Speaker advice for L-shaped room

Xexets

Active Member
Hello!
I have a weirdly L shaped living room. I placed my AV system in one of the arms of the L, space is a little squeezed (size is about 3.5m width by 2.8m) - photo attached (during works in progress so please forgive the mess/perspective!). It's a 5.1.4 driven by a Denon x3600.
Currently I have:
Fronts, centre and Subwoofer: Mission M-Cube+SE M-CUBE+SE – Mission
Satellites: CA Minx 11
In ceiling: KEF CI50R

I am very happy with the setup. I live in a semi-detached and though the party wall is soundproofed I don't like butt shaking volumes and bass.
I am looking to upgrade the speakers, but I really want something compact, white(ish) and non obtrusive. This is not a wife requirement, I am the one who is obsessed with small speakers and invisible cables! Price is not an issue - as long as the upgrade is definitely noticeable, not just a tiny improvement or a simple waste of money on a nice design (which, because of my colour and size requirements is a concrete risk). Packages I am considering:

Wharfendale DX-2
Monitor Audio MASS
B&W MT-60D
All CA Minx 22 +301 sub
Anthony Gallo packages?
Eclypse 307mk3 when they come out in the uk (but not sure which sub to pair them with).

And I am very happy to hear comments on the packages/brands mentioned and hear further suggestions!
Edit PS I live far from anywhere where I can listen to these and also would prefer to hear them in my room.

1636649978066.png
 
Last edited:

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
You have good receiver which could drive speakers lot more expensive than you listed. You could keep the ceiling and surround speakers for now, so start the upgrade from front three and subwoofer so you will be putting most money where it counts!

B&W M1s without their subwoofer should be decent, but i think you could do much better... At least steer away from the fist sized speakers so you will get instantly noticeable change already with that. You have already spent big bucks for receiver, but you cheapened out with toy speakers. Hopefully you can spend now bit more, it´s likely that you will be keepin them the next 5-10years or longer if you choose wisely.

I will throw few options. Some of these are larger and some smaller. I will use the Monitor Audio as example as i`m familiar with their products and i feel they offer enjoyable sound for their price class with nice looks/finish, but you will be judge of that.

Best deal atm is the VERY soon to be sold out Monitor Audio Silver (6G) range as new (7G) came out so you are getting these for dirty low prices. I doubt you will get better sound anywhere (new) for such low prices. These would be my first pick, very ideal for the small room without being too imposing size wise. First is the 50s pair which are compact at 270 x 165 x 269 mm HWD (incl. grille & terminals). Naturally you would keep them without grills as they look best that way. These can be kept fairly close to walls and will look very nice when partnered with white stands.



Center channel is very compact all in all, but i think you need to raise your tv anyway so this would fit below on top of the av-unit, sealed design so you can place it against wall if required.






Similar level quality to Silvers but older lifestyle model called Apex would be another great option. Pearl gloss white finish. The table stand that comes with them works as wall bracket when turned, same as every other lifestyle speakers the stands do cost lot where as you with MA Silver 50 for example you can use any generic white 60cm tall stands (50-60£/pair upwards).


Center channel is wider, but low depth at 10cm. Keep in mind center channel covers over 60-70% of movies soundtrack so as you have space there on top of your unit then don´t be afraid to go forward. If you are looking that big upgrade, then this will be it. Night and day difference to that tiny fist sized toy speaker you have now there!




If you still require something smaller then the MA Radius range is the smallest i would go, this is direct competitor to B&W M1 you listed. I believe these will sound more lively with extra sparkle at the top end reported often. As long as i remember here at AVF the Radius range has been popular with members who require small size with finish that is step up from budget speakers. You have couple options with the satin white finish. Either the small 90 bookshelf speakers wall mounted with white brackets or white stands which again are not cheap.


Or slim floorstanders which are quite jaw droppers! Basically they will take same floorspace as 90s with stands roughly. You do get the extra driver in the larger cab so there is more performance with nicer looks.


For center channel there is two options. First one is better, second is slimmer and wider.



.


