Sony VPL-VW870ES 4K SXRD Laser Projector Review & Comments

jakimp

Well-known Member
wonder how it compares to the JVC NX9 - you can buy a lot of JVC bulbs for £7,000
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
Is Sonys typical purple color fringing present on this model.?
Whats measured on off contrast with no iris.? And whats measured ansi ?
 
I'll take seven!

Seriously, though. If I had a windfall, an inheritance maybe? I totally would buy this. Maybe I'll take my dad to Dover to, er... check out the view?
 
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Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
It's 17,235:1 HDR and 8,524:1 SDR on/off.
Hows that working.? calibrated ? what kind of light output on what type and size screen.?
I dont understand how the contrast can be that different, unless there is some iris or lamp dimming manipulation. 8524:1 sounds very SONY alike native contrast.
What kind of trow did you measure it at.?
 

Coulson

Well-known Member
"A wealth of features but perhaps a little too rich for most..."

Perhaps?
 

PaulDavidThomas

Active Member
I was sampling a can of doombar when I read the price. I'm still not sure why I didn't instantly spit it out... That's a darn fine looking projector. But oh boy, that's rather expensive.
 

Superhans

Active Member
A 2019 £25k laser projector throws a fine image but still can’t do HDR properly.

Consumer projectors are never going to crack this are they?
 

Phil Hinton

Editor
Staff member
Hows that working.? calibrated ? what kind of light output on what type and size screen.?
I dont understand how the contrast can be that different, unless there is some iris or lamp dimming manipulation. 8524:1 sounds very SONY alike native contrast.
What kind of trow did you measure it at.?
Best image modes calibrated on a 10% window and measured from the projector (taking the room and screen out of the equation, so you are seeing what the projector can do). Doing it any other way adds in too many variables. Final calibration was the only measurements from the screen following all other measurements from the projector. It does have a dynamic iris and the laser is also dynamic as mentioned in the review.
 

Phil Hinton

Editor
Staff member
Seems really bright for 2200 lumens, what size / gain screen are you getting 450 nits on?
Normal standard measurements on a 10% window from the projector. You can check this from the graphs and see what the tone mapping is doing.
 

jfinnie

Distinguished Member
Normal standard measurements on a 10% window from the projector. You can check this from the graphs and see what the tone mapping is doing.
Sorry, I don't follow your point - it's not a question related to tone mapping. 450nits peak output just sounds really (surprisingly) bright (over 130ftL). High lamp on my X7900 at max zoom on my 0.8 gain 92" screen is way less than 200 nits, and that is supposed to be 1900 lumens. Nits can only be measured off screen and varies with screen size, zoom setting and gain.

Peak nits doesn't make sense to report without details of the screen size and gain. If the 450nit measurement is off screen it must be either a very small screen or a pretty high gain screen, or perhaps something in the middle. Either way it would be useful to know what the 450 nits has been measured off. It's just not that useful to quote a number in nits for the brightness achieved without giving the details of the screen on which it was achieved.

If you want to quote a useful number indicating the brightness of the unit without giving details of the screen then you'd just want to work out the calibrated lumens, which could then be turned into nits by prospective purchasers using their screen size and gain.

EDIT: I can see I'm going over old ground here, it has come up before and @Steve Withers explained you are using the meter facing the lens:
Sony VPL-VW260ES 4K SXRD Projector Review & Comments
Are you still doing that?
 
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Phil Hinton

Editor
Staff member
Thanks for your input. I'm happy with most of our measurement gathering as it stands, but accept that we could present this better in the reviews. I'm really busy at the moment, but when TV review season finishes I'll take a look at how we present the projector reviews going forward.
 

ask4me2

Active Member
Nice review of a real nice projector. In addition to the 450 nits without the necessary additional factors already mentioned, an other point after reading this... How representative is the calibration out of the box from this particular projector? Looking at the "Box" from your video it looks like this one have been unpacked, used, chipped and tested several times before?
vlcsnap-2019-06-22-08h40m45s984.png
There also seems to be a little "dent" in the sticker between the network port and the HDMI port, that may indicate that this is not a new out of the box projector direct from Sony.
vw.png

Some of the adjustment possible like the convergence and Digital Focus Optimizer may change the default Reference picture presets, not to mention the color properties for the projector screen used itself. (or if other testers may have done some ting with this unit using Sony software)
One other point may also be how the measuring probe react to the Blue Laser/Phosphorus light source? (since the blue seems to be the color with the biggest errors)

To make a little more indication/conclusion of how manufacturer calibrate their projectors, the number of new projectors out of the box may also be more than one... Do think the price point and that this often point toward a professional install and therefor the point of out of the box calibration is not all that important is a good one to.

From some of the menus in the video, there seems to be a little vertical green/blue convergence error (around the edges if the info box) , is this something in the same amount that this unit have in real life looking at close at the screen?

3xconv.png
 

jfinnie

Distinguished Member
Thanks for your input. I'm happy with most of our measurement gathering as it stands, but accept that we could present this better in the reviews. I'm really busy at the moment, but when TV review season finishes I'll take a look at how we present the projector reviews going forward.
I agree, it's only really this that sticks.

I think if you want a very quick one liner it is something like "In high lamp We got x calibrated nits off screen from our x" x gain screen at x zoom, dropping to x calibrated nits in low lamp", or whatever, then folk can think about how their screen size compared to that. If you want to remove the screen to unify reviews across different reviewer's screens, tell people the calibrated lumens facing the lens at a given zoom for high / low lamp (as that has a pretty large effect), and maybe a little technical article elsewhere on how folk can get from lumen output to on screen nits, how zoom affects lumens and contrast, etc. Folk can look at that info against the factory spec and see how flexible the manufacturer were with the truth.

The most technical reviews I've seen really dig deep into how the optical system impacts the light output at different iris settings, lamp/laser settings and zoom settings (the 3 main variables). But I'm not really sure that sort of thing matches the style of the rest of your reviews, it ends up being quite a meaty table of data which most folk find uninteresting (not me, but hey-ho).
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
Best image modes calibrated on a 10% window and measured from the projector (taking the room and screen out of the equation, so you are seeing what the projector can do). Doing it any other way adds in too many variables. Final calibration was the only measurements from the screen following all other measurements from the projector. It does have a dynamic iris and the laser is also dynamic as mentioned in the review.
To be sure i understand right, these contrast measurements are with dynamic iris and lamp dimming active.?

That would explain the higher contrast in HDR mode.
 

ask4me2

Active Member
This is not a lamp but laser based projector, so if the dynamic laser have a setting so it can go from 0-100% light output, the on/off contrast measurement shod start to look more like a ∞:1 number...

Think the native panel contrast only shod be measured with a known laser, iris and lens zoom settings, so these contrast numbers can be compared in a better way, and it will be more easy to evaluate if the panels shod have a contrast drop over time... Rely hope Sony have corrected that in these new models....
 

Trollslayer

Distinguished Member
start to look more like a ∞:1 number..
At the speeds involved there will be significant limitations on how finely output power can be controlled - eight million pixels at 60Hz means a pixel rate of 480MHz at quite high power.
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
This is not a lamp but laser based projector, so if the dynamic laser have a setting so it can go from 0-100% light output, the on/off contrast measurement shod start to look more like a ∞:1 number...

Think the native panel contrast only shod be measured with a known laser, iris and lens zoom settings, so these contrast numbers can be compared in a better way, and it will be more easy to evaluate if the panels shod have a contrast drop over time... Rely hope Sony have corrected that in these new models....
Laser lamp, all projectors is lamp based as i see it, just different type of lamps. However im a bit surprised that the contrast is no better than the VPL VW270ES on such a expensive projector.
As you say the trow and lamp settings should be knows for contrast measurements, otherwise its not usefull, thats why i asked for native contrast with no iris.
All digital projectors have infinite contrast if you use the power button.
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
At the speeds involved there will be significant limitations on how finely output power can be controlled - eight million pixels at 60Hz means a pixel rate of 480MHz at quite high power.
What are you refering to.? Im not sure your on the same page here.
 

Trollslayer

Distinguished Member
Basically controlling 10 bit power levels at high speeds is difficult, all kind of side effects have to be dealt with in addition to the laser performance itself.
 

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