Sony's new DVD recorder

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by michaelab, Apr 3, 2003.

  1. michaelab

    michaelab
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    See here http://www.avland.co.uk/sony/rdrgx7/

    Does +RW and -RW and also records to -R (but not +R). Looks gorgeous, component outputs, dual (coax and optical) digital audio outs, basically, blows all the Philips and Panny machines out of the water (except maybe the DVD-R / HD hybrid Panny HS2).

    Hopefully that £750 price will come down to something reasonable (like £5-600) aswell :)

    Michael.
     
  2. kenfowler3966

    kenfowler3966
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    How can it blow away the panasonic when it uses linear recording and can't do timeslip?

    Its an awful lot of extra money to hedge your bet on media type, when its irrelevant anyway as all media will work in the machine you have bought, and I certainly won't be lending out my -ram discs.

    Interesting that they have only gone for the more universal and cheaper -r media
     
  3. bobbles

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    I must admit I thought that was an odd comment to make given the spec of the Sony

    EDIT - To avoid confusion I mean the thread starters comment

    One thing I would love on the Panny is component outputs
     
  4. gringottsdirect

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    Prefer a Panasonic or Philips, the Sony costs twice what it should though does look nice.
     
  5. DaveP

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    At that price I assumed it had a hard disk - wrong!

    I'll continue to save up for the HS2.

    DaveP
     
  6. CLH

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    Considered this before buying my HS2. Looks nice enough but regardless of compatability its about £300 to much IMO.

    Agree on the Panny components mind. That's why I'm buying a Denon 3803!
     
  7. Rasczak

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    Personally I can't see the point in this machine at all. A user who did buy this would still have to 'choose' between which media to invest in, i.e. -RW or +RW - in which case you paying quite a lot extra for a choice you will not really need. If they get both types of media then, in my mind, it just creates the risk of recording a programme you want to edit and archive on +RW rather than the superior VR mode -RW.

    None of the DVD recordable formats are going to disappear. All have extensive PC applications both for business and home use and all are well established worldwide in 'standalone recorders' (even -RW which has hardly made a mark, yet, in the UK). Therefore media will continue to be available for all of them meaning what is the point of paying a £200 premium for a recorder that can use different types?

    The only benefit from this is people will be able to compare the linear +RW with the VR mode of -RW and see how poor the former is.
     
  8. michaelab

    michaelab
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    Well, for me it beats all the Panny machines (inc. the HS2) because if I want a DVDR to be a DVDR and my main DVD player I want a machine with both component output and coaxial digital audio out (preferably coax and optical). No Panasonic DVDR has either of these features.

    If I want DV in (i-Link), coax audio out and component video out on a DVDR then only machine available to me ATM is the Philips DVDR1000MkII, but that's over £1000! In the build quality stakes it's also way better than the flimsy Panasonic (and cheaper Philips) models. It's probably going to be more reliable than the Philips DVDRs (which have had patchy reliability :( )

    IMO this Sony is a cheaper version of the top of the range Philips DVDR1000MkII. The fact that you get -RW ability thrown in is a bonus but wouldn't bother me either way - I'd prefer to use the superior +RW :devil:

    The fact it supports -R rather than +R is of little relevance as the end result is pretty much identical so you might aswell go with the one that has the cheaper media.

    Currently in order to acheive what I want I have a Philips DVD890 and a Toshibe SD220E player. The Sony DVDR would let me combine both machines into one - at it's current price, for a slightly bigger outlay but if the price comes down as I expect it to it will be a great deal.

    Michael.
     
  9. Duncan Harvey

    Duncan Harvey
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    I see your point but would prefer to get say a HS2 and a cheaper separate player with component out for not much more than the cost of this recorder.

    I remain completely convinced that in terms of overall quality and usability a DVD Recorder without a hard disc is fundamentally flawed.
     
  10. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    I don't like to be too contraversial but if your THAT concerned about quality why did you opt for +RW? Surely by adopting this format you are saying your prepared to accept a reduction in recording quality (due to it's inability to do a flexible bitrate) and the inflexibility (i.e. the net result is not dissimilar to a SVHS recorder) to gain compatibility with other players (presumably so you can share your recordings). Perhaps you are only concerned about sound quality? :confused:

    Clearly your requirements (one machine only, coaxial and optical out etc) mean the Sony is ideal for you but I would suggest not that many people will have these requirements (i.e. most people are quite happy with two machines - especially as it means you can watch a DVD whilst recording).

    Which is of course superior in what way? Given that -RW can be linear and inflexible like +RW or act in VR mode in a similar (but not as flexible) as RAM? Even on compatibility (IMHO +RW only feature of any use) -RW stands equal with +RW. Except of course DVD Multi supports -RW but not +RW....
     
  11. michaelab

    michaelab
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    Well, I don't really want to get into a +RW vs -RW argument again but before we get into techincal details, in terms of recording quality they are as good as identical. I would challenge anyone to be able to tell the apart in their HQ modes - or even in lower quality (2-3 hour) modes.

    Philips +RW SP (2 hour) mode is equivalent in quality to a pre-recorded DVD. SP+ (2.5hrs) mode which I use the most is (apparently) still far superior to S-VHS.

    As for VBR, the Philips machines all have CVBR. See here from the dvdplusrw.org site:

    So, yes, I am concerned about quality and it's not yet been demonstrated to me that -RW offers any visible quality advantages over +RW. What I'm most concerned about though is DVD-V playback quality.

    As to most people being happy with 2 machines, I doubt that. Maybe techo nerds like us, but not your average punter. How many people do you know who, before the age of DVD, had 2 VCRs? The only people I knew who did, had them to make copies. It's only because a lot of people already have a DVD player that people are ending up with 2 machines at the moment. IMO most new entrants into the market who want recording aswell will look for a one machine solution.

    Michael.
     
  12. Rasczak

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    This has been explained SO many times before on this forum. I'm not going to do it again but will merely say using your VBR on the +RW go forth and record a programme that is precisely 71 minutes long using a bitrate that will completely fill a 4.7GB disk. When you can do this you have a VBR setting - otherwise you have a buffer in which a few scenes are compared prior to being burnt onto the disk. Standard video mode -RW has this same feature but doesn't call it a VBR because, quite frankly, it isn't.

    Your missing the point - the HQ mode on +RW machines is as good as XP on RAM machines or -RW machines BUT what you can do with that recording on a +RW machine is very, very limited.

    No one said it wasn't. All DVDRs (bar Pioneers) have RGB in meaning obviously it's going to be better than SVHS. But technology wise, i.e. in the formats core compabilities, +RW is not really much different to a VHS cassette (which is a lot more compatible than +RW!).

    But, I assume, we *are* techno nerds so would want the best quality. Sure you average joe who walks into ASDA and decides it's the ideal place to get a DVDR probably isn't that concerned if it's the best - and that's the person to whom +RW suits.
     
  13. kenfowler3966

    kenfowler3966
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    Surely you could get the equivalent with an E30 or E50 and buy a toshiba dvd player for much less than the sony, ending up with a much more versatile system

    I dont use the digital out on the dvd player as I use my trusty tosh 210 with its optical and component connection to the tv for the best quality playback. I even use it to play back the dvd-r's I have made on my HS2 for simplicity, and the options and controls for playback are much better with the tosh remote.

    If you use it in this way the optical out on the recorder is redundant as there is no optical in so no recording made is good enough sound wise to actually need it.

    The other advantage is convenience as you can still record that program you wanted to see whilst showing a dvd movie with the dedicated player, and no doubt with the right connections between the 2 record a backup dvd as well
     
  14. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    I do exactly the same kenfowler - I use the HS2 for recording and a Toshiba 210 for playing. Largely because my HS2 is normally too busy recording stuff to waste time actually playing DVD-videos.
     
  15. PhilipL

    PhilipL
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    Hi

    Do not forget that DVD-RAM and DVD-RW (apart from being able to use the full capacity of the disc using flexible recording modes) have intermediate DVD resolutions. While the Philips +RW drops from Full to Half DVD resolution as you extend the recording time, the Panasonic and Pioneers (Sony as well on DVD-RW) play nice and drop you through two higher intermediate resolutions.

    Better quality as a result.

    Regards

    Philip
     
  16. numskull

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    This is very interesting. I am hoping, beyond hope, that the Sony, when it is released will be far more reliable than the Philips 890 I returned to Richer Sounds this morning - four months old and perhaps 60 DVD's recorded/played in that time - pathetic in my opinion for a £450 piece of kit. The problem I have is that we now have 30 recorded DVD+'s that will play in our Toshiba 420, our son's PS2 but nowt else. I, like most people I'd assume, have the main machine in the living room; the main machine WAS the Philips. Yes, the Tosh will play the +RW's (not +R's) but the AV cabinet is already full of kit - and why the need to have a player and recoder? So, as I said, I HOPE the Sony will replace the Philips as the main machine as it will playback the +RW's, can record on them and we can make the move to cheaper -R's, which possibly may play in the three other DVD's we have - the priority, for us, is the reliabilty, as well as the practicality. Oh yes, the four month old Philips WS9527 is also in the repair shop - with a failed tube! Methinks this will be returned too!

    Num
     

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