PS. Comment on the speakers what you think, the post got so long that i have not yet wrote about subwoofers and what you should consider instead of the speaker manufacturer choices. But i also need to know is there size requirement for the subwoofer? White front firing with white grille is possible as well as downfiring white sub so it would look more like white wooden furniture. You don´t need to crank the system like mad man to notice the extra weight/depth decent sized sub brings for blockbuster movies. I have some more compact ones in mind too if it comes to that.


Below is Radius 270 and Radius 200 in full white room to give idea of the size in room. I would still choose the Silver/Apex over these if they aren`t too large.

view


view




Radius 90 vs. B&W M1

bowers-wilkins-mt-50-monitor-radius-sat.jpg
 

Xexets

Active Member
This is amazing feedback and I am most grateful!
I did upgrade my HT system bit by bit while also upgrading the house itself and the HT did not have a permanent position until now, so I held off buying speakers until I knew where they would go! I'll be able to spend more now.
Thanks for the great suggestions I am settling now for the idea of having floorstanding fronts (but slim ones!) and bookshelves at the back and the Silvier / Radius seem to do the trick. Silver floorstanding are a bit too wide for my taste, the Radius seem about right.

Three questions:

1- Which sub would you pair with them?
2- Do you have any opinion on the Dali Oberon 5 (and 1)? These seem sleek and very highly rated
3- I found interesting that you think I should increase the TV height! At the moment the centre is about 90cm high, which would be eye/ear level with the sofa, do you think I should go higher?

Thanks!
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
This is amazing feedback and I am most grateful!
I did upgrade my HT system bit by bit while also upgrading the house itself and the HT did not have a permanent position until now, so I held off buying speakers until I knew where they would go! I'll be able to spend more now.
Thanks for the great suggestions I am settling now for the idea of having floorstanding fronts (but slim ones!) and bookshelves at the back and the Silvier / Radius seem to do the trick. Silver floorstanding are a bit too wide for my taste, the Radius seem about right.

Three questions:

1- Which sub would you pair with them?
2- Do you have any opinion on the Dali Oberon 5 (and 1)? These seem sleek and very highly rated
3- I found interesting that you think I should increase the TV height! At the moment the centre is about 90cm high, which would be eye/ear level with the sofa, do you think I should go higher?

Thanks!

The Silver 200s are quite slim when you see them live, same as Bronze 200. I think they always look larger in pictures than real life. Silver 200 is quite a bit better speaker than Radius 270, for same price! Notice this is same size as Oberon 5 roughly and i have heard the earlier version of it with Silver side by side. No contest Silvers are step up! Oberon is competing more with the MA Bronze serie so as i said earlier you don´t get as good speakers new with same price, these are normally 1k£/pair!

For movie use even more important would be the larger Silver C150 center channel (over Radius 200). It also uses 2,5-way design which is beneficial dealing certain issues with horizontal center channels. But if these are too large then you have to go with the smaller Radiuses. Not saying they would be bad in any way, just that you get better speakers for same price now (Silver) which uses better drivers and higher quality crossover components etc.

If you were to get Silver C150 then i think you need to raise tv. I don´t know would Radius 200 fit under without raising?

For movies in mind if you can handle the size then i would consider the BK P12-PR model as you can get it new grade-b for 450£ shipped roughly which is dirty low price as other made in China products (most you see in market) had to raise prises. BK builds all subs in UK and sells direct via site so no middleman. I would ask if they can swap white front grille for you.

From main site:

With white grille it would look like this:

In the 500-700£ group this sub was picked as best of bunch with movies in mind, this doesn´t include every new model in market but still gives you some idea how great bang for buck it offers!

There is also the sealed options without the passive radiator, the active driver is downfiring. This is the DF i talked about if you require more of furniture type of looks.


BK also has the narrow 28,3cm wide 55cm tall Double Gem model in full white with dual drivers. Might look massive on picture, but it really isn`t.




If we look other brands and something more compact sized then you have SVS SB1000 Pro gloss white. I`m not sure does the forum advertisers give any discount. -10% was possible month ago, but now that the prices got up i`m not sure what is possible.

PS. The dimensions for SVS are: (H x W x D mm): With Grille 342 x 330 x 375; Without Grille 342 x 330 x 352


Final option and my favourite in the 700£ region, Arendal 1961 1S. Similar to BK they sell direct to customer, this competes with products costing 1k£.




