Sony VPL VW760ES owner's thread

[dms]

A torture test for any of these machines is the opening credits for The Descent on Blu Ray. If you can fix it on this scene, you’ll have no problems anywhere else.

for me, brightness to 49 (which strangely gives more shadow detail at near black levels) and contrast enhancer on low. Since changing these settings, I’ve not experienced any banding at all.

Urgh looks like I will have to watch that one day then. Its on my shelf to remind me I'm not a spelunker.

 

[groesbeek]

According to some accounts, it is down to a bottle neck somewhere in the processing pipeline.
i.e. They are supposed to have full 10 bit processing pipelines, but some say it is handled in 8 bit only at some point. If that is indeed true it is certainly shocking and distinctly below par especially for the price these go for.
I don't see banding on mine that isn't source related however.

Can I ask what programme the images of the door you posted earlier are from please?

It’s the opening title sequence form The Servant on Apple TV+ from an Apple TV 4K.

 

[DB9S]

It’s the opening title sequence form The Servant on Apple TV+ from an Apple TV 4K.

Thanks. Don't have ATV and so I won't be able to check it.

 

[Trophy hunter]

Indeed it’s the contrast enhancer. Possible it does some low bit resolution processing.
Turned it off now.
View attachment 1464841
View attachment 1464842
View attachment 1464843

But you are still getting it with it off.

 

[DB9S]

But you are still getting it with it off.

Some settings need tweaking I would say. Contrast (HDR) and/or brightness need lowering a couple of clicks? The curves in use show up low level compression very readily unfortunately. It is a side effect of them trying to maximise shadow detail after the firmware update.
Not ideal of course, but it does highlight less than stellar source material.
It would have been ideal to have all the other benefits but with no change to the curves in my opinion.

 

[groesbeek]

Thanks, gents. Per my earlier post #97 indeed still seeing it also on Uhd blu rays and am moving on...

 

[DB9S]

Thanks, gents. Per my earlier post #97 indeed still seeing it also on Uhd blu rays and am moving on...

Can you name a couple of example discs and time stamps please?
Moving on to another projector?

 

[groesbeek]

Can you name a couple of example discs and time stamps please?
Moving on to another projector?

Yes, I have the 760 to try from someone wanting to sell it. Going on the the dark side (JVC).

Yesterday, I saw banding/contouring on Fury Road on the darker middle section of the movie - where they passed the crows - and in the large blue scenes on the Meg UHD. Could just be my sample. Still have it for a while until the JVC comes in and am happy to try any suggestions.

For HDR I’m set up using the Spear and Munsil disc, brightness at 48 (though the test pattern indicates 52), Max laser, all enhancements turned off, laser control on limited, firmware 8.102 (was worse with the 8.002 it came with).

 

[DB9S]

Yes, I have the 760 to try from someone wanting to sell it. Going on the the dark side (JVC).

Yesterday, I saw banding/contouring on Fury Road on the darker middle section of the movie - where they passed the crows - and in the large blue scenes on the Meg UHD. Could just be my sample. Still have it for a while until the JVC comes in and am happy to try any suggestions.

For HDR I’m set up using the Spear and Munsil disc, brightness at 48 (though the test pattern indicates 52), Max laser, all enhancements turned off, laser control on limited, firmware 8.102 (was worse with the 8.002 it came with).

I have Fury Road and the Meg on UHD and don't recall any such anomalies. If you can give specific scenes I will check next time I am using it.
What manufacturing date is the one you have there? It's on a label near the serial number on the projector.
Could try disconnecting it from the mains for 30 minutes to reset the processors?

 

[mb3195]

Yes, I have the 760 to try from someone wanting to sell it. Going on the the dark side (JVC).

Yesterday, I saw banding/contouring on Fury Road on the darker middle section of the movie - where they passed the crows - and in the large blue scenes on the Meg UHD. Could just be my sample. Still have it for a while until the JVC comes in and am happy to try any suggestions.

