Sony VPL-VW590ES 4K SXRD Projector Review & Comments

I'm not insulted. They're not my measurements and you are free to go find the video on YouTube and use the comments section to criticise the person from Kino Zuhause, who tests projectors for a living, by pointing out that a projector that costs twice as much and that he wasn't talking about has better black levels.
If you see numbers like that you know something is up, ambient light, error readings, or a badly adjusted projector.
What im trying to tell you is that something is off in that test, and you should go get your data elsewhere for that sort of comparison.
You need to be sceptical to the information you dig out online, compare it to your own experience and measurements, its to easy to make a video that is patching SONY owners or potential buyers on the bag, making them think the black level difference between JVC and SONY is insignificant. when all other data points in the other direction.

If it makes you feel better to think its the same, and your then more happy with your projector, then you should believe whatever you want, just hold back trying to preach it to the part of the world who actually know how it really is.
 

DB9S

Well-known Member
Indeed. In one German test you can find on YouTube, the tester measures the black level on a 760, and 870 and an N7. They measured 0.008 nits, 0.007, and 0.006 respectively.

Take from that what you will, but he comments that the difference in black levels is not visible to the human eye. This, and much other evidence suggests to me there is an embedded notion of 'better blacks on JVC' that is either no longer true or was never universally, or by any significant degree, true in the first place.

And remember also that your black level need only measure a couple of points lower to add thousands to the generally accepted contrast level.

My personal view is that there isn't much, if anything, in it.
Bear in mind those figures are only for those particular units too.
Some will be better and some worse.
JVCs use wire grid polarisers and a thicker LC layer, that slows response but improves native black (lack of reflected light).
Many have reported blacks being crushed on JVCs but that gets kind of glossed over (especially on that other site). In truth, any JVCs I have ever seen have not presented blacks with any real world difference to a Sony in the same situation.
Sony does tend to eek out more shadow detail from my experience.
OMMV.
 

DB9S

Well-known Member
Have you seen any side by side comaprison? I haven't, unfortunately.
Yes and very dark scenes are the only point JVC have an advantage simply due to their tech and how our eyes work.
This new lot may change that, but we will have to wait a few months to see for sure.
 

DB9S

Well-known Member
Please don't be insulted, but you are a very tiring poster. Some measurements of a projector I didn't mention, wasn't citing, and didn't talk about, by a different party, under different test conditions adds literally nothing to the conversation.
Indeed. Strids is an excellent technical poster who contributes much to these halls and has a projector museum that I would very much like to visit.
But, hijacking conversations to ask about where you got the anecdotal figures you quote and how were the tests carried out etc, is just way off base. It is obvious that we are not the ones who carried out the tests and yet we are quizzed as to their veracity.
Bonkers.
 

Slinkywizard

Well-known Member
Bear in mind those figures are only for those particular units too.
Some will be better and some worse.
JVCs use wire grid polarisers and a thicker LC layer, that slows response but improves native black (lack of reflected light).
Many have reported blacks being crushed on JVCs but that gets kind of glossed over (especially on that other site). In truth, any JVCs I have ever seen have not presented blacks with any real world difference to a Sony in the same situation.
Sony does tend to eek out more shadow detail from my experience.
OMMV.
Yeah, that's my take away too. The JVCs I had demoed to me over the years have struggled for near-black detail. Also, I've put someone on ignore for the first time ever on this forum. I never lecture people on a subject about which the other party's experience and/or expertise is not known. Always wise never to try that.
 

Harold88

Member
Yes and very dark scenes are the only point JVC have an advantage

Are you talking about the NX line or the eshifters? From all the information I could find, eshifters measure way better in very dark scenes than both Sony and JVC native 4k's.
 

