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Sony VW11HT or not?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by sijones, Nov 5, 2001.

  1. sijones

    sijones
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    Does anyone know how much better the Sony VW11HT is compared to the VW10HT?

    Is it likely to be better than the Sim2 HT200DM?

    Are there any other projectors I should consider for around the £5k mark?

    Many thanks,

    Steve Jones
     
  2. ROne

    ROne
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    the tosh Mt-7 can be had for around £ 4000 or less, its a true 16:9 panel, has digital gamma correction for lower light scenes.

    component, s-video and composite inputs.

    Its has good colour, good blacks when coupled with a grey screen. A claimed 400:1 contrast ration which sounds average but I doubt the sony 11 will get to the claimed 700:1 anyway.

    the scaler and de-interlacer inside are pretty good but not brilliant.

    I have watched 75 hours worth of films on it including dark ones and I can tell you I feel I am giving nothing away to the cinema.

    plus I know nobody else with one and i could do with a tosh buddy!
     
  3. Guest

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    I took a demo of a 10HT a few months back and was on the verge of buying when I got to hear about the imminent launch of the 11HT. I was prepared to wait and see if the claims of 'twice the level of black' were true and if the rest of the improvements weren't hot air. In readiness I've invested in a Toshiba SD900E to accompany my Dennon A1SE and recently had a 7' Stewart Greyhawk screen slotted into the ceiling. I figure that a mix of better black performance from the 11HT plus the Greyhawk screen will make any issues with black levels fairly academic.

    Those nice guys at xxxxxxxxxxx (sorry I'm keeping that a secret for the moment) have an 11HT coming in this Wednesday and I'm booked in for a demo. If all goes well I'll make them an offer for their demo 11HT there and then. Rest assured I'll be back here with my impressions of the PJ.

    Stay tuned.
     
  4. JohnAd

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    ROne

    I'm also looking around for a 16:9 proj but am worried about the refresh rate problems.

    I noticed some old posts of yours over at AVS. Did you ever resolve the issues with the MT7 and get anything other than 60Hz to work with an HCPC.

    I'd like either 48/50 or 72/75 to work without tearing.

    John
     
  5. ROne

    ROne
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    JohnAd,

    yes i did resolve them but unfortunately it seems that no matter what refresh rate you run the computer in (the mt7 is capable of locking to virtually any refresh rate) you will get some form
    of tearing.

    Although I have had no help from toshiba (england, america, japan, none of them seem to be bothered or no anything about their products) I have come to the conclusion that you cannot play video through the RGB from a computer without tearing.

    I wouldn't reccomend anyone would put up with the tearing, even though you can minimize it at 60hz were the tearing becomes stable. You can run the projector at 75hz for pal and 72hz for NTSC without any problems other than this.

    I have also tried the ISCAN and deuce HD scaler through the RGB and you get the same problem.

    On component/svideo its a different story, no tearing just great pictures but you have to rely on the internal scaler/de-interlacer to do the work which is not as good as a HTPC or outboard scaler.

    On the whole though the picture is 95% excellant most of the time through the component. There are only occasional artifacts on dodgy discs and fast panning shots, which can be illiminated with an ISCAN but only on NTSC, as the other short coming is the tosh won't do and form of 50hz progressive which is crazy considering its a multi-scanning device that can take 50hz through the RGB.

    I am hoping there may some form of upgrade, as I know the machine is capable of taking the format.
     
  6. Comer

    Comer
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    Hi R0ne

    What is tearing? I am on the verge of putting together a HCPC with the Tosh MT3 and I want to make sure that this is not going to be a problem for me before I start spending money. I already have made the mistake of buying an iscan for the MT3, which was not a success at all.

    Thanks

    Conor

    (My home logon name is cg999)
     
  7. ROne

    ROne
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    Comer, with this set-up you will get tearing.

    It seems a lot of digital projectors have problems with their computer input (its not an issue on Y/C,component or composite), and I have had this problem on my MT1 and MT-7 and somebody else reported it with the MT-3.

    Basically even though your refresh rate with the HTCP is locked to the projector, there is some internal processing inside the proj that is somehow not in sync with the refresh rate, so when you get a lot of screen movement (i.e pans etc). the screen will appear to split in two where the refresh rate doesn't keep the whole screen in one piece.

    Its very annoying, and for me destroys the whole point of having a HTPC.