For HDR I’m set up using the Spear and Munsil disc, brightness at 48 (though the test pattern indicates 52), Max laser, all enhancements turned off, laser control on limited, firmware 8.102 (was worse with the 8.002 it came with).

what are your settings on your uhd player?

on my zappiti I had to adjust a couple of settings, mainly deep colour to 10 bit and colour space to 4:4:4, without these settings i was getting really bad banding, but it wasn’t the projector, it was the player.

I literally get no banding at all on anything now, even the toughest scenes.

brightness 48 might actually be worse the 49 as well.

 

[Slinkywizard]

what are your settings on your uhd player?

on my zappiti I had to adjust a couple of settings, mainly deep colour to 10 bit and colour space to 4:4:4, without these settings i was getting really bad banding, but it wasn’t the projector, it was the player.

I literally get no banding at all on anything now, even the toughest scenes.

brightness 48 might actually be worse the 49 as well.

This is a good point. I have 4:4:4 output to the projector from my Apple TV. I wonder if that has anything to do with it. Hold on, gonna stick it back at 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 and have a looksee.

ten minutes later

Nope. I can't reproduce the posterisaton even with 4:2:0 and Lumagen on pass-through. I reckon it is down to individual unit, firmware, and/or the fact mine is a 790.

 

[DB9S]

This is a good point. I have 4:4:4 output to the projector from my Apple TV. I wonder if that has anything to do with it. Hold on, gonna stick it back at 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 and have a looksee.

ten minutes later

Nope. I can't reproduce the posterisaton even with 4:2:0 and Lumagen on pass-through. I reckon it is down to individual unit, firmware, and/or the fact mine is a 790.

I use source direct from my oppo. No banding seen in anything I throw at it. It is definitely a combo of settings on the projector and source.
Sky Q 4:2:0 4K HLG = no banding there either. And the Q box is a pretty crappy source as they go.

 

[mb3195]

This is a good point. I have 4:4:4 output to the projector from my Apple TV. I wonder if that has anything to do with it. Hold on, gonna stick it back at 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 and have a looksee.

ten minutes later

Nope. I can't reproduce the posterisaton even with 4:2:0 and Lumagen on pass-through. I reckon it is down to individual unit, firmware, and/or the fact mine is a 790.

yeah it’s strange, on my appletv I need to set it to 4:2:0. It seems every player has some sort of bottleneck going on.

A really good test for banding is BR2049. The opening scene where K is in his spaceship, in the background you’ll see the sky and clouds, i suffered really badly with this (on my zappiti) until I got my settings right, now it’s really stable and you can make out all of the individual clouds that even my OLED and LCD screens struggle with.

 

[Slinkywizard]

yeah it’s strange, on my appletv I need to set it to 4:2:0. It seems every player has some sort of bottleneck going on.

A really good test for banding is BR2049. The opening scene where K is in his spaceship, in the background you’ll see the sky and clouds, i suffered really badly with this (on my zappiti) until I got my settings right, now it’s really stable and you can make out all of the individual clouds that even my OLED and LCD screens struggle with.

Funny thing, when my projector was away for repair I was using a Sony full-array dimming LCD which had excellent reviews for picture quality. But honestly, I couldn't get the picture looking anything like as good as on my projector. I mean they're very different pricing brackets, but TVs have all the advantages. Testament to just how good these projectors are. And the eye-searing brightness of that TV did absolutely nothing for me. I'm like 'What else you got?'. Nowt.

 

[DB9S]

Funny thing, when my projector was away for repair I was using a Sony full-array dimming LCD which had excellent reviews for picture quality. But honestly, I couldn't get the picture looking anything like as good as on my projector. I mean they're very different pricing brackets, but TVs have all the advantages. Testament to just how good these projectors are. And the eye-searing brightness of that TV did absolutely nothing for me. I'm like 'What else you got?'. Nowt.

Something very compelling about a reflected image. Especially one with as stable a light source as laser....

 

[groesbeek]

I am using a Panasonic 820 and an ATV4K both doing the 4:4:4 conversion. But those worked fine with my Epson.
I will try with reduced settings in the players, though I guess this pushes the workload of converting to 4:4:4 Y’CbCr and then RGB to the projector. The Panasonic at least is widely accepted to have the best chroma conversion, so it’s unlikely to be the reason.

