Speaker change QA or MA or something else?

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Thanks, that makes sense now.
Fyi I've edited my reply a bit too. Post calibration, I'd say aim for it to be somewhere between -5.5dB & -8dB (in the AVR). If you find you need/want more bass, you can always increase a few dB (via the AVR, not gain knob) - from the calibrated level.
 

DavidT

Well-known Member
Unfortunately my AVR's version of Audessey doesnt give any indication of the sub calibration until it completes.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Unfortunately my AVR's version of Audessey doesnt give any indication of the sub calibration until it completes.
I thought that'd be the case.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Unfortunately my AVR's version of Audessey doesnt give any indication of the sub calibration until it completes.

Don´t worry about what the exact figure is, just get it under -12db as Audusseys Chris K. advises. Then you can tweak the subwoofer level from couch to your liking, never need to touch the knobs again. Make sure you have phase 0 and the filter set out LFE at the back of XLS200 though.

Did you run it yet? I think 3db is good starting point to lower it. And the benefit with higher negative trim is you have more headroom to tweak it while staying negative side which is safe. So example if it comes back at -9db then lower it to -6db and put some heavy LFE movie on and listen.
 

DavidT

Well-known Member
Don´t worry about what the exact figure is, just get it under -12db as Audusseys Chris K. advises. Then you can tweak the subwoofer level from couch to your liking, never need to touch the knobs again. Make sure you have phase 0 and the filter set out LFE at the back of XLS200 though.

Did you run it yet? I think 3db is good starting point to lower it. And the benefit with higher negative trim is you have more headroom to tweak it while staying negative side which is safe. So example if it comes back at -9db then lower it to -6db and put some heavy LFE movie on and listen.
Thank you for the info, I haven't rerun Audessey yet, a job for tomorrow.
 

DavidT

Well-known Member
Rerun Audessey with the sub level turned down to 11oclock and the AVR measured -10db so turned the sub down to 10oclock and the AVR measured -7db.....
 

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Jester1066

Well-known Member
Rerun Audessey with the sub level turned down to 11oclock and the AVR measured 10db so turned the sub down to 10oclock and the AVR measured 7db.....
That's actually -7dB - which is pretty much bang on imo.

Now watch you favourite movie (that has good LFE).... If you find the bass is either lacking or too much, adjust a few dB either way in the Levels menu of the AVR itself 😊
 

DavidT

Well-known Member
That's actually -7dB - which is pretty much bang on imo.

Now watch you favourite movie (that has good LFE).... If you find the bass is either lacking or too much, adjust a few dB either way in the Levels menu of the AVR itself 😊
Thanks, I have updated my post. :)
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member

GrazzaB

Distinguished Member
I find the C350 a fantastic match to my Silver 200s, it’s an incredible centre speaker with glorious quality on vocals due to the extra mid bass driver and the 3 way design. The prices for it at Richer Sounds at the moment are an utter bargain. Re. your Silver 50s, I know MA said that the C350 was for the Silver 300s and 100s and the C150 for the 200s and 50s, but for AV I doubt there’s much difference at all, and if the C350 is supposed to be better with the larger speakers there’s still a mismatch anyway if you use the 100s, as it’s an 8” cone.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
I find the C350 a fantastic match to my Silver 200s, it’s an incredible centre speaker with glorious quality on vocals due to the extra mid bass driver and the 3 way design. The prices for it at Richer Sounds at the moment are an utter bargain. Re. your Silver 50s, I know MA said that the C350 was for the Silver 300s and 100s and the C150 for the 200s and 50s, but for AV I doubt there’s much difference at all, and if the C350 is supposed to be better with the larger speakers there’s still a mismatch anyway if you use the 100s, as it’s an 8” cone.
Totally echo this. I actually started with a front 3 of 6G silver 100's (fantastic bass from that 8" driver btw), with the C350.... Then - when the 7g silvers were announced - got a great deal on a pair of 6g 300's (brand new). The 100's are now in my bedroom system! Having the 3 way driver setup makes a huge difference to the front soundstage.
 

DavidT

Well-known Member
I find the C350 a fantastic match to my Silver 200s, it’s an incredible centre speaker with glorious quality on vocals due to the extra mid bass driver and the 3 way design. The prices for it at Richer Sounds at the moment are an utter bargain. Re. your Silver 50s, I know MA said that the C350 was for the Silver 300s and 100s and the C150 for the 200s and 50s, but for AV I doubt there’s much difference at all, and if the C350 is supposed to be better with the larger speakers there’s still a mismatch anyway if you use the 100s, as it’s an 8” cone.
Considering everywhere and everyone says that the centre speaker is the most important speaker in a cinema setup then I think it does no harm having the best centre speaker in the range. I've noticed a big difference when compared to my original QA 1000ci so I am a very happy especially for the price I paid at Richersounds.

My wife has even stopped commenting on how big it is, result :thumbsup::D
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member

DavidT

Well-known Member
Full Audessey test run today, results below.....
 

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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Full Audessey test run today, results below.....

Looks fine. You have subwoofer mode set as LFE not LFE+Main and LPF for LFE 120hz?

Also under Mult EQ menu try Flat over Reference, could sound better.

Audussety Dynamic EQ "On" if you listen more lower volume, Dynamic Volume is ideal for late night listening.

Lower the -8db subwoofer level to let`s say -4db and play some "world ending movie" that has heavy LFE use. As i said you can tweak it to your liking. If you want more grunt lower the figure, but -4db should give nice boost already. Also some movies are mixed better than others so it´s nice that you can tweak it from couch via remote without touching the knobs anymore.
 

DavidT

Well-known Member
Looks fine. You have subwoofer mode set as LFE not LFE+Main and LPF for LFE 120hz?

Also under Mult EQ menu try Flat over Reference, could sound better.

Audussety Dynamic EQ "On" if you listen more lower volume, Dynamic Volume is ideal for late night listening.

Lower the -8db subwoofer level to let`s say -4db and play some "world ending movie" that has heavy LFE use. As i said you can tweak it to your liking. If you want more grunt lower the figure, but -4db should give nice boost already. Also some movies are mixed better than others so it´s nice that you can tweak it from couch via remote without touching the knobs anymore.
I have subwoofer mode set to LFE and LPF for LFE 120hz.

I will spend some time later today testing some movies and shows.

Thanks to everyone who has commented on this thread.
 

DavidT

Well-known Member
Had a chance this afternoon to do some testing. I watched The Tomorrow War on Amazon Prime, the scene where Chris Pratt is exiting the Lab down the stairwell and goes into the street where the fighter jets are bombing the aliens :D

I was listening at -25db which is loud enough for me, with Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume off. I alternated between Reference and Flat watching the whole scene in each mode multiple times and couldn't really detect much difference, but having said that I do have a slight preference for Reference mode. Sub level of -8db in the AVR is plenty enough for me.

I am now really pleased with the results :thumbsup:
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Had a chance this afternoon to do some testing. I watched The Tomorrow War on Amazon Prime, the scene where Chris Pratt is exiting the Lab down the stairwell and goes into the street where the fighter jets are bombing the aliens :D

I was listening at -25db which is loud enough for me, with Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume off. I alternated between Reference and Flat watching the whole scene in each mode multiple times and couldn't really detect much difference, but having said that I do have a slight preference for Reference mode. Sub level of -8db in the AVR is plenty enough for me.

I am now really pleased with the results :thumbsup:

Can you do the same scene with Audussey Off and Reference as you aren´t using the Dynamic EQ/Volume so it would be ideal to compare then. It will just turn the speaker/sub correction off. I have seen it doing more harm than good as you have the lower version, but your ears would be best judge.

Don`t underestimate what few db change in the sub level could do. At least try lowering -3db which is VERY normal for most Denon owners. So from -8 to -5db.

