Sony VPL-VW590ES 4K SXRD Projector Review & Comments

Harold88

Member
Thanks for the reply DB9S, I was not asking for figures.. I have them and they are all over the place... one site has native on/off at 9,000:1 another has on/off at 15,000:1

I belive that 9000:1 is measured with iris full open and full zoom but who knows...
 

DB9S

Well-known Member
Thanks for the reply DB9S, I was not asking for figures.. I have them and they are all over the place... one site has native on/off at 9,000:1 another has on/off at 15,000:1 I was merely wondering what an owner thought about the black levels they see at home watching something with the projector. It does not take an expert to see if the black levels are bad mediocre or good. I am going from a 55es to something better. I like the sharpness of the Sony projectors but if the blacks are just marginally better on the 590 then I will get the N5........... p.s. I have a Batcave environment
In light of your post above, I would say that the blacks of the 590 are likely better than the 55.
The dynamic system used by the Sony is the most artefact free I have seen. They are very effective in general.
However, in your environment, you would definitely benefit from the JVCs contrast.
In most scenes the Sony will have better contrast, but at the very lowest levels the JVC is better.
Very personal if you crave the deepest blacks above all else.
The Sony will have better motion and lower lag times (if you are into gaming).
If possible see them both in action, however on paper the N5 has the 590 beat in most aspects.
 
o_O

Oh deary, here you go again.
You are asking that like I undertook the measurements myself. I didn't.
I am just reiterating a range figures I have read over time that people have measured, to help the asker of the question.
Please ask God as to how those tests were carried out, as I have absolutely zero idea.
K? Thanks. :confused::(
Dont you find it a bit problematic to post nr that you dont know what means?

I find it very confusing. And im truly curious as i never personally measured a sony with a native open iris calibrated contrast that high. I can only think it might be max closed iris contrast. And yes it makes a difference.
 
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Thanks for the reply DB9S, I was not asking for figures.. I have them and they are all over the place... one site has native on/off at 9,000:1 another has on/off at 15,000:1 I was merely wondering what an owner thought about the black levels they see at home watching something with the projector. It does not take an expert to see if the black levels are bad mediocre or good. I am going from a 55es to something better. I like the sharpness of the Sony projectors but if the blacks are just marginally better on the 590 then I will get the N5........... p.s. I have a Batcave environment
Its important to keep in mind that there is hyge sample tolerances. Personally i prefer the capability of the JVC to turn off all artificial processing. The sony might look a bit sharper but i find that a artificial digital sharpness. Both sony and jvc can have big contrast and color uniformity issues. JVC have a huge advantage in regard to bit graduation on screen and calibration capabilities. And not least contrast. No matter what make sure you buy online so you have 14 days full return right. Specially JVC have horrible service on tolerance issues.
 

AndyC_772

Active Member
For what it's worth, I found my Sony very artifically sharp out of the box... really not nice to watch at all.

I spent a while setting it up, and now it's anything but.
 

DB9S

Well-known Member
Dont you find it a bit problematic to post nr that you dont know what means?

I find it very confusing. And im truly curious as i never personally measured a sony with a native open iris calibrated contrast that high. I can only think it might be max closed iris contrast. And yes it makes a difference.
Not really,.
I have no way to control what contrast people measured or what circumstances they measured them under.
Just doing my best to help another member. Even though it is now evident the numbers weren't what they were looking for anyway.
 

DB9S

Well-known Member
For what it's worth, I found my Sony very artifically sharp out of the box... really not nice to watch at all.

I spent a while setting it up, and now it's anything but.
That is the beauty of being able to adjust such things. Some like things super sharp. Others do not. C'est La Vie.
 

waypost

Standard Member
For what it's worth, I found my Sony very artifically sharp out of the box... really not nice to watch at all.

I spent a while setting it up, and now it's anything but.
well then if the sony is too sharp?? then I guess it would make sense to wait it out until the NZ7 hits the stores and be done with any future upgrades...
 

Slinkywizard

Well-known Member
The black levels and contrast are incredibly good on these Sonys. I should know, I've had six of them. As for numbers? Honestly who cares? Environmental factors play such a huge part. In my very dark, batcave room the contrast and black levels are the best I've seen on any projector period, and until someone wheels a pallet of assorted alternative projectors at the same price level as my Sony to show me that in MY environment it is outperformed in some way, then that is what it will always be. The best I've ever seen.
 

DB9S

Well-known Member
The black levels and contrast are incredibly good on these Sonys. I should know, I've had six of them. As for numbers? Honestly who cares? Environmental factors play such a huge part. In my very dark, batcave room the contrast and black levels are the best I've seen on any projector period, and until someone wheels a pallet of assorted alternative projectors at the same price level as my Sony to show me that in MY environment it is outperformed in some way, then that is what it will always be. The best I've ever seen.
Some very pertinent points. I wholeheartedly agree.
You can chase and chase and chase the 'perfect' display, but it doesn't exist.
As long as it improves on what you had before in a meaningful way then peeps need to enjoy what they have. None at this level are crap.
The eclipse is the perfect display I hear you cry? Well, no it isn't. Have you seen how hard it is to accommodate?
Yes my Sony also produces a picture that really does need nitpicking to better. And with moving images where artefacts and 'issues' can be so fleeting, does it really matter?
 
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waypost

Standard Member
The black levels and contrast are incredibly good on these Sonys. I should know, I've had six of them. As for numbers? Honestly who cares? Environmental factors play such a huge part. In my very dark, batcave room the contrast and black levels are the best I've seen on any projector period, and until someone wheels a pallet of assorted alternative projectors at the same price level as my Sony to show me that in MY environment it is outperformed in some way, then that is what it will always be. The best I've ever seen.
Thank You Slinkywizard, good to get a users opinion, have you had the 590? I see you are running a 870 laser unit 🙂
 

Slinkywizard

Well-known Member
Thank You Slinkywizard, good to get a users opinion, have you had the 590? I see you are running a 870 laser unit 🙂
I've had a 260, a 360, a 760, two 790s and now an 870. All of these projectors have fantastic black levels and picture generally, but for all of them, equally, you will need a dark, dark, preferably batcave room to make consistent use of the black floor.
 

Slinkywizard

Well-known Member
Some very pertinent points. I wholeheartedly agree.
You can chase and chase and chase the 'perfect' display, but it doesn't exist.
As long as it improves on what you had before in a meaningful way then peeps need to enjoy what they have. None at this level are crap.
The eclipse is the perfect display I hear you cry? Well, no it isn't. Have you seen how hard it is to accommodate?
Yes my Sony also produces a picture that really does need nitpicking to better. And with moving images where artefacts and 'issues' can be so fleeting, does it really matter?
Totally. And let's not forget also that the closer you get to the 'perfect picture' which as you say doesn't exist, the more disappointed you will become with the less than 1% of content that really makes the most of it.

Garbage in, garbage out is still true even on an Eclipse. So I do think there is a sweet spot after which the chase is no longer worth the premium. I've exceeded that for sure, but I'm also enormously pleased with my purchase. Even though I'm wowed 1% of the time with that 1% of reference native 4K HDR content.

So, although it may seem contrary to my particular journey, that's the wisdom I would pass on from my experience. It's also why measurements are only useful for comparing models, and only when tested with the same tools in the same testing environment. Any measurement that doesn't fit that criteria is numberwang.
 

Harold88

Member
One thing I don't quite understand about the black levels of Sony.

If we analyze the contrast measurements of Sony and JVC in dark scenes, let's say at 1-3% ADL, on paper they look somehow simmilar. Why, than JVC blacks are deeper here?

Is it becouse Sony is elevating a bit near black in order to save more shadow details and avoid black crush?
 

Slinkywizard

Well-known Member
One thing I don't quite understand about the black levels of Sony.

If we analyze the contrast measurements of Sony and JVC in dark scenes, let's say at 1-3% ADL, on paper they look somehow simmilar. Why, than JVC blacks are deeper here?

Is it becouse Sony is elevating a bit near black in order to save more shadow details and avoid black crush?
Indeed. In one German test you can find on YouTube, the tester measures the black level on a 760, and 870 and an N7. They measured 0.008 nits, 0.007, and 0.006 respectively.

Take from that what you will, but he comments that the difference in black levels is not visible to the human eye. This, and much other evidence suggests to me there is an embedded notion of 'better blacks on JVC' that is either no longer true or was never universally, or by any significant degree, true in the first place.

And remember also that your black level need only measure a couple of points lower to add thousands to the generally accepted contrast level.

My personal view is that there isn't much, if anything, in it.
 

Slinkywizard

Well-known Member
Have you seen any side by side comaprison? I haven't, unfortunately.
No, just those measurements for direct comparison at Kino Zuhause on YouTube. You'll need German to understand the vid, though. Luckily I'm half German so no problem for me.
 
Indeed. In one German test you can find on YouTube, the tester measures the black level on a 760, and 870 and an N7. They measured 0.008 nits, 0.007, and 0.006 respectively.

Take from that what you will, but he comments that the difference in black levels is not visible to the human eye. This, and much other evidence suggests to me there is an embedded notion of 'better blacks on JVC' that is either no longer true or was never universally, or by any significant degree, true in the first place.

And remember also that your black level need only measure a couple of points lower to add thousands to the generally accepted contrast level.

My personal view is that there isn't much, if anything, in it.
First you need to understand how these measurements were made, the black level is changing with screen size, dynamic iris or dimming.
The nr your posting above seems to indicate low contrast all around, we dont know the light output to calculate a contrast, but if we just go with a nice round nr, lets say 100 nit divided with 0.006nit 16666:1 thats low for a jvc so we have to belive it was brighter, or a bad unit.

JVC will roughly have double contrast compared to a SONY or more. +- sample tolerances.

You clearly see the difference when you run a JVC and a SONY side by side calibrated equal, ill recommend trying it.

This is Didriks measurement of the JVC NZ9, black level 0,0016
NZ9.png
 
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Slinkywizard

Well-known Member
First you need to understand how these measurements were made, the black level is changing with screen size, dynamic iris or dimming.
The nr your posting above seems to indicate low contrast all around, we dont know the light output to calculate a contrast, but if we just go with a nice round nr, lets say 100 nit divided with 0.006nit 16666:1 thats low for a jvc so we have to belive it was brighter, or a bad unit.

JVC will roughly have double contrast compared to a SONY or more. +- sample tolerances.

You clearly see the difference when you run a JVC and a SONY side by side calibrated equal, ill recommend trying it.

This is Didriks measurement of the JVC NZ9, black level 0,0016

Please don't be insulted, but you are a very tiring poster. Some measurements of a projector I didn't mention, wasn't citing, and didn't talk about, by a different party, under different test conditions adds literally nothing to the conversation.
 
Please don't be insulted, but you are a very tiring poster. Some measurements of a projector I didn't mention, wasn't citing, and didn't talk about, by a different party, under different test conditions adds literally nothing to the conversation.
Then please dont get insulted when i say that the measurements you posted was completely useless, as it was only a fraction of the information needed to be useful.
Sony always had fairly poor on off contrast performance,
 

Slinkywizard

Well-known Member
Then please dont get insulted when i say that the measurements you posted was completely useless, as it was only a fraction of the information needed to be useful.
Sony always had fairly poor on off contrast performance,
I'm not insulted. They're not my measurements and you are free to go find the video on YouTube and use the comments section to criticise the person from Kino Zuhause, who tests projectors for a living, by pointing out that a projector that costs twice as much and that he wasn't talking about has better black levels.
 

DB9S

Well-known Member
It's also why measurements are only useful for comparing models, and only when tested with the same tools in the same testing environment. Any measurement that doesn't fit that criteria is numberwang.
Indeed. Numbers don't tell the whole story.
An Ariel Atom for example is nowhere near as powerful as many supercars, but it can pan the pants off them on a track where point to point, it is devastatingly fast and hard to beat.

Life is all about compromise of some sort.
Even the super rich, who can buy literally anything at a moments notice, have to compromise on that sense of achievement and satisfaction that comes with striving a little (or a lot) for that special thing that you know you will never have two of.
 

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