    I've not been able to get to the bottom of it and neither has anybody on the AVSCIENCE forum. So I would say its a limitation of the projector hardware. When they design a LCD projector I don't think it intended to be driven by a computer for video (maybe this is short-sightedness).

    My advice is get a component DVD player, and your picture quality will be 85% of what you get with a computer anyway.

    Plus, bear in mind the Mt-3 projector will make your signal progressive anyway and there is very little scaling to do -480i or 625i to a 16:9 800 x 600 panel where you will use approx 450 vertical pixels of the projector, the scaling is nominal. Therefore you won't massively benefit from the scaling of a PC anyway, there will be a subtle difference. Scaling down is always better than scaling up.

    Get yourself a grey screen instead.
     
  8. Comer

    Comer
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    Hi R0ne

    Firstly, thanks, your posts regarding the MT7 and iscan and HCPC have been invaluable to me over the last month or so.

    Well I was very disappointed when I read your last reply. When I was buying this pj I was down to deciding between the MT1 and the Sanyo PLV30. Unfortunately there was nowhere to view these projectors in Ireland so when I heard about the MT3's better contrast ratio and brightness I (blindly) took the plunge. I think that for the money it is a great projector; beautiful colour resolution, very good detail and considering that my last pj had a contrast ratio of 200:1, I very pleased with the tosh's contrast. (I have never seen a CRT in action so luckily I don't know what I'm missing). My problem with the the Tosh is a vertical line structure that appears as if it is on the screen itself. It is most apparent in foggy, smokey scenes, but it is really there all the time. I've sent the pj back to Toshiba and they say that it can't be improved.

    So I tried the pj with a PC. This pc had a low spec of 64MB RAM and an 8MB graphics card with the result that the picture was quite juddery (pausing for a second every few seconds). But, this aside, the picture was so much improved. I compaired The Phantom Menace on the DVD player to the HCPC. Firstly the amount of noise in the sky scenes was greatly reduced, the picture seemed brighter and the vertical lines were almost gone. I had to consiously look for them to see anything (the picyure was crap on the DVD-what was Home Cinema Choice reviewer thinking?) I did not look out for or notice this tearing. So I was delighted, I thought all my problems were solved. Until this morning when I read your post.

    It seems that I will just have to live with this vertical line structure.

    Thanks, you just saved me from myself, throwing away more money for nothing.


    Comer


    PS Is there any evidence of this vertical line structure on the MT7?
     
  9. ROne

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    There is vls on the tosh mt-7 if you sit about 1 foot back from the screen, but at normal viewing distance, none.

    You've got 1280x720 pixels so the display is more compacted, closer together pixels.

    To be honest when I had the tosh mt1 the line structure never really bothered me that much and in someways value for money the mt-1 was better than my mt-7.

    The mt-7 has fabulous picture with good discs, but I don't know if its worth double the money of the mt-1, having said that its cheaper than the other 16:9 projectors.

    the problem with the mt-7 is the scaling to the panel exhibits more problems with artifacts, you reveal more problems.

    however i don't regret buying it one iota and I for one am a bit of an LCD fan (a rare beast). I just find the image clarity better than low-medium end crts.

    I note that you didn't see any tearing, well bear in mind that the tearing travels up and down the screen and only during panning, so maybe you didn't see it because you visual sense didn't latch onto or you were in awe of the other improvements by using an HTPC. It may be worth trying it again on your makedo PC and looking for it.
     
  10. WSquared

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    Lieutenant Pigeon,
    Once you have demo'd the HT11, please give us you feedback. Also it would be nice if you told us who has these in the UK so we can see them for ourselves. :) Are they just getting 1, or a shipment?

    WSquared
     
  11. cg999

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    Hi R0ne

    I tried my low spec PC again tonight with R2 Gladiator-lots of panning in that movie. I'm still not sure what I should be looking for with this tearing. The only problem that I noticed was the shuddering (action pausing for a split second making the image very jumpy) and this was much more evident during scenes where the camera was panning. I am hoping that this is not tearing and a result of the low specification of the PC. This shuddering was also evident (but not quite to the same extent) watching the movie on the PC monitor. Apart from this shuddering the picture was beautiful...even my wife was impressed and how often does that kind of thing happen?

    My hope is that this jumpy picture is not being caused by the projector but by the PC...what do you think?


    Conor
     

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