DB9S

Well-known Member
Then please dont get insulted when i say that the measurements you posted was completely useless, as it was only a fraction of the information needed to be useful.
Sony always had fairly poor on off contrast performance,
But they weren't useless in the context of the conversation in hand.
We aren't all like you in watching stuff with a light meter in one hand and colourimeter in the other and flicking over to test patterns every three seconds.
I bought my stuff for enjoyment and if my image can be bettered by something else, then great, but what I have looks super bloody awesome in my room Thanks very much. :):cool:
 

DB9S

Well-known Member
You need to be sceptical to the information you dig out online, compare it to your own experience and measurements, its to easy to make a video that is patching SONY owners or potential buyers on the bag, making them think the black level difference between JVC and SONY is insignificant. when all other data points in the other direction.

If it makes you feel better to think its the same, and your then more happy with your projector, then you should believe whatever you want, just hold back trying to preach it to the part of the world who actually know how it really is.
Numbers can say what they want, but it is how things present and are perceived that matters. And that can be very different from raw numbers.
 
Numbers can say what they want, but it is how things present and are perceived that matters. And that can be very different from raw numbers.
Agree. but when presenting numbers its also very important to have a good understanding of how they were made, who and why, just passing on on information online without understanding the basics is a receipt for confusion and misinformation.
I think its great to discuss this nr, and understand why many try to make sense of it, the problem is when people use them to document that there is or is no difference between D and G, without understanding the complexity of what they are talking about.
 

DB9S

Well-known Member
Are you talking about the NX line or the eshifters? From all the information I could find, eshifters measure way better in very dark scenes than both Sony and JVC native 4k's.
The e-shifter 1080 machines of yore were/are the benchmark for black levels. They surpass the new JVCs as well by a large margin.
They had so much contrast that black detail would have just been able to be represented even with the dimmer machines.
1080 panels can do higher contrast due to the larger pixel gaps. 4K chips will never have as much contrast with current LCoS tech.
The 4K JVCs are much closer to Sony than the narrative sells us. What I have seen backs this up, but that will simply be dismissed by some. I can only go by what and how I see things though. :)
 

DB9S

Well-known Member
Agree. but when presenting numbers its also very important to have a good understanding of how they were made, who and why, just passing on on information online without understanding the basics is a receipt for confusion and misinformation.
I think its great to discuss this nr, and understand why many try to make sense of it, the problem is when people use them to document that there is or is no difference between D and G, without understanding the complexity of what they are talking about.
Any numbers quoted should be used as ballpark only. Viewing for oneself is THE only way to see if what has been learned stacks up.
 
Any numbers quoted should be used as ballpark only. Viewing for oneself is THE only way to see if what has been learned stacks up.
Numbers should not be quoted if the one quoting them cant explain in detail how they came to life and put them into the right context, and know at least the basics of how to produce measurement alike.
 

DB9S

Well-known Member
Numbers should not be quoted if the one quoting them cant explain in detail how they came to life and put them into the right context, and know at least the basics of how to produce measurement alike.
Why not?
One assumes that the person who came to them needs to have that information.
You have subsumed the conversation into the technicalities of taking measurements over what was being discussed in much more general terms.
It is on the asker of the question to verify and do due diligence on any information offered by anyone. They, nor the person who offered the third party figures (that aren't simply out of thin air obviously (which these weren't)), need to know how those numbers were attained.
 

DB9S

Well-known Member
So, do you know any site that will provide numbers along with a good explanation about how they came to life?
That was aimed at Strids I assume, but off the top of my head:
  • This site
  • Sound and Vision
  • Projector Reviews
spring to mind.
 
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Why not?
One assumes that the person who came to them needs to have that information.
You have subsumed the conversation into the technicalities of taking measurements over what was being discussed in much more general terms.
It is on the asker of the question to verify and do due diligence on any information offered by anyone. They, nor the person who offered the third party figures (that aren't simply out of thin air obviously (which these weren't)), need to know how those numbers were attained.
If you have any experience with contrast measurements you will understand that there is a lot of factors, even with the best equipment, and when understanding those factors and looking at those black level measurements earlier, one will have to be able to conclude that i should not try to use those to document that SONY and JVC have an almost equal black level.

I think this one summons it up quite well.

 

Harold88

Member
Sound and Vision

To be honest I dived in many times but their measurements are extremely confusing. Most times it's hard for me to understand if they measured on/off native or with dynamic iris on or whatever. They tend to mix stuff and this makes things confusing.