 

[groesbeek]

what are your settings on your uhd player?

on my zappiti I had to adjust a couple of settings, mainly deep colour to 10 bit and colour space to 4:4:4, without these settings i was getting really bad banding, but it wasn’t the projector, it was the player.

I literally get no banding at all on anything now, even the toughest scenes.

brightness 48 might actually be worse the 49 as well.

Well in any case the conversion is 4:2:0 to 4:4:4 to RGB, just a question of whether it’s the player or the projector that does the conversion.
If you set the player to 4:4:4 and its bettter than a lower setting, it means the player does a better job at this conversion than the projector.

 

[DB9S]

I am using a Panasonic 820 and an ATV4K both doing the 4:4:4 conversion. But those worked fine with my Epson.
I will try with reduced settings in the players, though I guess this pushes the workload of converting to 4:4:4 Y’CbCr and then RGB to the projector. The Panasonic at least is widely accepted to have the best chroma conversion, so it’s unlikely to be the reason.

Disconnect the projector for 30minutes. That will reset the hardware. See if it helps.

 

[DB9S]

I am using a Panasonic 820 and an ATV4K both doing the 4:4:4 conversion. But those worked fine with my Epson.
I will try with reduced settings in the players, though I guess this pushes the workload of converting to 4:4:4 Y’CbCr and then RGB to the projector. The Panasonic at least is widely accepted to have the best chroma conversion, so it’s unlikely to be the reason.

Depends on what the Panasonic is being passed through on its way to the display.....

 

[dms]

I have to admit when I watch stuff on Netflix it looks similar to your screenshot with your 760 and it's pretty horrid. Just watched Barbaren (Barbarians) and the night shots are generally poor.... but I've always meant to see if I can change it with the Xbox HDR settings.

I'm such an idiot. I remember precisely changing my colour depth to 12bit on my Xbox.... but I went to take a look as all sources are saying this banding is caused by 8bit colour... and my setting was 8bit! Changed it and everything is perfect.

Now I don't know if my memory is doing this on my old Xbox One X or whether I did change it on the Xbox Series X and then it reset itself... doesn't seem likely but you never know.

Anyway I'm glad your were complaining about yours because now I've fixed mine as a result ;-)

Nope I was still an idiot. Told the wife I'd fixed it and we sat down to watch Barbern (Barbarians) on Netflix on the Xbox and there was "banding" or crushed coloured which she complained about. She also complained The Queens Gambit hadn't looked great when she watched it.

I tried a few settings and it turned out in my case the real problem was the dynamic range (set to auto). Setting that to "full" really did fix things. We also found we much preferred the picture with contrast enhancer set to full.

Clearly what was happening was either the Netflix app, Xbox or something in the chain wasn't handling the signal properly and so the picture had banding or crushed colours; not sure how you'd describe it.

I tried Netflix on a web browser on my PC in the lounge (which doesn't do HDR) and that didn't need the range set to full (but perhaps that was irrelevant compared without HDR); it also a looked worse picture though.

Any Mrs was glad we fixed it and we watched the last half of the series.

 

[Slinkywizard]

Nope I was still an idiot. Told the wife I'd fixed it and we sat down to watch Barbern (Barbarians) on Netflix on the Xbox and there was "banding" or crushed coloured which she complained about. She also complained The Queens Gambit hadn't looked great when she watched it.

I tried a few settings and it turned out in my case the real problem was the dynamic range (set to auto). Setting that to "full" really did fix things. We also found we much preferred the picture with contrast enhancer set to full.

Clearly what was happening was either the Netflix app, Xbox or something in the chain wasn't handling the signal properly and so the picture had banding or crushed colours; not sure how you'd describe it.

I tried Netflix on a web browser on my PC in the lounge (which doesn't do HDR) and that didn't need the range set to full (but perhaps that was irrelevant compared without HDR); it also a looked worse picture though.

