gibbsy

Moderator
Also anyone think that rather than an integrated stereo amp with HT bypass to run the front to speakers for music I should just get a three channel power amp to run the from three speakers from the Denon pre-outs?
All the power amp will do, as will the power amp section of a HT by-pass stereo amp, is to amplify the signal from the Denon's pre-out without any colouration. For stereo music you need to by-pass the Denon's pre-amp completely, hence the need to put all music sources through the HT by-pass stereo amp only.

Just adding a power amp is going to give the front three extra headroom which in itself is no bad thing but will not give a better stereo music performance.
 

tony cosgrove

Well-known Member
All the power amp will do, as will the power amp section of a HT by-pass stereo amp, is to amplify the signal from the Denon's pre-out without any colouration. For stereo music you need to by-pass the Denon's pre-amp completely, hence the need to put all music sources through the HT by-pass stereo amp only.

Just adding a power amp is going to give the front three extra headroom which in itself is no bad thing but will not give a better stereo music performance.

Thanks, aye I know I would just be amplifying the Denon pre-amp section but the Elacs sound like different speakers with the Denon so clearly the Denon's power output or sound signature suits the Elacs I was just wondering if even more power/current would make them sound what they evidently should sound like, I think I'm finally getting a taste of how good that Jet5 tweeter sounds.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Yes and no really, as daft as that sounds. Yes the power amp will help when the action in films demands the full attention of the Denon's own amps and a power amp will easily take on those duties releasing the Denon's saved power to be distributed to the remaining connected speakers. In other words the combination of the two means the Denon will not run out of puff and avoid clipping.

If, on the other hand, the speakers themselves are the limiting factor then the power amp will not make them sound any better. Your room, listening distance and preferred volume may make the inclusion of the power amp somewhat unneeded.

Really it's down to you. I know that having the power amp section of my Rega Elicit-R (105w into 8 ohms) doesn't make my KEFs sound any better when watching films and TV. It does, no doubt, make life easier on my Denon AV amp because the KEFs are a notoriously difficult speaker to drive. There are pros to getting a power amp with very few cons so it really is down to you and perhaps it is an itch you need to scratch.
 

tony cosgrove

Well-known Member
The monitor audio centre speaker turned up this afternoon guys I rerun audussey and the system sounds okay no doubt I’ll need to tweak it anyway here’s a photo of the new setup.

Thanks

Tony

PS, does anyone else fell a bit queasy with too much bass? I've turned the sub volume down from -10db to 18db which does help.

Think audussey set the sub volume level at -26db.

One thing that I've noticed right away with the new speaker is that dialogue is definitely clearer, I might be able to turn off the subtitles now:D


image.jpg
 
Last edited:

DavidT

Well-known Member
I dont think Audyssey can set the sub level to -26dB as that is out of range. You need to get the level to something like -5dB and then you can adjust to suit but don't adjust the level on the sub, only adjust on the receiver.
 

DavidT

Well-known Member
The monitor audio centre speaker turned up this afternoon guys I rerun audussey and the system sounds okay no doubt I’ll need to tweak it anyway here’s a photo of the new setup.

Thanks

Tony

PS, does anyone else fell a bit queasy with too much bass? I've turned the sub volume down from -10db to 18db which does help.

Think audussey set the sub volume level at -26db.

One thing that I've noticed right away with the new speaker is that dialogue is definitely clearer, I might be able to turn off the subtitles now:D


View attachment 1649018
The centre speaker does look nice in your setup, those Elacs look tiny in comparison.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
I dont think Audyssey can set the sub level to -26dB as that is out of range. You need to get the level to something like -5dB and then you can adjust to suit but don't adjust the level on the sub, only adjust on the receiver.
Agreed - @tony cosgrove - try turning down the subs volume (in the SVS app to around -20dB Then rerun Audessey. As said you want the sub volume (in the AVR settings) to read between -5 to -8dB post Audessey. You can then adjust this to taste (again via the AVR). You shouldn't need to change anything on the sub itself again.