Check those and tell me which of these is close to your liking (size/price/looks etc).
 
Last edited:

Xexets

Active Member
Thank you very much, all of these are great options. The first one should not be too big as at any rate the sub it tucked on the far side of the TV cabinet, though the Double gem looks really good.

I am this close to pulling the trigger on the PeterTyson links you sent me! Dimension wise they are the same to the Dali Oberons and cost less!

One concern I have is that I won't be able to leave a lot of space behind the floorstanding speakers, they'll be like 10cm from the wall, slightly angled so perhaps 15cm. Would that be ok or would it throw everything off?
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
15cm should be ok. You aren`t going to be running them full range, crossovers set 80-100hz. They are slim and not bass heavy so that is why we see them in smaller rooms often. Of course it`s always risk buy without listening, but if you can`t visit any store then you have to take the risk. About the placement i wouldn´t push them wider than the distance from listener to speakers, try equilateral triangle (L to R to listener). Ideally center channel should be brought at the front edge of the av-unit (top), but you want things to look nicer so can keep it where you have the tiny centre now.

Not many reviews for S200, but read these below. To my ears the MA`s are very easy listen no listening fatigue. I felt both Bronze and Silver sounded more neutral than Dali Zensor (similar to Oberons).


The first sub i posted is best performer for movies with that size/price, if they can swap the black grille to white for you and you can fit it in the right front corner or between the right speaker and center channel then go for it! When doing upgrade you really want it to be noticeable as you said in first post. I feel this would be excellent trio (S200, C150, P12-PR) to take the next step and the best is you get them for very low prices vs. competition.
 

Xexets

Active Member
Great, many thanks. I'll wait until Monday, hoping they are still in stock. I would very much like to listen to them first hand before I buy anything, but that'll be difficult.

What about the silver 300 in comparison to the 200 (also G6)? They are 'just' 150 quids more at Peter Tyson, but they seem worth it - for just 2cm more width!

PS I should add that, a part from refraining from impulse buying next week we are also replacing the carpet with hardwood on the ground floor so even if I order something now I'll have to way at least a week before I can set it up and test it!
 

Xexets

Active Member
Quite serendipitously I just had a chat with a friend who has a medium sized home cinema and his speakers are precisely Monitor Audio Silver 200 + bronze C150 + bronze 100.
So I did listen to them - and they indeed sounded amazing.

I am thinking of following your advice and going all Silver 200 (or 300) + C150 + 50 plus BK XXLS400-DF since the size is about right.

I hate the idea of buying without listening first but then again... no store stocks g6 for listening (2hr radius at least), and I did listen to the Silver 200 g6 at a friend's place so...
 
Last edited:

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Quite serendipitously I just had a chat with a friend who has a medium sized home cinema and his speakers are precisely Monitor Audio Silver 200 + bronze C150 + bronze 100.
So I did listen to them - and they indeed sounded amazing.

I am thinking of following your advice and going all Silver 200 (or 300) + C150 + 50 plus BK XXLS400-DF since the size is about right.

I hate the idea of buying without listening first but then again... no store stocks g6 for listening (2hr radius at least), and I did listen to the Silver 200 g6 at a friend's place so...

Nice to hear you got to listen and see them, i feel that is always important!

MA recommends for optimal performance 30-61cm distance from front wall for S300 and 20-36cm for S200, so even if there isn´t that much size difference the smaller S200 can be kept closer to wall. However these are for 2ch listening running full range so you don´t have to panic.

@StefanBFC has the Silver 300 and C350 (below picture) and had to put the speakers closer to walls in new house, maybe he can comment. I think he uses port bungs now, but that may also rob something from the mids but for 2ch listening the bass should be more controlled. They do look quite stunning. Not sure if they would be too big - they look quite deep in picture, what Stefan and @Jester1066 says / other owners? For movies with the better Denon you have i think it will bring down the excessive bass so that shouldn`t be issue and port bungs likely not needed. I`m just thinking would they be too imposing in such small room.

img_20210405_180343-jpg.1489306


The 300 is indeed noticeably larger. 200 would be safer choice. If you were to move to new house in near future then i would pick 300 assuming you would be getting larger room and if there is music listening as that is where they shine even more.

