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Sony VPL 10HT

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Boris Blank, Oct 24, 2000.

  1. Boris Blank

    Boris Blank
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    Just got my 10HT from PRC, £4400 inc vat. Out of the box its a superb picture - yes, tweaking will no doubt improve it somewhat but I'm impressed I must say. One dead pixel, invisible from about 5-6 feet away.

    Blacks are not as bad as expected, picture does look a tad washed out compared to the telly but all in all the results are spectacular at 8 feet across :¬)

    Fan noise is bearly audible (projector is roof mounted). Took me ten minutes from opening the box to having it mounted on the ceiling and up and running! Sony 7700 feeding the monster with a component output. £4.4k - a bargain!
    Paul
     
  2. LV426

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    Agree, agree, agree!!!!

    Mine's a few months old. 225 hours use. One bad green pixel just visible from 7 feet. One bad blue pixel invisible beyond about 2 feet (on an 8 foot wide screen). £4150 from Germany (inc carriage etc.) 10 minutes from opening the box to working (followed by 2 days DIY to install it and the screen on the ceiling).

    Highly recommended.

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    You should not drink and bake.....
     
  3. DerrickB

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    Is this a standard thing, these "Dead Pixels"? it seems you both have spent a lot of money for a product that has a defect in the first few months of operation!! and you seem happy about it!!. Now I read something about these dead pixel defects somtime ago, Having been a CRT projector user for sometime, I'm in a position where I'm having to sell my CRT and get something smaller due to moving to a smaller room. I was thinking of LCD, but now, may be not!.
     
  4. LV426

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    LCD devices consist of a huge number of LCD elements (pixels) each of which is driven by a transistor. The Sony 10HT has 3 LCD panels each with just over a million pixels. It is impossible to manufacture, reliably, completely defect free LCD panels. So, most LCD devices will have one or more failed pixels. If you get one without, you're lucky. It wouldn't be cost-effective to discard all LCDs with bad pixels, so manufacturers take a view on what's acceptable, and let them go with a few.

    The point, however, is, that they don't intrude, unless they are many and badly positioned. I don't notice mine at all. After all, it's less than a millionth of the screen size - a tiny pin prick in an otherwise virtually flawless image. I've NEVER EVER seen a CRT picture that comes anywhere close on geometry, stability, or convergence.
     
  5. Boris Blank

    Boris Blank
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    Derrick,
    Dead pixels can't be seen from a distance of 5 feet or more. Given that the LCD panels have something like 3 MILLION pixels, you have to expect one or two aren't going to be working properly. Its more of a prestige thing than a genuine problem, "my Sony's got no dead pixels" is like saying my car's a BMW!

    You'd be VERY unlucky to have more than one or two problem pixels and VERY VERY VERY unlucky if they were situated someplace visible, like the center of the screen (in which case you could get a replacement projector from your dealer).

    Go get a good demo and see what its like for yourself, you might like it!
    Paul
     
  6. Black 5

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    Don't judge the picture of this projector until you've done some set up work - I was amazed at the improvement a few hours and an Avia disc could do and, like you, I thought it was pretty good out the box.

    You need to access the service menus - go to thebigpicturedvd website and download their excellent FAQ on this projector for more info.
     
  7. Rob

    Rob
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    With regards to Nigels post. I was interested to hear you have never seen a CRT projector with as good geometry as the Sony LCD. You, like many other people have probably never seen a CRT projector properly set up. If they are done correctly there is no comparisom between CRT & LCD (IMO anyway)
    I went and had a look at the Sony on display on release and although I was impressed , they simply dont have the contrast range. The display model was set up basically for demo purposes (they were using lost in space I think) and the contrast was set low. It looked great.
    I then put in my own disc (twister).The dark scenes were again very good, but as soon as a daylight scene was introduced, it looked very dark, and you know the story. Up the contrast level, loose the black!
    I guess its what you are used to. Its just a shame most people never see a properly set up machine, If they are done properly they are great.
    Regards Rob.
     
  8. Guest

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    What`s so good about this Sony projector. Have you seen the Davis Cinevision DLP projector? I know there are both disadvantages and advantages with DLP and LCD but in my views there are no LCD projectors has good has DLP`s. The main problem with LCD is the dust contamintion
     
  9. LV426

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    .....and the main problem with DLPs is an irritating rainbow effect which results from the colour wheel technique they use to avoid having to put 3 DMD chips in it.

    As for CRTs - the very fact that I've never seen one "properly set up" is enough to put me off. Anything that needs "properly setting up" is going to drift out of adjustment from time to time and need doing again. I'm sure that the reason most demo machines aren't right is precisely because of this. They were, once, but aren't any more.
     
  10. Dodgey

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    I went to thebigpicturedvd.com web site but could only find a faq on the older sony projector? (400HT or similar)
     
  11. Stewart C

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    The Sony Projector seems to offer exceptional value for money considering the quality of the image. It's not perfect by any means but not bad for most people. The amount of analysis and chat on the AVS Forum and the unofficial Sony projector website means that all the information you could ever want is available for this machine.

    I have this problem when talking to some people about projectors. For example, You speak to the 'professionals' from the magazines, I won't name them but they have really nice cosy adverts in the main magazines, ask them for advice about projectors. The conversation goes something like this..."Oh Sir, £10k upwards for a 'good' but not 'great' projector and another £4k to £6k for a motorised Stewart screen.

    Now this sport may seem a little elitest to some people, but I genuinely feel that with companies like Sony (who as I said ain't perfect) and Toshiba are able to build a projector for under £6k to the quality it is. This is starting to give the people who love this sport a real opportunity to fulfil a dream and move from the 32" or 36" TV.

    With regards to the Sony projector, I saw an excellent demo at Stereo Stereo in Glasgow where they had a Sony and a Runco CRT set up side by side. This meant I could tell instantly the difference between the two.

    The Runco was better than the Sony as you would expect. However, at £17k it should be. The line doubler was not attached to the Runco that day (out on loan) so the image was affected by line structure. I personally couldn't justify this extra expense. After the purchase I could then go and buy a £30k scaler to attach for the best pictures.

    The black issue is an issue worth discussion and it won't go away, but the pictures I saw were breathtaking.

    Unless something better comes my way before I purchase my projector, the Sony does it for me.

    Before any of you go daft about other reasonably priced machines, e.g. the Elle/Seleco 200HT I haven't seen them so I can't comment on them.

    Regards



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    Stewart C

    An amateur but an enthusiast
     
  12. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Stewart, I was reading this thinking, "Oh my God, he hated the dem" Then I kept reading and it seems you liked it after all! Now I just wonder whether we should class ourselves as "professionals" ;-)

    Any dealer who thinks you have to spend over £10,000 for a decent picture is dillusional or has very, very high standards. I tend to think that the dealer who says spend £10,000 + probably couldn't make a decent picture for less than that anyway!!! (now I'm in trouble)

    Projectorman: What's so great about a SonyLCD. Well, the big way it scores over the wee Davis DLP's is because of the aforementioned rainbow effect(present on Davis and all Davis clones I've seen. In fact every single chipped DLP i've seen except the new Seleco), the halo effect (same again), the noise and the fact it can re-scale a 4:3 image to fit within a 16:9 shaped screen (actually my favourite trick). Other than that it hasn't got much going for it at all.....


    Gordon


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  13. Stewart C

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    Gordon

    Yes I did enjoy the demo, I think your facilities are excellent. Pity I didn't get to meet you on that day but I guess you are allowed an occasional holiday, but as you are aware of my future plans I am sure we will meet up at some point.

    I was disappointed in the Runco but then you did lend out the scaler to someone (customer services) so I didn't see it at it's best.

    What I thought was really good on my visit, and my mate agreed, (he is not easily pleased) as stated previously, was the fact that the projectors' could be changed in a matter of seconds with a freeze frame on Lethal Weapon 4 I think it was. This way I could determine the difference in picture definition, blacks etc. It was obvious but the SOny was still good. Are you planning to sell and set up the Seleco 200HT ? If so when can I come up and have a look ?

    I know from current experience that you and your collegues are not just in it for the bucks (nice that they can be). My impression was that if you say at the time you have less than £8k to spend the reply was "lets see what the best is for this price if not less". I was not asked whether I should consider spending £17k on the Runco. Perhaps I looked like Mr no cash !!

    With regards to my slight disparaging comment to some businesses out there, I don't mean to be too critical as I could just be unlucky but it is a downer when they talk about £10k upwards as a minimum for a projector (I don't doubt this, however, cheaper alternatives do exist).

    To be honest, I can't recall a full page advertisement in the mags for Stereo Stereo especially with the cosy photographs with £50k upwards installations. It would be nice if the Companies had people in the photo's who look as if they are enjoying themselves !!

    In my limited experience, You and your collegues seem professionals' in the true sense of the word, you know what you are talking about (most of the time - no one knows everything about everything) and your collegues seem to know this too. The other 'professionals' (in quotes) in my opinion do not.

    Regards



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    Stewart C

    An amateur but an enthusiast
     
  14. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Stewart,

    Once we've seen a Seleco HT200 in teh shop we will make a decision on stocking. They'll have to have done sonmething pretty terminal to it for us not to carry them I think.

    We were never that fussed with the Runco in the shop anyway. It was a very old model on loan. An 852....It actaully has a built in line doubler that was working the day you saw it. It's really needs more than doubling though which is why you saw scan lines. The other problem with it is that it is incapable of replaying PAL DVD. So, it has been replaced. My favourite monent when we had it working really well was the day some guys from the US came in. They were from a company that did $1,000,000 + with Runco. They saw the picture we achieved with the 852 and were astounded, hahaha.

    We can outperfrom the 852 with a Seleco 800HT and scaler fro less. I've yet to see the current Runco equivalent, based on a Barco chassis.

    Anyway, I'll email you once we've got a Seleco DLP or not.

    Gorodn

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  15. charles

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    gordon,nice to see that you agree with me-re;-better performance not necessarily equating to more money-my point exactly!!!!!

    The sony lcd has its place..and its true,even the best crt`s are a pain in the arse....BUT..i believe all the tinkering is worth it....as an analogy i would liken lcd owners to vauxhall owners-they want a reasonable performance for reasonable money...whereas crt owners aim for the BEST performance-as would an aston martin owner..
    say no more...........
     
  16. LV426

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    yeah, well, I'm a real advocate of the VW10HT; think it's magnificent and good value. And I drive a Toyota that I've had for 11 years/100,000+ miles from new, and I don't tinker with it.......and it's never broken down and all the electric windows and mirrors still work and all the light bulbs are original and.......(sorry - off the subject).
     
  17. charles

    charles
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    the sony has its place near the top of the lcd tree(..it aint 2 grand better than the toshiba lcd though..)
    BUT ..its at the bottom of the crt tree in terms of picture quality-sure its plug and play out of the box-and you might not need to tinker with it as much as a crt-but guess what,when your bulb is burning low,,and your pictures getting dimmer-ill still have about 4000 hours on mine.

    Sometimes to get the absolute in picture quality you have to invest more-in terms of time-so what..its my hobby-i enjoy getting the optimum i can-i dont want a pixelated..digitised.. grey..cartoon picture..my crt resolves past 6.3mhz-whilst the sony struggles with 5.8mhz-in real terms that means that your not missing any detail-but the trouble is,if you dont know what your missing-you wont miss it!!!!

    Same with cars...
     

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