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SONY VPLHS20 or VPL-VW12HT

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Smokin..o0O, Dec 27, 2003.

  1. Smokin..o0O

    Smokin..o0O
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    Hi.
    Time for me to say hello :hiya: , and lose my cherry on this forum with this question.
    If you could buy both the above mentioned pj's for the same price, which would you choose?
    I had almost decided on the HS20, mainly for it's features, price, and the fact that it suits my room with it's throw distance. I need 5 metres from lense to screen, and the HS20 fits the bill.
    Tonight I have come accross an offer for the VW12HT @ £2199 delivered. Until now, the best price I had found on this model was around £3000.
    I know the VW12HT does not have DVI connection, but I was hoping someone in the know could comment on the output quality of both pj's and help me reach a decision.
    I plan using a DRH 2.3 metre 16:9 electric screen, and plan on feeding the pj solely from a PC.
    It would be used mainly for watching DVD movies a few times a week.
    I have gathered lots of info fom you guys throught the many hours of reading your posts, and would have loved to have gone for the Z2 that so many of you are now enjoying, but it would have to be too close to the screen for my liking.
    I plan on hanging the PJ in the small conservatory at the back end of my living room, close to my PC and eliminating pj noise as much as possible.
     
  2. joe davis

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    hi .12ht is a bargain if you don't care about DVI input.
    good price for the vw12ht. ware is it for the price.
     
  3. theritz

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    At that price the 12HT would get my vote (12HT was a £6000 PJ when first came to market and hasn't been seriously outclassed by any LCD newcomer afaik) ............. built to last, absence of DVI wouldn't bother me. Do some reading on the net, get a cc30R or 40R filter and tweak it a bit, you'd never look back......................



    Sean G.
     
  4. Edgeyboy

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    Is the £2199 price for the 12HT available to anyone ?

    If so, would you mind posting the retailer's details.

    Many thanks

    Tom
     
  5. Operandi

    Operandi
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    Definitely go for the HS20. Even if the picture qualities are comparable you MAY need the DVI interface in the next few years.

    For example, I didn't need the DVI interface on Christmas Eve then my wife gave me Medal of Honour and a wireless keyboard for Christmas and now I can't wait to hook up a PC to my HS20.

    Also the depreciation on the HS20 will be less than the 12HT as you can see from the losses its already sustained.


    IMO the HS20 is much better than the Z2, but so it should be for the 50% price differential between these two excellent PJ's. See my recent side by side review.
     
  6. Smokin..o0O

    Smokin..o0O
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    Hello again.
    Sorry for heading of to bed after dangling the carrot, it was a long day, and I just couldn't keep my eyes open.
    This link should take you to the 12HT.
    http://www.play.com/play247.asp?page=title&r=GADG&title=138668

    I still have not reached a decision, and I guess by the time I do, there will be no 12HT left.
     
  7. theritz

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    No wish to start a "war of words" here, but can't let this pass unchallenged.....


    If you want an indicator of the depreciation effect on PJs, (and the HS10, as an example of what will happen to the HS20....) take a look in the AV for sale forum....... last HS10 was up for £999, iirc. No PJ is immune to depreciation - the issue here is that in a choice between the two, the 12HT has proven build quality, the HS10 had issues, the HS20 is from the same (consumer) stable and is unproven, imo there is no significant benefit that the HS20 has over the 12HT..................... no contest really.

    Take a look at the HCC review of the 12HT, or check out this review ..................... I know which one I'd go for.


    Sean G.
     
  8. Smokin..o0O

    Smokin..o0O
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    Me again :)
    After looking into this a little further, I am drawn more towards the HS20 again.
    As I said, the chosen projector will be fed from my PC, and I noted that the 12HT has no 15 pin connector.
    I have the choice of connecting to either DVI or VGA connectors on my PC, so it seems the HS20 is the 1 for me.
     
  9. Parmenion

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    On Play's website it says that this item is Non Refundable when delivered. I was under the impression that the Distance Selling Regulations that are applicable to buying goods on the Internet would apply.

    By stating that the item may not be returned for refund, does this mean that the distance selling regs can't be used?

    regards

    Parmenion
     
  10. Ekko Star

    Ekko Star
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    Considering upgrading my AE100 for a while now, but not been convinced to take the hit on selling it only to jump to a new Panasonic or the Sanyo's.

    However the 12HT at this price is a welcome proposition, am very tempted to sell and upgrade.

    Does anybody know the throw on this PJ ? Would be after 100" image and can cite the PJ in direct line 13-14ft from screen.

    As far as depreciation goes I would have thought much of that would be factored into it's new discounted price compared to the new £1500-2000 brigade which will surely take their big hit within 6mths (or less!) time?
     
  11. theritz

    theritz
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    The 12HT accepts a signal from a PC - you use a VGA to RCA cable......


    Sean G.
     