_DSC1324.jpg



300 and 200 side by side:

silver_series.JPG
 

StefanBFC

Well-known Member
Nice to hear you got to listen and see them, i feel that is always important!

MA recommends for optimal performance 30-61cm distance from front wall for S300 and 20-36cm for S200, so even if there isn´t that much size difference the smaller S200 can be kept closer to wall. However these are for 2ch listening running full range so you don´t have to panic.

@StefanBFC has the Silver 300 and C350 (below picture) and had to put the speakers closer to walls in new house, maybe he can comment. I think he uses port bungs now, but that may also rob something from the mids but for 2ch listening the bass should be more controlled. They do look quite stunning. Not sure if they would be too big - they look quite deep in picture, what Stefan and @Jester1066 says / other owners? For movies with the better Denon you have i think it will bring down the excessive bass so that shouldn`t be issue and port bungs likely not needed. I`m just thinking would they be too imposing in such small room.

img_20210405_180343-jpg.1489306


The 300 is indeed noticeably larger. 200 would be safer choice. If you were to move to new house in near future then i would pick 300 assuming you would be getting larger room and if there is music listening as that is where they shine even more.

_DSC1324.jpg



300 and 200 side by side:

silver_series.JPG

Id agree with what Gasp says, the 200's are a great speaker for the the size, on paper they don't seem much smaller but in real life it makes a huge difference side by side.
After listening to both I mainly went for for the 300's because I wanted the three way centre c350 which MA said was the correct match for the 300's. C150 with the 200's.

If your so close, the 200's will definitely be good enough. I have the 300's 200mm away from a wall now, I've taken the bungs back out and they are absolutely fine.

What size TV do you have? I had a 55 with 300's and they buried the TV, swapped for a 65 then they looked more in proportion with the TV. Since got a 75" amd that's to me looks perfect with the 300's.

The speaker build quality though a few years old now; is brilliant.
 
Last edited:

Xexets

Active Member
thank you very much! This is very helpful. Indeed my tv is 55 and with the viewing distance I have I don’t see myself changing it for a bigger model anytime soon, unless we move! I was also tempted by the 300s for the c350 centre but after realising that I listened to the 200+c150 in a much bigger cinema room I am confident they’ll be more than enough - also coming from cube speaker I expect the change to be mind blowing - whether it is 200 or 300.
But your consideration on size and perceived size are very convincing, thanks!
 

DavidT

Well-known Member
thank you very much! This is very helpful. Indeed my tv is 55 and with the viewing distance I have I don’t see myself changing it for a bigger model anytime soon, unless we move! I was also tempted by the 300s for the c350 centre but after realising that I listened to the 200+c150 in a much bigger cinema room I am confident they’ll be more than enough - also coming from cube speaker I expect the change to be mind blowing - whether it is 200 or 300.
But your consideration on size and perceived size are very convincing, thanks!
I would get the C350 and Silver 200’s, the centre speaker is a very important speaker so get the best you can afford.
 

ShanePJ

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
I feel that almost any standard upgrade to the speakers will be a large benefit. I do however has some reservations about about going to large floorstands as you are sat quite close to where those large speakers are situation and they need a little space in order to allow them to work correctly

The one thing you do have on your side is you do have width which is one are where many people have to compromise with when using a cinema system

I would say that any speakers around the Apex, Radius or if you want to create a more neutral experience then the M&K's and then look at either one or two woofers to really bring the bottom end in.

Either one or a pair of something like SVS's SB1000 or the Pro version should be ideal in that room as bass wishes to fill the entire room and not just what you want to hear. These will also match the quality of your avr. Now for a time, you could keep the remaining speaker until you can find some speakers which you feel you really like to the look off to open the midrange of your system properly

If you did go for the radius, you could use the Radius 45 or 90's as surrounds, then three 225's mounted to the walls keeping to room looking quite minimalistic whilst bringing a good degree of audio improvement. If you are looking at Atmos, you can then either use your existing speaker as high's. If however you are looking to add in-ceiling speakers, I'd be inclined look at a .2 over a .4 as the depth of the room is quite narrow.

