Sony VPL-VW870ES 4K SXRD Laser Projector Review & Comments

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Phil Hinton, Jun 21, 2019.


    1. Phil Hinton

      Phil Hinton
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    2. DLPMaybe

      DLPMaybe
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      Interesting good read thanks. Although I think it will be far less than 1% ;)
       
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    3. jakimp

      jakimp
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      wonder how it compares to the JVC NX9 - you can buy a lot of JVC bulbs for £7,000
       
    4. Stridsvognen

      Stridsvognen
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      Is Sonys typical purple color fringing present on this model.?
      Whats measured on off contrast with no iris.? And whats measured ansi ?
       
    5. Slinkywizard

      Slinkywizard
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      I'll take seven!

      Seriously, though. If I had a windfall, an inheritance maybe? I totally would buy this. Maybe I'll take my dad to Dover to, er... check out the view?
       
      Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
    6. Phil Hinton

      Phil Hinton
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      It's 17,235:1 HDR and 8,524:1 SDR on/off.
       
    7. Stridsvognen

      Stridsvognen
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      Hows that working.? calibrated ? what kind of light output on what type and size screen.?
      I dont understand how the contrast can be that different, unless there is some iris or lamp dimming manipulation. 8524:1 sounds very SONY alike native contrast.
      What kind of trow did you measure it at.?
       
    8. Coulson

      Coulson
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      "A wealth of features but perhaps a little too rich for most..."

      Perhaps?
       
    9. PaulDavidThomas

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      I was sampling a can of doombar when I read the price. I'm still not sure why I didn't instantly spit it out... That's a darn fine looking projector. But oh boy, that's rather expensive.
       
    10. Superhans

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      A 2019 £25k laser projector throws a fine image but still can’t do HDR properly.

      Consumer projectors are never going to crack this are they?
       
    11. jfinnie

      jfinnie
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      Seems really bright for 2200 lumens, what size / gain screen are you getting 450 nits on?
       
    12. Phil Hinton

      Phil Hinton
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      Best image modes calibrated on a 10% window and measured from the projector (taking the room and screen out of the equation, so you are seeing what the projector can do). Doing it any other way adds in too many variables. Final calibration was the only measurements from the screen following all other measurements from the projector. It does have a dynamic iris and the laser is also dynamic as mentioned in the review.
       
    13. Phil Hinton

      Phil Hinton
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      Normal standard measurements on a 10% window from the projector. You can check this from the graphs and see what the tone mapping is doing.
       
    14. jfinnie

      jfinnie
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      Sorry, I don't follow your point - it's not a question related to tone mapping. 450nits peak output just sounds really (surprisingly) bright (over 130ftL). High lamp on my X7900 at max zoom on my 0.8 gain 92" screen is way less than 200 nits, and that is supposed to be 1900 lumens. Nits can only be measured off screen and varies with screen size, zoom setting and gain.

      Peak nits doesn't make sense to report without details of the screen size and gain. If the 450nit measurement is off screen it must be either a very small screen or a pretty high gain screen, or perhaps something in the middle. Either way it would be useful to know what the 450 nits has been measured off. It's just not that useful to quote a number in nits for the brightness achieved without giving the details of the screen on which it was achieved.

      If you want to quote a useful number indicating the brightness of the unit without giving details of the screen then you'd just want to work out the calibrated lumens, which could then be turned into nits by prospective purchasers using their screen size and gain.

      EDIT: I can see I'm going over old ground here, it has come up before and @Steve Withers explained you are using the meter facing the lens:
      Sony VPL-VW260ES 4K SXRD Projector Review & Comments
      Are you still doing that?
       
      Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
    15. Phil Hinton

      Phil Hinton
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      Thanks for your input. I'm happy with most of our measurement gathering as it stands, but accept that we could present this better in the reviews. I'm really busy at the moment, but when TV review season finishes I'll take a look at how we present the projector reviews going forward.
       
    16. ask4me2

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      Nice review of a real nice projector. In addition to the 450 nits without the necessary additional factors already mentioned, an other point after reading this... How representative is the calibration out of the box from this particular projector? Looking at the "Box" from your video it looks like this one have been unpacked, used, chipped and tested several times before?
      vlcsnap-2019-06-22-08h40m45s984.png There also seems to be a little "dent" in the sticker between the network port and the HDMI port, that may indicate that this is not a new out of the box projector direct from Sony.
      vw.png
      Some of the adjustment possible like the convergence and Digital Focus Optimizer may change the default Reference picture presets, not to mention the color properties for the projector screen used itself. (or if other testers may have done some ting with this unit using Sony software)
      One other point may also be how the measuring probe react to the Blue Laser/Phosphorus light source? (since the blue seems to be the color with the biggest errors)

      To make a little more indication/conclusion of how manufacturer calibrate their projectors, the number of new projectors out of the box may also be more than one... Do think the price point and that this often point toward a professional install and therefor the point of out of the box calibration is not all that important is a good one to.

      From some of the menus in the video, there seems to be a little vertical green/blue convergence error (around the edges if the info box) , is this something in the same amount that this unit have in real life looking at close at the screen?

      3xconv.png
       
    17. jfinnie

      jfinnie
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      I agree, it's only really this that sticks.

      I think if you want a very quick one liner it is something like "In high lamp We got x calibrated nits off screen from our x" x gain screen at x zoom, dropping to x calibrated nits in low lamp", or whatever, then folk can think about how their screen size compared to that. If you want to remove the screen to unify reviews across different reviewer's screens, tell people the calibrated lumens facing the lens at a given zoom for high / low lamp (as that has a pretty large effect), and maybe a little technical article elsewhere on how folk can get from lumen output to on screen nits, how zoom affects lumens and contrast, etc. Folk can look at that info against the factory spec and see how flexible the manufacturer were with the truth.

      The most technical reviews I've seen really dig deep into how the optical system impacts the light output at different iris settings, lamp/laser settings and zoom settings (the 3 main variables). But I'm not really sure that sort of thing matches the style of the rest of your reviews, it ends up being quite a meaty table of data which most folk find uninteresting (not me, but hey-ho).
       
    18. Trollslayer

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      "That's not to say that the image quality is bad" - not what I want to hear for £24k.
       
    19. Stridsvognen

      Stridsvognen
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      To be sure i understand right, these contrast measurements are with dynamic iris and lamp dimming active.?

      That would explain the higher contrast in HDR mode.
       
    20. ask4me2

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      This is not a lamp but laser based projector, so if the dynamic laser have a setting so it can go from 0-100% light output, the on/off contrast measurement shod start to look more like a ∞:1 number...

      Think the native panel contrast only shod be measured with a known laser, iris and lens zoom settings, so these contrast numbers can be compared in a better way, and it will be more easy to evaluate if the panels shod have a contrast drop over time... Rely hope Sony have corrected that in these new models....
       
    21. Trollslayer

      Trollslayer
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      At the speeds involved there will be significant limitations on how finely output power can be controlled - eight million pixels at 60Hz means a pixel rate of 480MHz at quite high power.
       
    22. Stridsvognen

      Stridsvognen
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      Laser lamp, all projectors is lamp based as i see it, just different type of lamps. However im a bit surprised that the contrast is no better than the VPL VW270ES on such a expensive projector.
      As you say the trow and lamp settings should be knows for contrast measurements, otherwise its not usefull, thats why i asked for native contrast with no iris.
      All digital projectors have infinite contrast if you use the power button.
       
    23. ask4me2

      ask4me2
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      :confused: ??
       
    24. Stridsvognen

      Stridsvognen
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      What are you refering to.? Im not sure your on the same page here.
       
    25. Trollslayer

      Trollslayer
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      Basically controlling 10 bit power levels at high speeds is difficult, all kind of side effects have to be dealt with in addition to the laser performance itself.
       
    26. ask4me2

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      All projectors that do send out light when the power is on will do the same. ;)
       
    27. Stridsvognen

      Stridsvognen
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      on off contrast is a static image you measure, first black and then white, how do that involve Mhz, bit and framerate.?
       
    28. Trollslayer

      Trollslayer
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      Having the laser controlling the light output with scanning mirrors is the only way an ∞:1 contrast ratio can be achieved.
      The alternative method with something like a LCD panel to block light per pixel would not produce ∞:1.
      You can have a single pixel active and measure the levels of that.
       
    29. ask4me2

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    30. Trollslayer

      Trollslayer
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      I am happy to be corrected, that is a very interesting solution.
       

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