After these i will leave you be! 😁
 

DavidT

Well-known Member
Can you do the same scene with Audussey Off and Reference as you aren´t using the Dynamic EQ/Volume so it would be ideal to compare then. It will just turn the speaker/sub correction off. I have seen it doing more harm than good as you have the lower version, but your ears would be best judge.

Don`t underestimate what few db change in the sub level could do. At least try lowering -3db which is VERY normal for most Denon owners. So from -8 to -5db.

After these i will leave you be! 😁
I only had Dynamic Volume off for my testing at "high" volume, usually I have Dynamic Volume on as I generally listen at a much lower volume, -50db to -55db, to avoid disturbing the rest of the house. I am undecided regarding Dynamic EQ on or off, I jump between modes but tend to leave DEQ off.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
I only had Dynamic Volume off for my testing at "high" volume, usually I have Dynamic Volume on as I generally listen at a much lower volume, -50db to -55db, to avoid disturbing the rest of the house. I am undecided regarding Dynamic EQ on or off, I jump between modes but tend to leave DEQ off.

I think the bass would be very anemic without Dynamic EQ with those listening levels. However i don´t know how easily the other persons are disturbed so you have to try it out, there is settings for it so try 5/10/15db, the default one could be too much.


Dynamic EQ will boost the bass if you are listening at below reference levels because of the way the human ear precieves bass the impact of bass falls quicker than other sounds. Setting it to 0db will give the biggest boost and setting it to -15db the smallest since that is where it starts to kick in, if you are above that volume level it has zero effect.


Reference Level Offset​


Audyssey Dynamic EQ® is referenced to the standard film mix level. It makes adjustments to maintain the reference response and surround envelopment when the volume is turned down from 0 dB. However, film reference level is not always used in music or other non-film content. Dynamic EQ Reference Level Offset provides three offsets from the film level reference (5 dB, 10 dB, and 15 dB) that can be selected when the mix level of the content is not within the standard. Recommended setting levels for content are shown below.
0 dB (Film Reference)
(Default):
Optimized for content such as movies.
5 dB :Select this setting for content that has a very wide dynamic range, such as classical music.
10 dB :Select this setting for jazz or other music that has a wider dynamic range. This setting should also be selected for TV content as that is usually mixed at 10 dB below film reference.
15 dB :Select this setting for pop/rock music or other program material that is mixed at very high listening levels and has a compressed dynamic range.
 

DavidT

Well-known Member
I'll give the different DEQ level settings a try this evening and adding 3db to the subwoofer level a try.
 

DavidT

Well-known Member
Can you do the same scene with Audussey Off and Reference as you aren´t using the Dynamic EQ/Volume so it would be ideal to compare then. It will just turn the speaker/sub correction off. I have seen it doing more harm than good as you have the lower version, but your ears would be best judge.

Don`t underestimate what few db change in the sub level could do. At least try lowering -3db which is VERY normal for most Denon owners. So from -8 to -5db.

After these i will leave you be! 😁
Should the subwoofer level be changed within the Audessey levels section or in the Subwoofer Level Adjust section.?
 

DavidT

Well-known Member
Can you do the same scene with Audussey Off and Reference as you aren´t using the Dynamic EQ/Volume so it would be ideal to compare then. It will just turn the speaker/sub correction off. I have seen it doing more harm than good as you have the lower version, but your ears would be best judge.

Don`t underestimate what few db change in the sub level could do. At least try lowering -3db which is VERY normal for most Denon owners. So from -8 to -5db.

After these i will leave you be! 😁
More testing this evening with sub level changed from -8db to -5db, definitely makes a difference but the jury is out on whether i prefer the extra bass.

I also tested the different DEQ level settings, for me 0db works best.

I think i could play around with different settings for days, weeks even, until I am totally settled on my setup but for now I am happy with DEQ on at 0db, DV on medium and sun level at -8db. For night time viewing DEQ will be off.
 

DavidT

Well-known Member
I think my AV receiver will be upgraded next once the prices have normalised and I might have a think if I can use the pair of redundant QA 1010i speakers in a 7.1 setup.
 

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