The 4500 will actually help you set the initial volume (on the sub itself) during calibration. There will be an onscreen decibel meter during the setup. As long as the meter is in the green, the subs level is correct. If it's red turn the sub down via the SVS app.
 
Last edited:

tony cosgrove

Well-known Member
Thanks guys, I'll rerun audussey again later on today meanwhile here’s photos from the sub app the third photo with the volume at -16db is what I turned the sub volume down to last night but with the music and movie presets it’s set to -10db per the auddessy set up yesterday.

One thing that was really annoying last night was when watching Freeview channels there was a huge delay in hearing audio I did eventually receive audio in all of the TV channels but I had to switch channels until the sound appeared, I’m just wondering if there’s a delay setting been switched on cause that hasn’t happened before installing the centre speaker and rerunning the audyssey set up yesterday.

Regarding the new centre speaker, it's really nice in the room and it's solid and well made however it is pretty big, dialogue is better but it's not brilliant, we watched Mothering Sunday, which is pretty much all dialogue, on ATV 4K (21) last night and we still struggled with hearing the dialogue (there's no subs with this movie) although it was much better than with the new speaker than without a centre speaker in the system, is there some settings that can make the dialogue sound clearer, does anyone know?

The new set up ie FR-FL-C & Sub sounds great with music in multi channel mode not so good in pure or direct with just the two front speakers switched on for stereo but then again I know that's always going to be the case with the Elacs unless I buy a decent stereo integrated amp with HT bypass but I'm happy with the multichannel modes and all of the speakers on when listing to music.

Someone on another thread recommended the audussey app for tweaking frequency settings, think it's about £20, worth getting?

My intention now is to listen to the system with the new MA centre until I receive a Monolith THX centre and a pair of Monolith THX bookshelves on the 18th February and then I'll decide which speakers set up to keep but right now I'd say that for £400 the MA speakers hasn't made a great deal of difference for dialogue which is a bit disappointing to be honest but I have 30 days to return it and 30 days return with the Monolith speakers too.

Thanks Tony.




E32A610F-D850-49E9-A32E-07E5CDD65784.png03C33CB3-D01F-4D7D-837D-F7C91B1366C1.png1AE072DE-57F5-4E70-B39A-90897B2CC964.pngB50627F8-D77D-4919-90F5-747EB83740E8.png
 
Last edited:

tony cosgrove

Well-known Member
Hi guys, I've re-run Audussey and the sound/set up is much better now.

That reading on the SVS app for the volume that I saw last night is, I think, the app showing what the volume is set to at the Audussey set stage where you set the sub volume to around 75db in the green zone if I select home or movie or music in the app then it shows the sub volume at -10db which is the default volume level I think when you set the sub up initially at install.

When I set up the Denon this afternoon the SVS app initially showed the volume @ -29db but it's now showing -10db using the movie pre-set.

I still think -10db is too loud when we watch some action movie type material so I can adjust the volume on the app down to about -16db which is much less boomy.

Also I'm watching Mothering Sunday again and have the volume on the Denon at -14.0db and dialogue is much better perhaps we were listening at to low a volume level last night.

Thanks

Tony
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
When I set up the Denon this afternoon the SVS app initially showed the volume @ -29db but it's now showing -10db using the movie pre-set.

I still think -10db is too loud when we watch some action movie type material so I can adjust the volume on the app down to about -16db which is much less boomy.
Yep...

