Question Sony VW500 Questions

Ellisdj

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I have been getting my room sorted in terms of blacking it down best I can, now I want to look to get my VW500 looking the best it will in here.

I have been using Reference setting, D65 and 709 colour. I have set brightness and contrast using patterns and have the aperture open to 51.

Next I want to align the panel / pixels -This is my first projector -how do I do this?

I assume I display a certain pattern and adjust so that text is crisp with no colour added??
Thanks
 
Second question - I have set my overall iris brightness by eye and want to measure this and maintain this over the bulb life span.

There are quite a few light meters on amazon for between £20 - £40 I assume these will all be ok?
 
I've not used one of those light meters but usually for the purpose of measuring lumens and contrast it's better to get a photopic light meter like a Tecpel 531 as it sees light in a similar fashion to the human eye. It's more expensive (around £60) but should be more suitable.

Having said that, I've not compared the two to see if it's just as good at measuring the lumens for the purpose you want. If that's all it's being used for, it seems overkill to buy a photopic meter over one that will read the same for white level readings.

Ideally someone with both could give us a definitive answer, but i don't know anyone who has done that.

Gary
 
I can stomach £61 if it will do the job forr a lifetime, better to pay £61 now than £40 then and then £61 after when £40 is no good for I might need in the future. That is the one Allan at ideal recommended to me before - thanks Gary.
Anytips on usage - i.e. certain setting needs to be on? I assume I measure a full field 100% white pattern to get the brightness as the level needed - or do I just need a 10% window like a calibration?
 
The way most of us (with meters) do it here is to project a 100% full white field with the meter against the screen and aimed at the pj. I think you're looking at something like 150 lux to be at around 14fL on a unity gain screen (no gain) which is the DCI spec. I used to aim for 12fL with DVD material as brighter would enhance compression artifacts or other image noise, and let it dim down over time. Maybe not ideal, but certainly cinematic IMHO as many theatres run at maybe 9fL to try and save the lamp and electricity (though how effective that is I don't know). probably the wrong way to do it as I was emulating a 'bad theatre', but it looked like cinema and not tv doing it that way (too bright looks too digital, and too much like tv/video).

Divide the lux by 10.764 to get the reflectance level in fL, then multiply by the screen gain.

Gary
 
That's a pain - there were three or four identical light meters sold by different companies, just with different colour cases. One was an Extech IIRC, another was Robin (RT-24) and the one I have which I can't recall the name of... Unfortunately Ive no idea what current light meters there are that replace them.

You could always drop tecpel an email to see who may stock them in the UK unless someone has found a similar alternative.

Test and Measurement instruments - Tecpel Taiwan

Gary
 
Cheers Gary I did a quick test using my phone and it came out approx 18ftl. So a bit hotter than reco

What I have noticed is that on a full field 100%white the left side seems distinctly more cream than white.

If I engage clear white it improves but it's still very much whiter on 1 side

Is this an issue with the alignment of the pj to the screen?
 
There are a few light meter apps out there, but I don't know if any of them are accurate or have been compared to calibrated meters. It's possibly not a million miles away from what you need it for tbh - a couple of fL here or there probably isn't going to make a great deal of difference to you in the scheme of things, but it will allow you to track the lamp as it dims and make any adjustments with an iris to keep it there.

There was a time when white field uniformity for SXRD and DiLA was a bit of an issue, but I though that was pretty much a thing of the past now. You can get a difference in luminance levels betwee the center an edges, though not enough for it to be an issue, but you shouldn't get an obvious colour shift as far as I'm aware, and alignment shouldn't be the cause. Some screens have a colour shift, but I would have thought it would be uniform.

Maybe some other owners or dealers can comment? Maybe one has one to hand they can check with a colorimiter to see if there is an obvious difference or if you have a problem.

If you get a new piece of A4 paper and move it from one side to the other, is the colour difference still present? If you use the lens shift does it change?

Gary
 
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I have a seymour av uf screen which is colour neutral

I just ran the auto calibration pre check.

That shifts the screen up and it's still noticeable I will check side to side.

I don't have the pj perfectly aligned the mount I am using is shat I am going to build a shelf when I get time.

It's not obvious for content but very obvious on the white test pattern
 
if you don't get much response here, it might be worth a look over on avs to see what they have to say. I would think there was a much larger user base there.

Gary
 
That's a bummer, but at least you know there's a problem now and can get it fixed.

I just had a thought - are you using a test disk with the white and black level (contrast and brightness controls) set correctly before using the full white test pattern on the same disk before taking a reading, or are you using patterns from the projector?

