Sound bar help please for older member!

Makingtrax

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I have a Yamaha YSP 3300 sound projector bar and sub woofer which is about 10 years old. But as I get older, my slight hearing loss means the background noise seems to be masking the speech. There are very few adjustments on the remote, so I bought a Polk React which has speech enhancement. But it’s given me a dilemma. The Polk is like everybody is wearing a lapel mic such is the speech clarity, but I’m losing the atmosphere the Yamaha brings. I had them set up side by side and watched some TV. Football - Yamaha is like being at the match, but the Polk is awful. Music on Sky Arts - the Polk wins hands down for clarity. Films - the Polk is unnatural, but the speech is muffled on the Yamaha.

I don’t want 2 sound bars. Can someone suggest a decent soundbar or other setup where the ratio of speech to background noise is customisable depending on the content? Any help much appreciated.
 
Have you tried manually adjusting the Centre channel settings on the YSP?

Another option is put the YSP into 3-Beam mode, which can work well if you are sitting ‘head on’.

Joe
 
Thanks Joe. I’ve pressed the beam key to cycle through the settings and there isn’t much difference. The background noise is still quite loud. It gives superb atmosphere, no doubt, but my wife and I keep saying, ‘What did he say”. We don’t say that with the Polk though, it’s crystal clear. But you miss the clinking of glasses and birds twittering etc. Just want something that I can adjust to get somewhere in between. Maybe the JBL 9.1 would be better with rear speakers?
 
I’d ensure you choose a Soundbar which offers some form of user adjustable dialogue lift.

Joe
 
I’ve just replaced my Yamaha YSP-2700 with a Sennheiser Ambeo Plus. It has a Voice button which noticeably lifts the dialogue: a button though, not adjustable. It is not something I generally use but there are some tv programmes where I might be tempted.
I’m only a couple of days into its possession so I’m yet to give it a full workout. First impressions are very positive though.
I do feel that you are probably going to have to find a local shop that has a demo room and is amenable to you bringing along a particularly irksome film/ tv programme for review. Failing that somewhere that will offer hassle free return/ refund.
Is there a film or programme that gives you particular trouble? Sometimes it is inherent in the recording itself or a consequence of downmixing for the transmission standards.
 
I’ve just replaced my Yamaha YSP-2700 with a Sennheiser Ambeo Plus. It has a Voice button which noticeably lifts the dialogue: a button though, not adjustable. It is not something I generally use but there are some tv programmes where I might be tempted.
I’m only a couple of days into its possession so I’m yet to give it a full workout. First impressions are very positive though.
I do feel that you are probably going to have to find a local shop that has a demo room and is amenable to you bringing along a particularly irksome film/ tv programme for review. Failing that somewhere that will offer hassle free return/ refund.
Is there a film or programme that gives you particular trouble? Sometimes it is inherent in the recording itself or a consequence of downmixing for the transmission standards.
Thanks. How does it compare to the Yamaha sound projector?
 
I can only comment on it vs my YSP-2700. I would say better but the difference is not great as far as I can see so early into its arrival. Given that the YSP-2700 is a very good bar I wouldn’t expect a significant difference in their performance. I didn’t buy the separate subwoofer and I could manage without one, unlike the YSP-2700 which is useless without one. However, I will be almost certainly buying one to nudge it a little further on.
As ever it is not always progress. The Ambeo remote doesn’t have a standby button: standby or eco mode is engaged automatically by the absence of input. The Ambeo does not have anything like the Yamaha MusicCast app so I must use a device to manage the playing of music (I have them).
The Ambeo has 4 built in microphones that reads the room and set accordingly. It seems to do a good enough job.
 
