1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Sound Problems HK8500 + KEF Q's

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by sjp1966, Jan 11, 2005.

  1. sjp1966

    sjp1966
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    540
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +10
    Hi

    I have a HK AVR8500 with KEF Q series speakers all round, i have set up the speaker using the micrrophone built into the remote which may not be the evry best way of doing it, but it is my only option at the moment.

    However when i play DVDs, the DD5.1 sounds fine but DTS always seems inferior, the action and music will be really loud, but the voice will be relatively quiet.

    has anyone any thought sas to what this could be
     
  2. Tejstar

    Tejstar
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2002
    Messages:
    22,501
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +995
    sjp1966 - I also have the Q series (Q4's; Q6C; Q-compacts) and am using the Yamaha 750SE to drive them. The problem that you describe is the exact same problem I have with movies. When I first got the system (just under 2 months now) I tested it with DTS encoded movies. I found that I had to really crank up the volume to hear the dialogue, if I did this then the action scenes became very neighbour unfriendly!

    I've fiddled around with the settings on the amp and find that it makes a slight improvement if I have it on midnight listening mode. I've also had to increase the centre speaker volume a few notches.

    The ironic thing is that, as you said, when watching films on DD it all seems fine. I too would appreciate if anyone knows why this is the case?

    I am beginning to think that maybe the Q6C is too weak and may opt for the Q9C.
     
  3. Jase

    Jase
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2001
    Messages:
    9,409
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    South Coast
    Ratings:
    +857
    You need to set the Channel Levels for EACH mode on the HK's (certainly on the AVR630 and other models). It's one of the most annoying features they have in some respects as you can't set a Master Channel Level which all modes take their cue from. On the other hand, it's good that you can adjust each mode to suit your taste. Ideally you need a calibration disc such as AVIA or Digital Video Essentials. DVE has both Dolby and DTS Test Tones.
     
  4. Andywilliams

    Andywilliams
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2002
    Messages:
    2,078
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    notts.
    Ratings:
    +63
    Hi steve
    Like jase says you have to set up each mode ie custom settings which is useful as subwoofer levels are different on music, dvd, and sky.Put the receiver on to dvd play a film then press test on the remote and have a look at the level of your channels you can adjust these with the remote (centre button use the cursor up and down on the remote to increase or decrease channel levels)try and get hold of a spl meter as you cant really set your system up without one.Ive never really rated the ez set on the 8500 much better to do it manually.
    Hope this helps.
    Cheers Gonzo. :)
     
  5. sjp1966

    sjp1966
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    540
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +10

    I have set the channel for each mode, in fact i called Harman KArdon and the techie guy there said the best way to do it was to play a source for the sound you are trying to adjust, i.e inset a DTS disk and wait until the AMP detects the DTS disk and then calibrate the speaker, and the same for 5.1. I was also advised that on the HK 8500 (which has a microphone to calibrate speakers) to do the SPL setting at a volume of 15, this can be loud though

    Also it is not that the SUB is overpowering, it in the front left and right, they are really loud and the centre in quiet in comparrison, even if i crank it up to +10Db which is the max setting
     
  6. sjp1966

    sjp1966
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    540
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +10
    I wonder if this is the case, i dont think so as the DD5.1 is good and DTS isnt infinately better than 5.1, the difference between the two when playing ont he AMP is so immense, it may be worth checking out though, i think i will ask the shop
     
  7. Andywilliams

    Andywilliams
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2002
    Messages:
    2,078
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    notts.
    Ratings:
    +63
    Hi Steve
    I dont suffer any of the problems your having with my amp in any mode.It sounds like it may be the amp thats at fault but then it would sound bad no matter what decoding you were using and same goes with the speaker it would sound low no matter what.Have you got a spare dvd player so you can check it isnt a problem with the dvd player outputting dts seems about the next thing to try.
    Cheers Gonzo.
     
  8. sjp1966

    sjp1966
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    540
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +10
    Gonzo

    When i set up the AMP i was advised (by HK Themselves) to put in DTS disk (to calibrate DTS of course), wait until the source changes on the front of the AMP and then run the SPL meter than is built into the remote, likewise i was to do the same process on a DD5.1 disk. I have done this and DD5.1 is fine but DTS is dialogue quiet and action heavy in terms of sounds.

    I have contacted the people that supplied me the kit and asked if it could indeed be the player at fault, i am awaiting there response.

    May i ask how you set your system up, and also at what volume level you listen to DVDs and do you have to have DTS louder than 5.1 by default anyway

    i can't help thinking that it is a set-up issue as this is my 4th AMP and i cannot beleive that i have had 4 duds one after the other, saying that although i have never set anything like this up before, i am not a completely thick technophobe and should be able to set the thing up and running properly

    thanks for you help
     
  9. sjp1966

    sjp1966
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    540
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +10
    OK i spoke initially with Harmon Kardon, they suggested that i run all the speakers as Small (which i am) and up the crossover using the OSD the 100Htz which i will try tonight and also to run through the ezysetup with the volume (paused on the DVD of course) at -5 which is damn loud.

