Sony's 3D camcorders biggest down fall...

Discussion in 'Camcorders, Action Cams & Video Making Forum' started by Martin68, Aug 31, 2013.

  1. Martin68

    Martin68
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    I own a Sony 3D camcorder HDR-TD20V which i'll be selling on soon because of the biggest problem i'm having with the lack of compatible removable media to archive the 3D footage onto.

    3D blu-ray is the obvious choice, but with the format only supporting 24p and the camcorder shooting at 50i, this makes a terrible jerky finished blu-ray which is not enjoyable to watch.

    the other option is 720p 50i 3D blu-ray but why should i have to put up with a drop in resolution if the original footage is shot at 1080? on a 120 inch screen this is noticeable.

    avchd blu-ray discs only allow for side by side so again a massive drop in resolution.

    Clearly Sony never thought this through when designing their 3D camcorders or the Blu-ray format in the first place.

    There seems to be no other way to archive this 3D footage in original quality apart from HDD's which is too un-practical for storing on a shelf with the rest of my library of discs.

    I'm very disappointed in this as i was hoping 3D camcorders were as compatible as 2D ones for disc archiving.

    your opinions would be greatly appreciated
     
  2. 12harry

    12harry
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    Are you using Sony Vegas Movie Studio?

    From v11 it was suitable for 3D - but with v12 only abt £35 for the Suite version (Az) it might be worth trying before selling.
    Never tried 3D but you might like to check out Forums on Sony-creative website. (perhaps do that first, if you haven't already.).


    Which model do you have ? Are you happy with the 3D images in the LCD, or is that one side only?
    Good Luck.
     
  3. Terfyn

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    Virtually all the current crop of video editors will handle 3D. Pinnacle Studio 16 or VideoStudio Pro X6. BUT you need all the supporting equipment and formats to handle it. A new TV, glasses, Blu Ray etc., a major outlay.

    Sell your camera, bank the money and wait at least a year to see if 3D becomes the way forward. There are so many advances in 2D quality at the moment, it may be the preferred option. I remember the VHS Vs Betamax wars in the analogue days (Incidentally Sony invented Betamax and JVC invented VHS) and we all know what happened to Betamax.:laugh:

    My Sky system still only has one 3D channel out of N hundred channels they broadcast but they do seem to want to increase the number of HD channels available. If 3D was going to flourish, demand would have increased the number of 3D over the (still increasing) number of HD channels. Is there a lesson there?
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
  4. rogs

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    Whether it was the original specification process that was wrong, or whether it was simply that the advance of HD video formats was much faster than Sony imagined, Blu-ray is now a seriously flawed product.

    With only 24p as a native progressive format for 3D, and 1080 at 50p or 60p not being part of the official Blu-ray spec, using Blu-ray as an archiving medium is going to require you to drop quality, if you use modern HD video formats.

    Although commercial (pressed) Blu-ray discs clearly remain important for film release for the foreseeable future, I cannot see recordable (burnt) Blu-ray as anything other than another 'Betamax': An interesting footnote in the history of consumer video.

    Storing HD video on other media -- USB memory or HDD for example -- is much more flexible.
    Even my PVR will play 1080/50p footage easily and effectively, directly from a USB stick!

    I'm afraid 3D will also fade back into the background (as it did with all it's earlier incarnations).
    The BBC have already announced they are dropping it for example-- and the two age old 3D problems remain. Namely, people's dislike of wearing the glasses, and the large number who complain of headaches soon after the initial 'wow' factor has worn off. (After about 10 minutes then! :) )

    Difficult to know how best to archive your video for best effect. Archiving of the original video could be on any digital data storage medium. It can then be transferred to any appropriate medium in the future, for replay through whichever device is then popular, with no loss of quality.

    Not sure that Blu-ray players will still be available in, say, 20 years time? Certainly I'm now transferring all my CDs to solid state media, for example, rather than looking for a new portable CD player.......
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
  5. 12harry

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    Oh dear, that doesn't look good for 3D then.....

    Incidentally I thought that technically Betamax was the better format, although the R/Players had an Achillies heel in that the heads didn't withdraw during fast-wind (but that did make finding clips easier!- DYOR).

    Sony invested in Hollywood's back-catalogue and Studios, so they can control the formats used in Distribution - I believe this was a direct result of that Betamax fiasco, - but then we moved into Digital
    . . . so it seems odd that they got it wrong with 3D - but maybe S just didn't see that coming???

    3D may well come of Age, when a suitable display is available - probably in the next 5-years, but then we have been waiting for new Traction Batteries for Cars (for the last 50 years?) . . . and so far Zippo.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
  6. Terfyn

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    To be fair to Sony, they have always tried to lead and be innovative. Often it works (I remember the fantastic colour TVs Sony produced) but sometimes another company produces a better solution. 3D may be their "Clive Sinclair" moment!
     
  7. rogs

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    I think it's not just Sony who are going to have a 'Sinclair' moment with 3D.
    Many companies don't seem to be making much of a fuss about it any more.....

    I think Sony's real 'Sinclair' moment was probably Elcaset

    I nearly bought one in the 1970s.... looked to be a major improvement over the standard cassette, at the time, but it never got anywhere......
     
  8. Terfyn

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    Going completely off subject but the Elcaset reminded me. What happened to the minidisk?
    I still have my Denon minidisk recorder/player. It was bought as a "distress" purchase. I had played and recorded a series of backings for songs used in the local Am Dram Panto. They were recorded on DAT. (digital tape) During the first performance, I lost my way with the song sequence and chaos ensued. My name was mud!!
    I re-recorded on to MiniDisk and, with its easy track sequencing - just a knob and a number - I restored my pride and the panto was a success!

    Both MiniDisk and DAT were invented by (you guessed it) Sony!! (Perhaps this suggests why my camcorders are Canon and Panasonic)

    Is DAT still going?
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
  9. MarkE19

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    I was using it in my job for backups of servers etc until about 10 years ago. A friend who is a musician had all his backing tracks on DAT and still has them as his backup. But I doubt there is much DAT still being used regularly.

    DAT was meant to be replaced by the Sony minidisc and the Philips DCC (anybody remember that :p ) which my friend also used for a while.

    There have been many good products that have failed to make it in the consumer market over the years from many companies, so I think it is a little unfair to point too much at Sony - they have come up with some good inventions, as said their CRT TV's were unbeatable for years.

    3D in a camcorder I would tend to see as a short lived gimmick, but more stable & long term in cinema - although I think it has peaked for now and will decline a bit until they get the screens that don't need glasses working well.

    Mark.
     
  10. ricksteruk

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    cyberlink powerdirector can output your 3d videos into various3d format including a few bluray formats and includes full 1080p for active 3d devices, also full 1080p SBS not as widley used as standard SBS where resolution is lost.
     
  11. emporer

    emporer
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    It was the reason I parted with my Sony TD10, I loved the quality it produced but having to use Vegas to create a 720p disc is a bit deflating, a 1080p24 mode would have been much simpler. Sony made another cock up also with the Avchd 2.0 spec, while it will allow the creation and playback of 1080i50 bluray discs in 3D via their own bluray decks you are stuffed if its connected to a non Sony display, it automatically downscales it to 720p unless connected to a Sony 3dtv.

    One would think they would do as much as poss to make the device as friendly to as many people as poss and not just those with Sony tv's.
     
  12. 12harry

    12harry
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    You don't say which software version you are using, so it's possible any irksomes have been fixed by now . . however, restricting viewing to their own TV's seems a little harsh . . .could this be fixed by now, I wonder?

    Manufacturers have a thin Marketing-line to tread - if they make their new tech available to all, then it's possible the quality will be compromised sufficiently to kill the consumer demand.
    + I mean, you wouldn't expect the new tech to be really bad on their own kit, would you? - SO is it possible the alternative 3DTVs have a spec that doesn't align with the best-quality the camcorder can produce . . . and it is the TV that's making the choice to switch to 720?
     
  13. emporer

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    Nothing to do with it at all, all 3dtv's pretty much adhere to the same spec and guidelines.

    It's the usual Sony thing of being restrictive, much like Apple and after the last 6 years of going through 4 Sony cams I think I will be looking elsewhere when I upgrade next.
     

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