Any Mrs was glad we fixed it and we watched the last half of the series.

I think you're right. Banding like that is always because 8-bit is somewhere in the chain. So check your receiver especially and ensure it is set to enhanced. IF you have a Denon, @groesbeek, it's somewhere in the HDMI menu.

 

[alebonau]

Well in any case the conversion is 4:2:0 to 4:4:4 to RGB, just a question of whether it’s the player or the projector that does the conversion.
If you set the player to 4:4:4 and its bettter than a lower setting, it means the player does a better job at this conversion than the projector.

There is absolutely no sense in converting to 4:4:4 - see from note below why, definitely leave any conversions to the projector

UHD 101: Demystifying 4K, UHD Blu Ray, wide color gamut, HDR, 4:4:4, 18Gbps and the rest! - Acoustic Frontiers

Read this comprehensive article to learn almost everything you might want to know about UHD, including 4K, UHD Blu Ray, wide color gamut, HDR, 4:4:4, 18Gbps

www.acousticfrontiers.com

"There is no intrinsic benefit to the source upsampling to 4:4:4 or converting to RGB. With respect to UHD and HDMI it is actually beneficial if the conversion to 4:2:2, 4:4:4 and RGB is, as much as possible, left to the display, as this reduces the HDMI bandwidth requirements."

I think you're right. Banding like that is always because 8-bit is somewhere in the chain. So check your receiver especially and ensure it is set to enhanced. IF you have a Denon, @groesbeek, it's somewhere in the HDMI menu.

if running denon or marantz if you just leave it factory theres nothing to worry about, same with panasonic players - leave to factory setting - select 4k 50/60 with source. oppo also factory setting works just fine. if its apple tv 4k, I have posted my settings (just matching source for rate and range) and that doesnt have any banding going on this is with jvc though

 

[panman40]

There is absolutely no sense in converting to 4:4:4 - see from note below why, definitely leave any conversions to the projector

UHD 101: Demystifying 4K, UHD Blu Ray, wide color gamut, HDR, 4:4:4, 18Gbps and the rest! - Acoustic Frontiers

Read this comprehensive article to learn almost everything you might want to know about UHD, including 4K, UHD Blu Ray, wide color gamut, HDR, 4:4:4, 18Gbps

www.acousticfrontiers.com

"There is no intrinsic benefit to the source upsampling to 4:4:4 or converting to RGB. With respect to UHD and HDMI it is actually beneficial if the conversion to 4:2:2, 4:4:4 and RGB is, as much as possible, left to the display, as this reduces the HDMI bandwidth requirements."


if running denon or marantz if you just leave it factory theres nothing to worry about, same with panasonic players - leave to factory setting - select 4k 50/60 with source. oppo also factory setting works just fine. if its apple tv 4k, I have posted my settings (just matching source for rate and range) and that doesnt have any banding going on this is with jvc though

I wonder if you can post your players and 4k ATV setting ?, maybe in the JVC thread ?. I’m sure I’ve everything set to 4.4.4.

 

[alebonau]

I wonder if you can post your players and 4k ATV setting ?, maybe in the JVC thread ?. I’m sure I’ve everything set to 4.4.4.

no problem can do, i posted the apple tv 4k setting with a screen shot on the previous page of this thread. both pana and oppo disc players will get get same as me if factory reset

 

[Slinkywizard]

if running denon or marantz if you just leave it factory theres nothing to worry about, same with panasonic players - leave to factory setting - select 4k 50/60 with source. oppo also factory setting works just fine. if its apple tv 4k, I have posted my settings (just matching source for rate and range) and that doesnt have any banding going on this is with jvc though

Don't know about Marantz as I've never owned one but I've owned every flagship Denon (that represents a significant upgrade) since the early 2000s and I can tell you categorically that the newer models are set to 'Standard Format' for all ins and outs out of the box and you absolutely must go into the menus to change that to 'Enhanced Format'. Sometimes my X8500 even switches back to Standard Format during major updates (and reference in the audio settings, I normally have this set to flat).