From their test Epson UB 5050 was measured at a slightly higher on/off compared to Sony 285 Es not to mention a lot of other things, like the review of LG810 where they provide only measurements done with dynamic iris.
 

DB9S

Well-known Member
If you have any experience with contrast measurements you will understand that there is a lot of factors, even with the best equipment, and when understanding those factors and looking at those black level measurements earlier, one will have to be able to conclude that i should not try to use those to document that SONY and JVC have an almost equal black level.

I think this one summons it up quite well.

I understand your viewpoint, but it is outside of what was being discussed.
Also not sure that article is relevant unless it is a backhanded way of attempting a cheap insult.
I will read that article next time I am using trouble sleeping though, thanks.
I'm oot.
 

DB9S

Well-known Member
To be honest I dived in many times but their measurements are extremely confusing. Most times it's hard for me to understand if they measured on/off native or with dynamic iris on or whatever. They tend to mix stuff and this makes things confusing.

From their test Epson UB 5050 was measured at a slightly higher on/off compared to Sony 285 Es not to mention a lot of other things, like the review of LG810 where they provide only measurements done with dynamic iris.
Fair enough. As you have by now no doubt ascertained, this is a complex and emotive subject.
Good luck finding what you seek.
:thumbsup:
:)
 

Harold88

Member
Good luck finding what you seek.

One of the few sites I found and I tend to turst the information is written in polish (google is doing a decent translation)
hdtv polska. com/sony-vpl-vw570es- test-natywny-projektor-4k60hz-ultra-hd-z-hdr/12/
hdtv polska. com/jvc-dla-rs540- test-projektora-4k-na-2018-z-eshift-5-ultra-hd-i-hdr/10/
hdtv polska. com/epson-eh-tw9400- test-kolejny-hit-w-swojej-klasie-projektor-2019-ultra-hd-4k60hz/

Unfortunately there are no new tests done by them. I don't know why.

There is only one new test but nothing about NX Line for example.
 

waypost

Standard Member
One of the few sites I found and I tend to turst the information is written in polish (google is doing a decent translation)
hdtv polska. com/sony-vpl-vw570es- test-natywny-projektor-4k60hz-ultra-hd-z-hdr/12/
hdtv polska. com/jvc-dla-rs540- test-projektora-4k-na-2018-z-eshift-5-ultra-hd-i-hdr/10/
hdtv polska. com/epson-eh-tw9400- test-kolejny-hit-w-swojej-klasie-projektor-2019-ultra-hd-4k60hz/

Unfortunately there are no new tests done by them. I don't know why.

There is only one new test but nothing about NX Line for example.
https://hdtvpolska-com.translate.go...l=pl&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui,sc Thanks for the polish link, this is what I got out of it, whether true or false who knows? Deep black, high contrast - great black, quiet operation and great convenience of projector installation - On / off The projector's ability to display alternating black and white 14,000: 1 - on / off + dynamic iris the ability of the projector to display alternating black and white along with dynamic iris assist which dims a black image 150,000: 1 ****** This is not part of the polish review but how can the sony get this award being it is no where near as good as the JVC models?
eisa-award-sony-vpl-vw590es.png
this is the only reason I am even considering the 590es over a N5
 

DB9S

Well-known Member
One major advantage that Sony currently has over JVC, is that Sony actually have units available. None of the new JVC's are currently available and the NX line are running out.
 

waypost

Standard Member
One major advantage that Sony currently has over JVC, is that Sony actually have units available. None of the new JVC's are currently available and the NX line are running out.
Yes I am finding that out where I am as well, I have an option on the one and only available N5 due in a week from now or one of the 3 in stock vw590es projectors. Thing is the N5 is $600 more than the Sony which has always been more expensive but is now discounted according to this one shop because it got the EISA award... have tried the used market but it is slim pickings, people are just not letting go of the JVC`s. The not so cheap NZ7 is due on the 20th of December but the price is a little scary.
 
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