    I then called KEF re the PSW2500 AMP as it has all these dials and switches on the back and i dont know what they do, he suggested that the imput level should be about halfway, crossver frequenzy shuold be set to MAX, as the AMP will control this, and the phase adjust should be zero (as the speakers are set to small and the fronts and backs are the same model) also there is a thing called slope and he recommends that goes to 24Bd and that the bass mode be set to music as it is a better bass and not as harsh

    i will give all these things a go, and hopefully it will imprive things, however he did say that DTS inherently has a lower dialogue and you need to crank up the volume to hear it as it was developed for Cinema and not home cinema.

    ill let you know
     
  10. Andywilliams

    Andywilliams
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2002
    Messages:
    2,078
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    notts.
    Ratings:
    +63
    Hi steve
    To get the levels right i used my spl meter on each piece of hardware.On the dvd player i ran the test tones than calaberated each speaker i didnt do this with dts or dolby digital just the set up tones on the dvd mode.I havent noticed any degradation with either dts or dolbydigital both sound great.The volume i listen at is around -10 decibels (when the wifes not in)this is very loud and more so with dts but havent had trouble hearing speech very clear as it should be when all channels are balanced.Have you had four faulty h/k 8500 that really is unlucky.Would you be able to get hold of a spl meter then you could run the test tone and then you would be certain that the centre channel is ok.
    Cheers Gonzo.
     
  11. sjp1966

    sjp1966
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    540
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +10
    So to get this right, you run the test tones from the DVD and not the AMP? and adjust DB levels from that?
     
  12. Andywilliams

    Andywilliams
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2002
    Messages:
    2,078
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    notts.
    Ratings:
    +63
    Hi Steve
    We seem to be getting mixed up,This is what i did.
    1 connect the amp to your tv so you get the on screen display.
    2 select dvd on the h/k remote.
    3 Then press avr on the h/k remote.
    4 Select osd on the h/k remote.
    5 you will then have the dvd input menu on screen, scroll down to channel adjust and press set on the h/k remote you will then have all speaker levels for the dvd input on screen ,select test tone on i then use my spl meter to balance all my speakers.Ive done this with all my hardware and it sounds great.
    Dont know if you have already done this but if you have iam really as stumped as you are.
    Cheers Gonzo.
    PS it would still be worth checking the dvd players menu to make sure dts is being outputted right.
     
  13. Tejstar

    Tejstar
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2002
    Messages:
    22,501
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +995
    Thanks for this, I'll give these settings a try on my PSW-2500 sub too :thumbsup:
     
  14. sjp1966

    sjp1966
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    540
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +10
    I went through the settings offered to me by Harmon Kardon and KEF last night. I reset the AMP back to factory default and made the adjustments on the AMP, however i had to turn down the imput select as there was too much bass at halfway.

    An interesting point is that i had crossover set to Zero (KEF Recommended MAX) and i had Phase Adjuest set to MAX (KEF Suggested Zero). I then went thought the speaker set-up for both DD5.1 & DTS and i think i may have it cracked. on DTS i had to up the centre to 7DB but the dialogue is quite clear.

    Although i need to do a full test as i could only play a couple of minutes of the disk as i was going out, but i think i will try to watch something on DTS as the weekend to see how it pans out.
     
  15. peppo

    peppo
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I do not know whether you still have problems with DTS mode because your last entry is already some six weeks old. If not, I am happy for you.

    I also have Q-series speakers connected to a AVR 8500 (2xQ7, Q9c and two eggs as rear surround speakers). When I play a DVD in DTS mode the sound is really first class and even better than Dolby 5.1.

    In my opinion the suggestion made by Jase and Gonzo really hits the spot, because when you change the channel settings in one mode, they only apply in that mode and the settings in all other modes are not changed at all. The instructions Harman gave you were only meant to ensure that the AVR was in fact in DTS mode before starting the calibration process.

    I recently checked the channel settings of my set using a SPL meter. Because I did not want to repeate this (cumbersome) process in all modes, I simply wrote down the parameters and manually entered these in all modes (Dolby Digital, DTS, DTS Neo, Logic 7, Stereo 5 ch, etc.). Doing this is also a real pain by the way :)
     
  16. sjp1966

    sjp1966
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    540
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +10
    Thanks for the reply.

    i reset them up and they are a tad better, but still not great, i know all setups are different but i would be interested what your setups are for 5.1 and dts

    Thanks

    Steve
     
  17. peppo

    peppo
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I calibrated one mode using an SPF meter and the results were that the center chanel should be set to -1 and both sattelites to +3. You could give these settings a try as well, but bear in mind that the channel set up varies with the lay out of your room.

    Good luck!
    Peppo
     

Share This Page

Loading...