Going back to other speakers, yes everyone who has mentioned about getting the best you can afford is right although the best doesn't have to mean largest either as you could also use the Apex a10's for surround duties then Apex A40's across the front which will not be a million miles away from the Silver 50's for rear duties and the Silver c250 and 200's across the front end when using it with that or those SB1000 in your room.

Now the reason for staying with smaller speakers is that if you do use large speakers when you crank the volume up, if there isn't sufficient distance for the sound to travel, you may find that the rebound cause some issues and when you add a little more volume, this may just make the room noisy rather than sound more dynamic as it ought to and ultimately that's the reason I'd stay with compact speakers which are able to bring a level of quality to the room when you turn the volume up without it running into the issues sooner than you would with larger speakers

Looking M&K's, you could look at three M70's and a pair of M50's in a similar setup to the other two system. This will create a very neutral sound whilst keeping things looking compact in the room to

Now if you want floorstands at the front, just ensure you have a listen to some before purchasing and ask if you can move your seat to the distances you will be listening to at home and if you enjoy it, then please ignore everything I have said as you are buying for you and not me :)
 

Xexets

Active Member
Thank you both! Very good points. I was thinking of investing in the c350 vs the c150 but I think the c150 matches better the 200, isn’t that the case?
As for the space that’s something that indeed concerns me a little, not that I am likely to crank the volume up that much in a semi detached so I might never experience the issue. That’s also what might make listening in store a bit pointless: any speaker really would be an upgrade from what I have but unless I listen to different options in my space I won’t be able to understand how they really perform…
I already have .4 in the ceiling, I don’t think I gained much from a .2 since it’s already pretty squeezed but still the 4 tiny kefs are already in!
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Thank you both! Very good points. I was thinking of investing in the c350 vs the c150 but I think the c150 matches better the 200, isn’t that the case?
As for the space that’s something that indeed concerns me a little, not that I am likely to crank the volume up that much in a semi detached so I might never experience the issue. That’s also what might make listening in store a bit pointless: any speaker really would be an upgrade from what I have but unless I listen to different options in my space I won’t be able to understand how they really perform…
I already have .4 in the ceiling, I don’t think I gained much from a .2 since it’s already pretty squeezed but still the 4 tiny kefs are already in!

Both models would work fine with S200 mains, you don´t need to "match" them. They aren`t 100% matching if they aren`t identical speakers in first place so don`t over think it. We have members with Silver 50 mains and C350! Center channel covers like 70% of movie soundtrack so that is why you see people choosing big/best center channels they can afford/fit.

You have fairly high av-unit already and if you see the picture i posted the C350 is quite tall so that would mean tv going even more higher which you were skeptical earlier. Also as you first said the size needs to be kept small i didn`t feel the need to mention C350. See my post #9 and if you still feel you can fit it then by all means as you will surely notice the difference to C150. If you aren`t sure make a cardboard mock up with exact dimensions as that will help you visualize the size better. The cabinet is sealed so can be kept at the back of av-unit if you wish so. However C150 would be less imposing, you are coming from fist sized speakers so C150 is quite dramatic change already in size, but if you want to go all in then you know what to do! :)

@WozzaB mentioned C350 going 345£ somewhere, ridiculously low price. 😄 575-650£ new..
 

WozzaB

Well-known Member
Both models would work fine with S200 mains, you don´t need to "match" them. They aren`t 100% matching if they aren`t identical speakers in first place so don`t over think it. We have members with Silver 50 mains and C350! Center channel covers like 70% of movie soundtrack so that is why you see people choosing big/best center channels they can afford/fit.

You have fairly high av-unit already and if you see the picture i posted the C350 is quite tall so that would mean tv going even more higher which you were skeptical earlier. Also as you first said the size needs to be kept small i didn`t feel the need to mention C350. See my post #9 and if you still feel you can fit it then by all means as you will surely notice the difference to C150. If you aren`t sure make a cardboard mock up with exact dimensions as that will help you visualize the size better. The cabinet is sealed so can be kept at the back of av-unit if you wish so. However C150 would be less imposing, you are coming from fist sized speakers so C150 is quite dramatic change already in size, but if you want to go all in then you know what to do! :)

@WozzaB mentioned C350 going 345£ somewhere, ridiculously low price. 😄 575-650£ new..
£324 via Peter Tyson on Ebay using the 20% discount promotion that runs until the 18th.
C350 Peter Tyson
 

Xexets

Active Member
Aaaah! Too many discounts going around need to choose asap!!! Ok c350 would indeed be a bit too imposing perhaps c250 g7 though hardly discounted…
Important question now: I never crank the volume up too much I prefer moderate volume listening (noise monitor on my Apple Watch gives me about 56-60db sound pressure with films). Would MA silver 200s (+150 + 50) feel overbearing and/or not perform particularly well at low volumes (sorry if this is a silly question!)