Gary
 
Hi Gary

I have been using them from a test disc but when I selected the auto calibration pre check it brings up some small windows and even on that it's very visible.

Thanks for the help.
 
Sorry, I wasn't clear - I meant using the test disk patterns for your fL measurements, rather than directly from the pj. Measuring the pj test patterns rather than from the test disk may give you a higher reading as it's not measuring the video chain, so when you then watch a movie, the video will be projected at a lower fL.

Gary
 
How reliable is the ftL reading from something like an x-rite i1d3 colorimeter, off-screen? I would have though reading off-screen would be preferable to assuming that the gain data for the screen is accurate. The gain data might not even exist if you are using a home made / painted screen.
 
I agree - the reflectance level is in one respect a more accurate measure because you are reading what is being reflected off of the screen rather than from calculations and assuming (I think) a perfect reflector. But where do you put the meter? An inch from the screen, a foot, a meter? The main seat? All will give you a different fL figure (the further away, the lower the reading), plus I've found that a lot of the colorimiter meters didn't seem to give the same readings as a dedicated and calibrated light meter, so I've always found them a bit suspect in that regard.

Some screens have been measured and compared to a Stewart Studiotec 130 material (which was accurate at 1.3 gain) so those screens can be used with those gain factors, as can others that have been independently measured, but as you say, calculating for an unknown such as a painted wall is always going to be tricky.

If you have a known surface such as a piece of ST130 material, and can compare that with an unknown you'll have a reference to compare to, assuming the meter and method of measuring are accurate.

Gary
 
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I've been looking into the above, and you need a particular type of meter that can take a reading from where you sit (for example) and it will give you a reliable reading.

Meters like the Minolta L110 or L100 will do the job, but they're nearly a thousand pounds each, so I'm trying to find what meters will do a similar job at a more affordable price. It won't be as accurate, but hopefully good enough for hobbyist use like we will use it for.

If I can find an affordable one, or someone who has one, I'd like to see how the light meter I use along with the calculated method compares with a direct reading using a meter designed for it. I'm hoping it will give similar results, or just need a simple conversion factor.

Gary
 
I calibrated the VW500 for the first time last night only grreyscale - this is my first PJ Calibration - done a lot of TV's

I managed to get a nice greyscale DE with decent gamma tracking at power 2.4 but not as I would like - so will be revisiting to see if I can improve on this

I used 10% patterns
I placed the meter with the shadow below the pattern but I placed the metre close to the screen to try and get an accurate reading.

Since I have seen a picture of someone with the metre on the viewing seat not close to the screen - that seems to make sense as it will be where I will be watching from.

Is this right - should the metre be away from the screen or close?

Also I couldnt find the colour CMS controls - is this under colour correction option???
 
I think I've the answer to @jfinnie earlier question - apparently the i1 ID3 should be good enough for fL readings - I asked over on avs what affordable meter that was gd enough for hobbyist use could be used for direct fL readings and that was the answer i got. I need to get new calibration hardware and software soon anyway, so I'll be paying RickyJ a visit sometime next year.

I'm a bit rusty on calibration, but if calibrating from the screen, I would have the meter close to the screen rather than further away. Depending on the meters sensitivity, further away could mean less reliable readings for the low IREs, so nearer would be better for getting more light from the screen, as it falls of at the square of the distance IIRC.

Maybe someone with more recent calibration experience will chime in though.

Gary
 
Thats exactly what I thought - hence why I had the metre close but would love confirmation - its an ID3.
I went for power 2.4 gamma and neeeded 2.6 gamma selecting
I went with 16ftl target uising 10% 100ire window = needed 80 on brightness (lens control) it was a lovely greyscale cal all below 1 DE

It looked amazing after but it was just a bit too bright for me which I was gutted about because I would have loved to have kept it
 
Thanks, I have the i1d3 unit; but no other gear and limited experience, so wasn't sure if the values it pumped out meant much. I generally have the i1d3 about 20-30cm from the screen. The fL results seem repeatable for the same meter placement (haven't fiddled about much with different distances to the screen, kit is in the cupboard at the mo) , it is just the absolute accuracy I wondered about.
 
I'd be interested to know what it says depending on distance from the screen. I remember doing that with a colorimiter some years ago (10?) and it read less fL the further back the meter was placed, which is why I've not trusted them since.

I've been told it's reasonably accurate for what we want it for - I asked with reference to the Minoltas that are around £1000 and the i1D3 was the reply, so although it may not be quite as accurate, it should be good enough for the likes of us.

Gary
 

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