  12. Smokin..o0O

    Smokin..o0O
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    This afternoon I took a trip to Glasgow, only about 20 miles.
    Went to Robert White's store and asked a few questions about the HS20 : http://www.robertwhyteltd.co.uk/robertwhyteproduct.php?ID=216
    They have stock of the HS20, but it's at their warehouse, and Monday Is the earliest I can have 1.
    I'm about 90% set on buying the HS20. I really hate the thought of settling for second best, and I am unsure of what benefits, if any, the 12HT would have over the HS20.
    I've got the rest of the weekend to make my mind up.
    Thanks for all the input guys.
     
  13. theritz

    theritz
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    You're at the edge of being able to choose between two projectors - there's no way I'd consider the HS20 "second best" in the normal sense of the word, I just think that the 12HT is a superior piece of kit build-wise imo - it's missing the DVI connection is the only identifiable issue, and as that's not an issue for me it's something I'm happy to ignore - in common with others I see little or no difference between VGA and DVI connection, using HCPC exclusively it makes no difference to me.............but you should remember it's just my opinion.....

    If you feel the HS20 is the one for you - then go for it - you won't be getting "second best" anything - it's a super PJ and you'll be blown away by the pic quality. Don't let the proclivities of us lot get in your way to the point of indecisiveness - you asked for an opinion and that's what you've got - an opinion - not words of wisdom written in stone.

    Hope you'll have lots of fun with your new toy - whichever one you choose......


    Sean G.
     
  14. Parmenion

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    Is there anybody that has any views on the "Non refundable issue" ?

    regards

    Parmenion
     
  15. Kramer

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    I can't comment on the 12HT as it's one of the few projectors I haven't seen but as Sean says, a fine unit by all accounts.

    Refund issue - not ideal. Basically, they're saying that once you buy it, they're "finished". You'll be dealing exclusively with Sony after that.

    Couple of points.

    1. No pixel checks/guarantees.
    2. Vat & duties "may" well be payable as this is an import. Even if just vat is applied, the price climbs to £2583.

    Beyond that, the decision is yours.

    :smoke:
     
  16. KBDVD

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    Hi Smokin..o0O,

    This sounds like an excellent price for this unit!

    It brings this quality unit firmly into "budget" territory.

    In fact, ........ this seem's almost TOO good to be true! Which usualy means only one thing, ............ there's a catch!

    Could it be that this batch of projectors that Play 247 have gotten hold of are ALL factory sealed seconds?

    What makes me think that this could be a possibility is the prominent nature of the pixel warning and disclaimer in the advertisment. Usualy this is tucked away in an obscure corner of the advert as the seller would have you believe that "faulty pixels" are the exception rather than the "norm" but the "in your face" nature of the disclaimer in this advert would seem to indicate that Play 247 "FULLY EXPECT" you to find the odd one or two problem pixels on your unit!


    If this is a genuine offer, for pucker stock, then it is a good one, and I would have thought that the quality of components used in the manufacture of the 12HT would surpass the quality of components found in the HS20, given it's original intended selling price.

    So if the performance of the two units is close, then build quality alone, (& therefore longevity?) would sway me towards the 12HT.

    What do you guy's think?

    I'm tempted at this price, but I would dearly love to hear from anyone who's bought one of these units from Play 247 first, in order to establish if they are "pixel perfect"?

    Best Regards,
    KBDVD.
     
  17. Ekko Star

    Ekko Star
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    @ Kramer why would VAT & Duties apply ?

    I am sooooo tempted at this price.

    However, I guess if Play can do it for that price then others will surely soon follow if indeed it is a price drop inlight of the 13's release ? I'm off to have a chat with my dealer !!!

    As for Play's policy I think they are genuinely trying to protect themselves rather than shift below par units. After all, they are reputable and selling AV equipment is not quite their niche market.



    @ Smokin..o0O, if you're happy with the HS20 then go with that. Price/performance/size ratio constantly evolves in this field and if we were all to hang on for the next best thing then no one would buy anything. At £2200 the 12HT is indeed the bargain it is considering it's original price, but that was in itself over inflated in all honesty. If it came down to spec comparison I'm sure it's a very close call, If the 12 has "quality" written all over it ( and it sure has), then I guess the 20 has "performance for price" on it.
     
  18. KBDVD

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    Hi Ekko Star,

    Me tooooooooooo mate! :smashin:

    kramer: I too would like to know why you think that VAT & Duties would apply? .......There's no hint of this in the advert, and nothing to make you think that these would be anything other than UK stock. :confused:

    Best Regards,
    KBDVD.


    Quick,......... somebody talk me out of buying one of these please! :suicide:
     
  19. GaryG

    GaryG
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    Play is based in the Channel Islands.

    Play.com
    PO Box 192
    Jersey
    JE4 8RP

    From the following link:
    http://www.customs.gov.je/europe.htm#c

    I suspect you would need to pay import duties and VAT. I can't be certain but I seem to remember getting caught for tax on a large order of DVD's from play a few years ago.
     
  20. GaryG

    GaryG
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    This backs it up

    from this link
    http://www.jenniferbridge.co.uk/issues/vat.htm
     
  21. Kramer

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    I think GaryG has answered pretty comprehensively :)

    It's possible they'll ship from within the UK (direct from Sony maybe? - no, very unlikely that!) but I'd certainly ask for clarification before purchase. £385 on top would put a different complexion on the "offer".

    :smoke:
     
  22. KBDVD

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    Hi,

    The advert clearly states "£2199.00 delivered" and the "Gadgets" section prices are all "only applicable to UK deliveries" so I would say that VAT @ duty has been included in this price! :clap: :clap: :clap:

    I've sent them an e-mail asking them to clarify this and will let you know of their reply.

    Best Regards,
    KBDVD.
     
  23. chrissb6

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    Just come in from shopping, been in the sony shop in hong Kong and watched a demo with the H20 then went along the street to a high fi centre watched a demo of the 12 HT. I am one of these first time buyer's and my mind is presently torn between the 2 What l can say is the 12 HT looks a very solid piece of kit against the H20. The picture also got the nod as well, but the problem here was they were viewed in differant show room's, I am also waiting for official confirmation from sony H.K regarding warrenty backing. And like others on this thread l would be interested to know, where the guy got his price for the 12HT in the U.K This would save me all the drama of carting one back to the U.K. I will let you know the official reply from sony is regarding inported products warrenty.
    Prices in Hong Kong for both products are:
    12 HT = £2,237.82 and the H20 = £1,743.23, one sales person say' the 12HT is still the top modle and say's the H20 is just an upgrade of the H10 and another say's HS20 is of a higher spec
    and offers better conections. Hope you guy's can give me some pointers
    Regards
     
  24. theritz

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    Jersey and VAT.........

    Although the Channel Islands form part of the Customs territory of the EC, they are not full member states and are not part of the Single European Market for VAT purposes. The C.I. do not have a VAT regime, therefore traders established in the islands are not required by the insular authorities to be registered for such a tax. As a result all goods shipped to the islands from full member states of the EC must be treated as export trade in the same manner as merchandise destined for Third Countries. Exports to the islands should therefore be zero rated for VAT. Goods exported from the CI consigned to a member state of the EC are liable to VAT upon importation at the rate applicable in the country of destination.

    I would be interesting to see what Play's reply to KBDVD will be......................


    Sean G.
     
  25. Anim

    Anim
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    I almost bought one, i did. But then that little voice in the back of my head said "dont do it, your a student!", I tried to ignore it and was hovering over the buy button when I relunctantly decided that Uni has to come first.

    Anyway, here is a Review from projectorcentral of the 12HT.

    They do say near the bottom of the review that price needs to come down to compete in the market so maybe this is the first signs of that.

    Anim
     
  26. Kramer

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    They say:

    Makes me think the HS20 should at least equal the 12HT in most respects & better it in many.

    What chance have Sony of selling 12HTs for £3/4/5k with HS10/20s available at £1/2k.

    :smoke:
     
  27. JSW

    JSW
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    Whats the throw distance ?

    Currently have AE100 and considering the 12ht at plays price.

    The visible diagonal of my screen is 86" and the AE100 is 9.5' from the screen.

    Would the 12ht work in the same position ?

    Cheers
    Bry
     
  28. theritz

    theritz
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    Bry...

    Projectorcentral.com is your friend............... most of the time - it has been known to be inaccurate from time to time......



    Sean G.
     
  29. JSW

    JSW
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    Read the review yesterday, don't know how i missed it lol

    "VW12HT is all about image elegance, not size. So for us the optimal point on the size vs. quality trade-off curve was at 90" diagonal. This is the size at which the image pops with contrast and detail, and the integrity of the image is sufficiently tight to elicit that "Wow" response. Throw distance required for this screen size is about 10 to 11.5 feet."
     
  30. Ekko Star

    Ekko Star
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    Yes it'll be interesting to see what reply KBDVD gets. Play have quoted a UK delivery price and the fact that they have gone to some length to stipulate a non-refundable clause yet omit VAT would seem rather strange ? If it was applicable, and they were delivering to the UK wouldn't it come up in the order basket anyway ? That would not be good business sense for them as a customer could simply refuse to pay the VAT and claim the price they paid was for a delivered and UK landed item ( as per there usual policy on everything else they sell)



    I order loadsa DVD's from Play and the price they quote on screen is what I pay ? I've never had to pay any additional VAT or tax even on large orders ?

    Anyway lets await the outcome.

    I've been to see my preferred dealer today (who is fully Sony authroised) and had a good chat with him. He was non too surprised as he is constantly seeing PJ and AV prices tumble at the moment. He said he will enquire tomorrow with Sony and get me a price. Obviously getting it from him would mean I get to do a thorough pixel check personally !

    My trusty AE100 may soon be up for sale, but we shall see !
     

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