Edit @Gasp3621 sorry not skeptical at all about suggestion of increasing tv height just wondered if it was because of added speaker height (which was the case) or if from the pics you thought my tv was too low for the viewer)
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Aaaah! Too many discounts going around need to choose asap!!! Ok c350 would indeed be a bit too imposing perhaps c250 g7 though hardly discounted…
Important question now: I never crank the volume up too much I prefer moderate volume listening (noise monitor on my Apple Watch gives me about 56-60db sound pressure with films). Would MA silver 200s (+150 + 50) feel overbearing and/or not perform particularly well at low volumes (sorry if this is a silly question!)

Edit @Gasp3621 sorry not skeptical at all about suggestion of increasing tv height just wondered if it was because of added speaker height (which was the case) or if from the pics you thought my tv was too low for the viewer)

If too imposing then it`s easy choice; C150 + S200 through the ebay site of PT, use the codes to get discounts for both. The new range is likely better in some areas, but the price is also very different so thinking what gives you best bang for buck it´s clear that the best time to buy speakers is now when old range is being discontinued. The new range is usually bit more refined, but no night and day differences.

Silver S200 7G - 1150£
Silver C250 7G - 600£

I believe you will get the old S200 pair under 700£ and the center C150 about 200£ mark depending of finish so let`s say 900£ give or take vs. 1750£. Ok the C250 is better than C150, but the total price is just too steep as the "old" models will no doubt blow you away!

Yep due to added height as i can´t see even C150 fitting there without raising tv.
 

Xexets

Active Member
If too imposing then it`s easy choice; C150 + S200 through the ebay site of PT, use the codes to get discounts for both. The new range is likely better in some areas, but the price is also very different so thinking what gives you best bang for buck it´s clear that the best time to buy speakers is now when old range is being discontinued. The new range is usually bit more refined, but no night and day differences.

Silver S200 7G - 1150£
Silver C250 7G - 600£

I believe you will get the old S200 pair under 700£ and the center C150 about 200£ mark depending of finish so let`s say 900£ give or take vs. 1750£. Ok the C250 is better than C150, but the total price is just too steep as the "old" models will no doubt blow you away!

Yep due to added height as i can´t see even C150 fitting there without raising tv.
Yes I think I can fit the c150 by raising the tv on the vesa mount but just about. Any more height and I’ll have to move the bracket up (no big deal but still).

What do you think about sound pressure at listening position? I mean do you think - silly question perhaps - that such speakers deliver even at lower volumes?
 

Xexets

Active Member
Clutch started slipping on my van yesterday, probably a few pounds to sort😫 I'll have to just go with the C350 for now
I messed with your clutch on purpose to ensure you don’t get the c350 from Peter Tyson before I make up my mind! 🤣
Seriously sorry to hear about the clutch
 

WozzaB

Well-known Member
I messed with your clutch on purpose to ensure you don’t get the c350 from Peter Tyson before I make up my mind! 🤣
Seriously sorry to hear about the clutch
They have a few C350 in stock, so you can "un-mess" my clutch now please!
😆
 

WozzaB

Well-known Member
Well let's see how long it takes me to decide which one to get and how quickly they sell out! HAHA
I've been trying to decide a new centre for around a month I think!
The C350 on offer seems to have made my mind up!
 

The latest video from AVForums

Sony Bravia XR A80J OLED TV Review
Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Latest News

Audioengine launches compact S6 powered subwoofer
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
What's new on Sky and NOW UK for February 2022
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Piega launches Ace Wireless speakers
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
M&K Sound launches V+ Series subwoofers
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Denon launches DHT-S517 Dolby Atmos soundbar
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published

Full fat HDMI teeshirts

Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom