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Sony vph1292 & powerstrip settings

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by gpender, Feb 15, 2005.

  1. gpender

    gpender
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    Can anyone help me with what powerstrip settings they use with this projector or similar...........
    There seems to be no "single" native resolution with this PJ as you'd imagine and I'd like to get an idea what peoples settings are around this or similar PJs (G90) etc (previously I had massive overscan problems)

    As a side note (though this question might be more at home in the progressive or HTPC forum) At what sort of resolutions do things start to level out in terms of perceived difference in quality or in what's possible for a scaler to handle...........given that the Sony can theoritically handle massive resolutions........
     
  2. Tim Cooper

    Tim Cooper
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    Greg,
    I don't know how much you know so forgive the "beginners answers" ;)
    My Barco does 720p (1280x720) natively, it can go much higher but the sweetspot is 720p.
    Yours being a 9inch beasty i would hazard a sweetspot at 960p (1440x960) fairly straight forward using powerstrip to get that resolution, the hard bit is setting up your PJ to that resolution.
    Dont forget to set your refresh rates to whatever TV standard your watching i.e 71.928hz for NTSC film 75hz for Pal film 60hz for HI-DEF.
    Let us know how you get on.
    Tim.
     
  3. Erling

    Erling
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    Greg (if that's your name :) ), I'll tell you about the setups I use for my 1292.

    I found info elsewhere stating that the sweetspot for the 1292 in 16:9 setup is indeed 1440x960 as suggested by Tim. I use this, and have 4:3 setups also, with a resolution of 1440x1152. Originally, I set up the resolutions with refresh rates of 72 and 75 Hz respectively, for NTSC and PAL (thus having 4 different setups all in all).

    The 16:9 setups are done by 'squeezing' the image vertically with the RGB size control on the projector. For this and the 4:3 setups, I use the 4:3 and 16:9 circles in the THX optimizer included on many DVDs. Beware though - just yesterday, I discovered that on the U.K. reg. 2 version of Star Wars:ATOC, the 16:9 circle is wrongly flagged as 4:3... :rolleyes: Caused me some consternation when setting up a new resolution/refresh for NTSC video material. Maybe others could have this error also, so make sure you are indeed seeing 4:3 and 16:9 respectively. I've used the optimizer on Treasure Planet, U.K. reg. 2 before - that one is ok.

    After using the above settings for more than 6 months, I decided to try refresh rates of 48 and 50 Hz instead of 72 and 75 Hz. Had read a lot of positive things about this, but was reluctant to try it, as I'm very sensitive to flicker on CRT computer screens (can't stand looking at a CRT monitor at 60 Hz). The flicker is evident on the projector when looking at the desktop with brighter colors, but much to my surprise, I don't notice it at all when viewing DVDs from my normal seating position.

    It gave a marked improvement in sharpness (very evident if you go back to 72/75 after using 48/50 for a while). The biggest advantage for me though is that it has virtually eliminated my warmup-time. With the higher refresh rates, it would take upwards of 2 hours before the convergence stabilized. With the lower ones, it's very good after a mere half hour.

    If you use this bandwidth calculator: http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/bandwidthcalculator.html
    You will se that the above resolutions with 72/75 Hz refresh gives RGB bandwidths in the 150-190 MHz region, whereas 48/50 falls around 100-125 MHz, which is better suited to the 1292's 120 MHz bandwidth (Some sources says 135 MHz).

    Hope this helps a little. If you like, I could email you an Excel spreadsheet with my exact Powerstrip settings (front porch, back porch etc.). Don't know if it would work for you at all, as these setups are a combination of what the PC throws at the projector and what the projector recognizes, based on what it's been fed before. Do remember to hit 'memory' for each setup on the 1292... ;)

    Cheers,
    Erling
     
  4. JimmytheSaint

    JimmytheSaint
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    Just to chime in that 1440 x 960 is indeed the preferred resolution for NTSC material and I run that at 48Hz on my G-90. Pretty much everything that Erling has stated, I would agree with. Just go with what looks best to you! I use a scaler and am pretty useless with Powerstrip, DScaler, FFDShow etc However, I am investigating the HTPC route for my library of HD material.
     
  5. rob virgo

    rob virgo
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    earling

    good reply , does that info relate to the 1272 as well.dont know how to set the memorys on mine and was thinking about going the pc route for my sony.is powerstrip the software to run the hd or do you need more.

    rob
     
  6. Erling

    Erling
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    Hello Rob,

    I don't have any personal experience with the 1272, but I believe the way it and the 1292 stores various setups in the memory is more or less similar, so you could probably copy the basic principle.

    The 1292 has 8 memory blocks and various input signals are stored in one of the 8 blocks, depending on the horisontal scanning frequency. Each block can hold multiple setups - they're simply grouped together in the block, if the input signal falls within the horisontal scanning frequency interval pertaining to the specific block. When you fine tune the settings for an input signal, it applies to all the setups in the memory block in question.

    Setting the memory is very easy - feed the projector the desired input signal, do your changes to the projector's settings (geometry, convergence etc.). When done, hit the 'memory' key on the remote or the control panel on the projector. Next time you feed the projector the same type of signal, it will recognize it and load the settings from memory.

    For the 1272, I would expect that the resolutions should be lowered a little - what is the percieved sweetspot for the 1272; 720p ?

    Powerstrip is only used to set custom resolutions and refresh rates. You still need your normal videocard drivers and some DVD playback software. I prefer Theatertek myself, but there are many other options too.

    Cheers,
    Erling
     
  7. rob virgo

    rob virgo
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    i have had the projecter set up for me but now feel confident to try to improve it myself.can i save current to mem 1 and do my own settings on say mem 2.if i then make a bags of it i can fall back to mem1.

    cheers

    rob
     
  8. Erling

    Erling
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    Mmmmm, I don't think you can do that - at least not if it's like the 1292.

    You can't control which memory bank the projector stores the setup in. The projector itself determines this based on the horisontal scanning frequency, which in turn depends on the resolution and refresh rate.

    In other words, to make the projector store the setup in a different memory bank, you'll have to feed it a signal different from the original one, so you'll have to change the resolution and/or refresh rate.

    Again, this is assuming it works like the 1292. Maybe someone with more knowledge about the 1272 can chime in ?

    Cheers,
    Erling
     
  9. gpender

    gpender
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    First of all, thanks for the replys :)
    Paticularly Tim, Jimmy and Erling for his fantastic answer.

    Erling if you could send me a spreadsheet of your settings that would be fantastic! (greglego@hotmail.com) :smashin:

    As Tim knows, I'm not in front of the machine at the moment....I've been working away and am about to go home in two weeks , but I want to build my new HTPC in preparation for then....naively I always assumed that a higher refresh would always be better, but I suppose it's more of a "suck it and see" situation.

    I had no idea that the 1292 stored settings in such a way...but then I've never had a manual for it nor tried messing with my own resolutions and saving them (only squeezing the image one way or another, from time to time).....nor have I ever seen a THX optimizer (how do they work....do they provide a grid or something?)

    Wow great stuff, I can't wait :D Any more advice gratefully recieved :)
     
  10. Erling

    Erling
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    Greg, thanks for your kind words - only happy to try and help out fellow CRT'ers :)

    Spreadsheet is on its way.

    The TXH Optimizer is included on many DVDs and is a simple version of the Home Theater test & tune-up DVDs you can buy.

    It contains a number of test screen to help you set contrast, brightness, hue (requires a bluefilter) and various other parameters correctly. Among the testscreens are included two images with a large circle on it - one for 4:3 and one for 16:9. To get the aspect ratio correct, I simply bring up the appropriate circle image and use the RGB size adjustment on the 1292, to get the circle perfectly round (measuring horisontal and vertical diameter on screen).
    Very easy, as long as the darn image is flagged with the correct aspect ratio... :rolleyes:
    Remember to select the correct resolution via Powerstrip before doing this adjustment.

    Forgot to mention - the 48 Hz refresh is in fact 47,952, to best avoid stuttering. (Can't remember the exact technical explanation for this, but has to do with the way movie-sourced NTSC is deinterlaced). It can sometimes be a little difficult to hit the exact refresh rate in Powerstrip, as it tends to alter the decimals slightly by itself when you try to make it accept the value.

    I would also tend to go for higher refresh rates before I got my eye-opener ;), but when I think about it, I've actually seen a similar effect on a 17" CRT monitor I used earlier. It would do 100 Hz refresh in 1024x768, but looked noticeably more smeared at that than at 85 Hz. I used the latter, as this was high enough to eliminate flickering. Guess the morale is that with CRT displays, it pays to use the lowest acceptable refresh rate, as this will put the least strain on the components and give the tube more time to draw the image.

    Cheers,
    Erling
     
  11. Tim Cooper

    Tim Cooper
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    47,952hz refresh is exactly double the NTSC film standard of 23.976 fps,, 71.928hz is exactly 3 times 23.976 fps, we like to keep to whole multiples to avoid sssstutter :D

    I haven't seen this much "action" on the CRT forum for ages :smashin:

    Be careful chaps when using the THX optomizer i was under the impression that it only optomises the disc it was found on although using the geometry settings wouldn't hurt, anyone use the Nokia optomiser?
    Cheers.
    Tim.
     
  12. gpender

    gpender
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    Wait untill two weeks and I move in.....then I'll really start b*ggering things up and then you'll really see some action on here ;)

    The NTSC refresh rates make perfect sense, though I have'nt got a single NTSC film/game or anything so it will all be PAL for me, but I guess the same principle applies.........just as a side note I never understood why so many people (ouside of living in a NTSC region) are so into NTSC films/games? Am I missing something...I mean if PAL, in it's basic form, has more lines surely that would be a better format to work with in the first instance? Is it because region 1 films come out first and invaribly are cheaper that everyone is into them?

    I think I'd only use the optimizer for the geometry side anyway, as that's the right or wrong bit, whereas colour adjustments, I guess, are as much down to personal preference, to a degree, as anything else.

    Knowing my luck, I'll get back to the projector at it will be broken anyhow :rolleyes:
     
  13. Erling

    Erling
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    PAL does have the potential for the best image quality, but in reality, the quality of the transfer is often the defining factor - a mediocre PAL transfer can easily look worse than a good NTSC transfer.

    The biggest reason for most non-native NTSC'ers to prefer the NTSC versions over PAL is the PAL speedup issue. As you no doubt know, film is shot at 24 fps. NTSC video runs at 30 fps, PAL at 25 fps. This means that to transfer film to NTSC video, you to do a fairly complex conversion, called Telecine or 3:2 Pulldown. Look here for a description of how it works: http://www.dvdfile.com/news/special_report/production_a_z/3_2_pulldown.htm

    With PAL, it's more simple, as the 24 fps of the film is simply speeded up to 25 fps. The downside is that the film, including the sound is running 4% too fast. If you're familiar with an actor's voice, or just know a films real soundtrack very well, it can be quite annoying, as the higher pitch and faster speaking is clearly audible. Sometimes a pitch correction is performed, so at least actors and the rest of the sound will sound 'normal', but of course they will still talk too fast and the music will be played too fast etc.

    Personally, if it's a film I'm not very familiar with, I usually don't think about it. If, on the other hand it's one of the films I've had on NTSC laserdisc for years and seen many times, reacquiring it on PAL DVD is usually not a good idea, as the sound is obviously 'wrong' (voices not as deep as they should be, people talking too fast...)

    Can be a bit of a dillemma though, in those cases where PAL has the best image, but NTSC's got the right sound, so maybe I shouldn't have told you... ;)

    Cheers,
    Erling
     

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