When you select the "movie" (or indeed any of the 3 SVS presets), it'll set the volume on the sub to its default - which is indeed -10dB). To solve this, I'd simply do the following:

In the SVS App:

1. Select "Movie" preset
2. Adjust the volume on the App to the same -29dB you used when initially setting it up - before Audessey
3. Click "Save" in the app
4. You can then adjust the subs volume in the Denon itself to taste.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Also I'm watching Mothering Sunday again and have the volume on the Denon at -14.0db and dialogue is much better perhaps we were listening at to low a volume level last night.
Master listening levels can snd do vary depending on the audio quality of the source being usef. For reference (in my 4.57m long x 3m) room my levels are as follows:

1. Broadcast TV (BBC, ITV etc): between -20dB & -10dB (Depending on channel).
2. 4k Bluray: -25dB to -10dB
3. Apps (Netflix, Amazon etc -15dB to -10db

These levels are with the following settings:

Audeseey XT32: Reference (0dB offset)
Dynamic EQ: Off
Dynamic Volume: Off
Cinema EQ: Off
Loudness Management: Off
 

tony cosgrove

Well-known Member
Master listening levels can snd do vary depending on the audio quality of the source being usef. For reference (in my 4.57m long x 3m) room my levels are as follows:

1. Broadcast TV (BBC, ITV etc): between -20dB & -10dB (Depending on channel).
2. 4k Bluray: -25dB to -10dB
3. Apps (Netflix, Amazon etc -15dB to -10db

These levels are with the following settings:

Audeseey XT32: Reference (0dB offset)
Dynamic EQ: Off
Dynamic Volume: Off
Cinema EQ: Off
Loudness Management: Off
Thanks again.

How do you alter the centre channel volume?

E7DA4AF7-6D62-4109-B225-618DA748C510.jpeg
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Thanks again.

How do you alter the centre channel volume?

View attachment 1649565
Press the "option" button on the Denon remote. Then select "Channel level adjust"

NB I think the Centre level is greyed out above because you are watching a stereo encoded source
 

tony cosgrove

Well-known Member
Press the "option" button on the Denon remote. Then select "Channel level adjust"

NB I think the Centre level is greyed out above because you are watching a stereo encoded source

Thanks, I sussed it, I need to play a movie before I can select the centre channel level, it was set to -8.5db so I bumped it up to -6.5db which has made a difference does it go back to where it was ie 8.5db automatically once I'm back in two channel mode or will it remain at the same level regardless until I manually change it back again?

Have to say that the sound is pretty good now even dialogue.

Certainly will be interesting trying out the Monoprice speakers when they arrive vs the current set up.

Tony
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Thanks, I sussed it, I need to play a movie before I can select the centre channel level, it was set to -8.5db so I bumped it up to -6.5db which has made a difference does it go back to where it was ie 8.5db automatically once I'm back in two channel mode or will it remain at the same level regardless until I manually change it back again?
I think it'll revert back (but don't quote me on that). I've never had to alter any of the main speaker levels - except the sub 🤣😉 (I like bass) - from their calibrated levels.

P.S if you did want to up the centre channel "globally" by 2dB - You can do it through the "audio" "Center Level Adjust" menu. Assuming you haven't done this already!

Edit: just reread your post. If you adjusted the centre via the "Audio" "Center Level Adjust" menu - it will remain at the new level, regardless of if 2 channel mode is selected.
 

DavidT

Well-known Member
Can you angle the centre speaker so that the tweeter is pointing at ear level, the centre looks like it is pointing towards your midriff at the moment. This should make quite a difference with dialogue.
 

tony cosgrove

Well-known Member
I think it'll revert back (but don't quote me on that). I've never had to alter any of the main speaker levels - except the sub 🤣😉 (I like badd) - from their calibrated levels.

P.S if you did want to up the centre channel "globally" by 2dB - You can do it through the "audio" "Center Level Adjust" menu. Assuming you haven't done this already!

Aye I bumped up the centre level by 2 db I'll see how that goes and might put it back to what it was.
 

tony cosgrove

Well-known Member
Can you angle the centre speaker so that the tweeter is pointing at ear level, the centre looks like it is pointing towards your midriff at the moment. This should make quite a difference with dialogue.
Thanks, I’ve stuck a couple of magazines under it does make a bit of a difference.

Dialogue now appears to be coming out of the TV ie right in the centre of the screen.

image.jpg
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Can you angle the centre speaker so that the tweeter is pointing at ear level, the centre looks like it is pointing towards your midriff at the moment. This should make quite a difference with dialogue.
Agreed - you can test the result with a few rolled up towel(s) under the front edge of the speaker. Before looking at a neater permanent solution!

Edit: or indeed magazines! 🤣🤣🤣
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Thanks, I’ve stuck a couple of magazines under it does make a bit of a difference.

Dialogue now appears to be coming out of the TV ie right in the centre of the screen.

View attachment 1649613
Looks good mate....

My OCD nature, would mean I'd either have to remove the black grille or get it painted white to match! 🤣🤣😉😉

Edit: A couple of these will look nicer than the magazines too:

JBER 2 Pack Acoustic Isolation Pads, Studio Monitor Speaker Isolation Foam Pads, High Density Acoustic Foam Suitable for 5" Inch Speakers for Sound Improvement Prevent Vibrations Amazon product

4th image shows the various angke combinations etc. They also help eliminate vibration through the cabinet.
 
Last edited:

tony cosgrove

Well-known Member
Agreed - you can test the result with a few rolled up towel(s) under the front edge of the speaker. Before looking at a neater permanent solution!

Edit: or indeed magazines! 🤣🤣🤣

I need about 150mm clearance to fit the speaker above the TT with the speaker just below the TV and with the TT moved back to where the speaker is so I might go down that road once I've tried out the Mono price speaker as that's the same size, give or take, as the MA centre but interestingly that speaker comes with a rubber mat and it's angle upwards too.

That cable on the left hand side is the HDMI cable from the TV to the AVR I had a cable in the wall that exits via a plate under the TV and another one below the AV unit but the cable was knackered and I've very little chance of getting that cable back in the wall trunking cause of the connector so the speaker directly under the TV and with the TT underneath should let me 'hide' that cable which will keep the wife happy:D
 

tony cosgrove

Well-known Member
Looks good mate....

My OCD nature, would mean I'd either have to remove the black grille or get it painted white to match! 🤣🤣😉😉

Aye I think it looks better with the grill off too but the Monoprice speaker is all black and I've 'suggested' to my wife that the colour of the speakers doesn't matter cause both are more or less black so I can pick the speaker that sounds the best ref dialogue there's method in my madness as they say:)
image.jpg
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Aye I think it looks better with the grill off too but the Monoprice speaker is all black and I've 'suggested' to my wife that the colour of the speakers doesn't matter cause both are more or less black so I can pick the speaker that sounds the best ref dialogue there's method in my madness as they say:)
Did you see my edit in the reply above re the Isolation Pads? (they'll be handy whichever centre speaker you go with too).
 

tony cosgrove

Well-known Member
Did you see my edit in the reply above re the Isolation Pads? (they'll be handy whichever centre speaker you go with too).

Thanks, yes I saw that.

Here's the Monoprice speaker, pretty ugly but it does appear to be a great speaker otherwise.

 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Thanks, yes I saw that.

Here's the Monoprice speaker, pretty ugly but it does appear to be a great speaker otherwise.

Yep Can't say I'm a fan of its looks either! I've never listened to any of the Momolith speakers, but they appear to be a forum favourite atm for sure.
 

The latest video from AVForums

Samsung S95B QD-OLED Review - A Quantum Leap for OLED!
Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Latest News

Amazon Prime Day 2022: 12-13 July
  • By Ian Collen
  • Published
PSB Speakers unveils Passif 50 loudspeaker
  • By Ian Collen
  • Published
Samsung Gaming Hub goes live
  • By Ian Collen
  • Published
Huawei unveils FreeBuds Pro 2 true wireless earbuds
  • By Ian Collen
  • Published

Full fat HDMI teeshirts

Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom