy chain them together so they are all connected in the centre speaker? Also, 3 centres may not be passed by the boss. I was thinking of using the KEF speakers noted above, can i have one of these on the side and would this be ok?
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Hi, Thank you for the below, i am a little confused about the above, if i did have 3 centres would i daisy chain them together so they are all connected in the centre speaker? Also, 3 centres may not be passed by the boss. I was thinking of using the KEF speakers noted above, can i have one of these on the side and would this be ok?

All connected to centre speaker, what? o_O No! You connect each like you normally would to av-receiver.
The Kef with the coaxial drivers might work fine like you propose all three horizontally laying cause they generally suffer less of the issues vs. 2-way MTM speaker, you would just mount them on seated ear height and make sure they are placed optimally vs. listening position meaning the L/R channels how much they are apart. If you sit further away you don´t want to just throw them on wall tightly together just cause they look nicer that way.
 

pamasonicman666

Active Member
I am going to work out the spaces this weekend, sorry maybe this is me being daft, i only have 1 centre av receiver so would all 3 centres all go back to the one av receiver centre or do i need a new type of receiver to have more receiver ports?
 

The latest video from AVForums

Samsung QN800B 8K TV Review
Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Full fat HDMI teeshirts

Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom