Sony W9: Strange effect on dark scenes....

Paul MC007

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Hi there


I wonder if anyone has ever come across or noticed this phenomenon before?


I have currently a 55” Sony W9. Prior to this I had a Sony NX723 and EX723 – exactly the same ‘issue’ has been noticed on all three sets, so I can’t imagine this is fault with my current TV.


When watching Freeview HD (not sure about SD), if there is a predominantly dark scene displayed, sometimes, when people move about within the dark scene, I get like a ghost image or shadow within the black area’s of the picture – it’s very hard to describe – almost like, for example, if someone moves within a darker area, it leaves an “imprint”. It’s the same sort of thing as when a pc gets stuck and you can move a box around the screen and it creates multiple outline images….if anyone knows what I mean??!!!!


I only notice it occasionally and also really on BBC HD channels – so it’s certainly not all the time.


I just wondered from my vague description above if anyone knows what I mean and if there is any way to combat this – as I say – pretty sure it isn’t the TV as I have noticed this on 3 x different models – albeit Sony’s….


Cheers for any advice
 
Crushed blacks?

I could be wrong but possibly your contrast is set too high or the brightness is set too low?

Hopefully someone might come along who knows exactly what the problem is and how to fix it.
 
How big are these imprints Paul? And how long do they last?
I've not noticed anything unusual, so I'm guessing. Two things come to mind from trying to understand what you mean, which I don't if I'm honest.:)

It's interesting that you only mention Freeview. Other sources are OK I take it. I assume it's not an aerial fault/misalignment??

If they are very fleeting doubled up edges, it may be normal. Would motionflow set to smooth solve it?
 
Can you post what picture settings you are using.
 
Hi there - many thanks so far - my settings are as follows (and I know some of them will be perhaps a little odd - It's just what I seemed to like when I was tinkering with them one day and decided to keep them!) - but any recommendations would be appreciated - especially if it helps with my scenario in the opening post....

Picture Mode: Standard
Scene Select: General
Backlight: 9
Contrast: 92
Brightness: 50
Colour: 46
Hue: 0
Colour Temperature: Neutral
Sharpness: 70 (daresay this is too sharp I know...)
Noise Reduction: Auto
MPEG Noise Reduction: Auto
Dot Noise Reduction: Auto
Reality Creation: Manual (not sure about this - as in should be on 'Manual'?)
Video Detection Area: Off
Resolution: 40
Noise Filtering: 40
Smooth Graduation: Medium
Motionflow: Standard
Black Corrector: Off
Advance Contrast Enhancer: Medium
Gamma: + 2 (too high??)
LED Dynamic Control: Low
Auto Light Limiter: Off
Clear White: High
Live Colour: Low

All the White Balance are default - I've not touched these....

The problem I mentioned about the Black areas and sometimes people or objects when moving within the picture leaving an "imprint" will last until the next scene or camera change - the "imprint" will last in the black area until the camera switches to another camera or the scene changes. Even if the next scene change is dark, the previous ghost image or "imprint" is then gone completely - I suppose it can look a little like plasma image retention I guess....but it definitely goes away immediately the camera or scene changes.....

As I say, it's not all the time - in fact, often, not at all - it's just sometimes I notice it (particularly on Freeview HD channels but not sure if it is limited to just this) and it's quite annoying! On recordings with this issue, it seems to be on the recording, so not something the TV is doing at random - and - as I say - I have noticed this on 3 x different Sony sets recently - mostly set with the same type of settings I guess...

Any help appreciated!
 
For a start I'd adjust the following items as noted below and greatly reduce the sharpness setting: It likely is purely causing ringing anyway rather than adding any real detail (try a test disc and look closely at white/black borders and you'll see what I mean).

Colour Temperature: Neutral (try Warm or Warm 2 as this is likely to be closer to 6500K)
Sharpness: 70 (daresay this is too sharp I know...) as above, far too high, 10 or less is probably still causing ringing.
Noise Reduction: Auto OFF
MPEG Noise Reduction: Auto OFF
Dot Noise Reduction: Auto OFF
Reality Creation: Manual (not sure about this - as in should be on 'Manual'?) OFF
Resolution: 40 0
Noise Filtering: 40 0
Smooth Graduation: Medium OFF
Motionflow: Standard OFF
Black Corrector: Off
Advance Contrast Enhancer: Medium OFF
Clear White: High OFF
Live Colour: Low OFF (it is over saturating the colours so making it less accurate, though OFF might seem a little 'flat' at first it will be more accurate).

The gamma set to +2 is also likely to be raising shadow detail too high which will exaggerate noise in dark areas as well as washing out brighter scenes.

You'll notice that most of the 'advanced' features are what I've suggested should be turned off. IMHO (and I've seen Pro calibrators say similar things) is that they are un-necessary and if anything spoil the image with processing that shouldn't be required and may well be causing the odd effects you mention. You might also notice that if you have 'Theatre' mode then it will turn off most of the above anyway which shows what Sony think makes an accurate picture. ;) When I measured my Sony EX703 Theatre mode was fairly close to accurate once I'd done the basic setting up of contrast and brightness, so IMHO probably the best option if you haven't got calibration equipment anyway.

At the very least give it a try for an evening and see how you get on. You may find you like the extra sharpness of reality creation, so maybe worth trying this separately (I've only small experience of this on projectors). You might also prefer the effect of Motionflow on a low setting though personally I prefer it off on my kitchen TV that has it.

Hope that's of some help.
 
Just to add to what Kelvin said, Gamma = 0 and Backlight = 5 are good starting points.
Insanity posted his settings somewhere in this thread. They are pretty damn good.

Hope it solves the issue.
 
Certainly as above and the advanced features really don't do much for the picture.

It looks like you prefer a pretty bright picture but try reducing backlight a little, I have mine set to 5.

I started off using Cinema mode and adjusted from there. It may look a little dull at first but give it a couple of days to let your eyes get used to.

In the end though it's what you prefer as everybody has their own idea of the perfect picture.

Dave.
 
I'd turn all the noise reduction options OFF OFF OFF! That's three different layers of processing which are fudging the temporal resolution something chronic, and with the gamma at +2 and backlight at 9 you've got a VERY bright, contrasty image which is also doing that 'retention' effect no favours either.

I'd also dial down the two-step Reality Creation, and with the Motionflow on top you've actually got SIX different noise reduction/image processing doohickeys running at the same time, so it's no wonder you're getting all that weirdness.

For the Reality Creation I use 8 for resolution and 0 for noise filtering (on my 55X9) because it's brilliantly sensitive, dialling out the highest frequency noise but keeping all the detail and not exaggerating the sharpness. Sharpness itself should be at an even 50; any more and you're overcooking it, any less and you're softening the detail.
 
Thanks for all your suggestions so far....gonna try them out a little later...

Yes, I suppose I have always liked a "bright" picture (which is one of the reasons I didn't get on with plasma) but I will play about with the settings again based on the above recommendations.....
 
All good advice. If memory serves me well with my W9 it's the settings by @KelvinS1965 that are about right. I gave it to my son four years ago and it's still working so a reliable unit.
 
Wow, this is an old thread but I can confirm that it's some kind of bug in Sony's X-reality processing and iirc only happens when the Adv Contrast Enhancer is activated in any form. This odd behavior unique to Sony.
 

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