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I can only comment on it vs my YSP-2700. I would say better but the difference is not great as far as I can see so early into its arrival. Given that the YSP-2700 is a very good bar I wouldn’t expect a significant difference in their performance. I didn’t buy the separate subwoofer and I could manage without one, unlike the YSP-2700 which is useless without one. However, I will be almost certainly buying one to nudge it a little further on.
As ever it is not always progress. The Ambeo remote doesn’t have a standby button: standby or eco mode is engaged automatically by the absence of input. The Ambeo does not have anything like the Yamaha MusicCast app so I must use a device to manage the playing of music (I have them).
The Ambeo has 4 built in microphones that reads the room and set accordingly. It seems to do a good enough job.
I'm surprised at that. The Ambeo seems to be one of the best, and one of the most expensive bars you can buy right now. Thought it would knock spots of the Yamaha. What made you change?
My Yamaha is older than yours though and was about £800 back in 2012. I expect technology has moved on since then. I use Amazon music unlimited for all my music and the Polk React has Alexa built in. That bar is superb for music and better than the Yamaha. I've installed in the family room/kitchen open area with our second TV and it's excellent.
 
My Yamaha developed an intermittent hum which sort of pushed me into making a change which I had been thinking about for a while. It was never going to get eARC and I didn’t like that the subwoofer was covering medium pitch too. Yamaha appear to have withdrawn from the high end soundbar market.
I’m only days into using the Ambeo so I’m trying not going over the top with my comments. I’ve yet to watch a full movie and I’m thinking that getting the subwoofer might be a good idea. I could probably manage without but I suspect that on big sound movies I will feel that there is something missing.
I liked the Yamaha too for its range of connections. I can cope with the Ambeo having only 2 HDMI inputs as I have a spare on the TV.
My feeling is that things have moved on since I bought the Yamaha and the Ambeo will prove to me a good step up.
 
I have a few clicks on the subwoofer going on. I’ve reset it and changed channels but it intermittently comes back. I know what you mean about the sub woofer covering mid pitch too. Good luck with the Ambeo, I hope it works out for you.
 
Thanks Joe. I’ve pressed the beam key to cycle through the settings and there isn’t much difference. The background noise is still quite loud. It gives superb atmosphere, no doubt, but my wife and I keep saying, ‘What did he say”. We don’t say that with the Polk though, it’s crystal clear. But you miss the clinking of glasses and birds twittering etc. Just want something that I can adjust to get somewhere in between. Maybe the JBL 9.1 would be better with rear speakers?
It's not your hearing...

With the advent of modern technology, miniature microphones and digital processing and mastering, there is consistently less focus on making the dialogue clear and legible...

Check this out:

I'm by no means older, but started to watch everything with subtitles. I simply don't follow anymore.
 
It's not your hearing...

With the advent of modern technology, miniature microphones and digital processing and mastering, there is consistently less focus on making the dialogue clear and legible...

Check this out:

I'm by no means older, but started to watch everything with subtitles. I simply don't follow anymore.

Thanks. I’ve upgraded to the Samsung 930B, I guess a new soundbar every 10 years isn’t too extravagant. Lol. You’re absolutely right though. We watch Django last night and twice we said, ‘What did he say”. 😂 But the sound is very clear and having surround speakers makes a difference to movies. It’s a great setup now with our new LG OLED.
 
I have a few clicks on the subwoofer going on. I’ve reset it and changed channels but it intermittently comes back. I know what you mean about the sub woofer covering mid pitch too. Good luck with the Ambeo, I hope it works out for you.

I’m with Joe - punch up the centre on your 3300. You don’t say if you’ve tried that?

I had a YSP-2500, and no soundbar I’ve tried does the ambience quite like the Yamahas. And on mine, I let it do the room matching boops and beeps, turned on the Clear Voice setting, but I still went and punched up the centre for more audible dialogue.

You don’t have Clear Voice on your device, but you do have Enhancer. It says it’s for compressed music, but what it does is boost treble and bass. Try it and see how things sound (you may have to dial back on the bass, on the sub or wherever).

My 2500 went into the loft when we got our current setup - it was showing its age, with ARC but not eARC, and no HDCP2.2, so Planet Earth II needed a UHD player with separate video and audio outputs, video to the TV and audio to the Yamaha.

So we went LG GX, with the GX soundbar and wireless rears, and this gives us treble and bass controls, with volume adjustments for centre, rears and sub. It will more than do, but you never get that spooky Yamaha projection that puts voices mid-room, so you look to see who’s at your shoulder🗣️

I’m not sure I’d recommend the GX soundbar without the GX TV; a lot of it is the overall look of the combination. And I’m not sure I’d recommend it even with the GX TV, at full price, but John Lewis were throwing it in at half price with a discounted GX TV, so that deal was too good to miss.

So I’m not up with today’s soundbars, beyond what What Hi-Fi? tells me, which I take with a large pinch of sodium chloride 😛
 
I’ve recently gone with the Denon DHT-S316. Simple control and decent sound. Came with a sub aswell. Works well and easy to setup and use.
 
I’m with Joe - punch up the centre on your 3300. You don’t say if you’ve tried that?

I had a YSP-2500, and no soundbar I’ve tried does the ambience quite like the Yamahas. And on mine, I let it do the room matching boops and beeps, turned on the Clear Voice setting, but I still went and punched up the centre for more audible dialogue.

You don’t have Clear Voice on your device, but you do have Enhancer. It says it’s for compressed music, but what it does is boost treble and bass. Try it and see how things sound (you may have to dial back on the bass, on the sub or wherever).

My 2500 went into the loft when we got our current setup - it was showing its age, with ARC but not eARC, and no HDCP2.2, so Planet Earth II needed a UHD player with separate video and audio outputs, video to the TV and audio to the Yamaha.

So we went LG GX, with the GX soundbar and wireless rears, and this gives us treble and bass controls, with volume adjustments for centre, rears and sub. It will more than do, but you never get that spooky Yamaha projection that puts voices mid-room, so you look to see who’s at your shoulder🗣️

I’m not sure I’d recommend the GX soundbar without the GX TV; a lot of it is the overall look of the combination. And I’m not sure I’d recommend it even with the GX TV, at full price, but John Lewis were throwing it in at half price with a discounted GX TV, so that deal was too good to miss.

So I’m not up with today’s soundbars, beyond what What Hi-Fi? tells me, which I take with a large pinch of sodium chloride 😛
The Yamaha is in the loft now, as well 😂 I tried the enhancer but still felt the background noise was too loud. It was incredibly atmospheric though, the birds twittering and leaves rustling were like you were there. The Samsung I’ve bought does eARC, and the music is on another level. I’d definitely recommend the 930B, the sound immersion coming from overhead and the sides is quite spectacular. And the rear speakers really keep you on your toes when watching a movie. Still sad to see the Yamaha gone though, it served us well. 😭
 
Whilst visiting Richer Sounds to add a subwoofer to my Ambeo (!) I had a chat with the salesman (they’d just opened, only I was in there!) and he mentioned that Denon offered sound-bars with a dialogue enchanter and it had three levels of engagement (low, medium, high). I looked at the remote on-line and it had three such buttons.
the Ambeo’s dialogue enhancer is fierce and effective, but maybe too effective.
 
Whilst visiting Richer Sounds to add a subwoofer to my Ambeo (!) I had a chat with the salesman (they’d just opened, only I was in there!) and he mentioned that Denon offered sound-bars with a dialogue enchanter and it had three levels of engagement (low, medium, high). I looked at the remote on-line and it had three such buttons.
the Ambeo’s dialogue enhancer is fierce and effective, but maybe too effective.
If it’s anything like the Polk React I have in the family room, when you enhance the voice the background fades away. What you want is clarity without losing the ambience.
 
I haven’t used the Ambeo a lot in voice enhancement mode but my feeling is that all is not lost when it is switched on. I can’t speak to the Denon approach though.
 
The Yamaha is in the loft now, as well 😂 I tried the enhancer but still felt the background noise was too loud. It was incredibly atmospheric though, the birds twittering and leaves rustling were like you were there. The Samsung I’ve bought does eARC, and the music is on another level. I’d definitely recommend the 930B, the sound immersion coming from overhead and the sides is quite spectacular. And the rear speakers really keep you on your toes when watching a movie. Still sad to see the Yamaha gone though, it served us well. 😭
I’m late on this @Makingtrax. Had I got here earlier I would have recommended you go the extra step and got the Samsung HW-Q990B. I’m 70 and suffer some hearing loss too. To my wife’s annoyance, I dislike wearing my hearing aid at home so I needed the same as you…something to help with speech. I bought the 990B last year when the prices tumbled and couldn’t be happier. It consistently reviews as the best soundbar system regardless of price. I‘ve never heard the 930B so can’t comment whether it’s 70 or 90% of the 990B and if you’re happy, that’s all that counts. Nonetheless, to others reading this thread, I tried the JBL 9.1 first and it was a nice bar for movies and effects, but not a patch of the Q990B for dialogue. At the moment, there’s no better soundbar and with run out prices with the 990C coming, it’s fantastic value. Cannot see how the 990C could be twice as good based on specs so save money and get a 990B while you still can.
 
I’m late on this @Makingtrax. Had I got here earlier I would have recommended you go the extra step and got the Samsung HW-Q990B. I’m 70 and suffer some hearing loss too. To my wife’s annoyance, I dislike wearing my hearing aid at home so I needed the same as you…something to help with speech. I bought the 990B last year when the prices tumbled and couldn’t be happier. It consistently reviews as the best soundbar system regardless of price. I‘ve never heard the 930B so can’t comment whether it’s 70 or 90% of the 990B and if you’re happy, that’s all that counts. Nonetheless, to others reading this thread, I tried the JBL 9.1 first and it was a nice bar for movies and effects, but not a patch of the Q990B for dialogue. At the moment, there’s no better soundbar and with run out prices with the 990C coming, it’s fantastic value. Cannot see how the 990C could be twice as good based on specs so save money and get a 990B while you still can.
Thanks bro. I've bought the 930B and couldn't be happier with it. I think it's most of 990B but with less punch. RTINGS gave a very good rating and said it was great for music too. I got for £699 which is a good deal, considering it's £999 at Currys, John Lewis etc.Our lounge isn't that big so it's got more than enough volume. I did consider the JBL 9.1 but had no shelf to put the rear speakers on. Glad I didn't now you've said that. 😂 My hearing's not too bad, I don't wear a hearing aid but still struggle with the mumbling at times. The 930B has a voice enhancer which works very well.
 
If it’s anything like the Polk React I have in the family room, when you enhance the voice the background fades away. What you want is clarity without losing the ambience.
I heard an interesting conversation on the radio a while ago with a lady whose job it is to do post-production on movie soundtracks. She said pretty much what you say here. If the vocal frequencies are boosted it brings with them other sounds they can’t get rid of it it sounds weird. If you boost the lot, loud sounds are intolerable and again whilst it seems to the lay-person that you could reduce this and increase that, you can with the technology available, but the result would be utterly hopeless for humans listening to it.
 
It's not your hearing...

With the advent of modern technology, miniature microphones and digital processing and mastering, there is consistently less focus on making the dialogue clear and legible...

Check this out:

I'm by no means older, but started to watch everything with subtitles. I simply don't follow anymore.

Thanks for that video, I found it so interesting.

I have a good friend who has a hearing impairment and uses digital hearing aids.

As well as the annoying mumbling that goes on with "naturalistic" performances and the downmixing of 128 channels into just 2 (!), her hearing aids also emphasise certain frequencies over others i.e it's also doing its own sound mixing in real time.

I know if you artificially boost the dialogue track you are changing the sound from the maker's intent, but most films have scripts, and most scripts have words, and most words have meaning and impact, so there's no shame in either boosting the Centre channel in 5.1 (I always have) or using subtitles.
 
I heard an interesting conversation on the radio a while ago with a lady whose job it is to do post-production on movie soundtracks. She said pretty much what you say here. If the vocal frequencies are boosted it brings with them other sounds they can’t get rid of it it sounds weird. If you boost the lot, loud sounds are intolerable and again whilst it seems to the lay-person that you could reduce this and increase that, you can with the technology available, but the result would be utterly hopeless for humans listening to it.
You'd think the chief sound engineer would be assessing the dialogue in real time and understanding that it wouldn't be clear enough, either on it's own, or when other sound tracks were added later. And would be advising the director that the balance between clarity of speech and the mumbling/whispering for artistic interpretation needed to be rethought. But what do I know?
 

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