Sony VGX-XL100 Review

Stiggy said:
If you set all the fonts to 'large' via Display Appearance and Settings Advanced the pixelation effect should be minimised.

Tried it, doesn't really help, and screws some MCE plugins up. I think changing the DPI helped a little, can't remember now- just gave up!
 
tompat said:
Craig,

You're most probably right - the THOUGHT of being able to surf on a big screen from the sofa is probably better than the experience itself (anyone else have an opinion on this?)!

To be honest, I've already got the music side of things sussed with my multi-room Sonos (superb piece of kit BTW:)), I already have a small Samsung laptop for surfing downstairs and a Vaio desktop in the office upstairs. Also, I don't play games - so maybe all I really need is a PVR or something like the Sony RDR-HXD910 rather than the XL100 to handle my TV recording requirements (as I'm still in the dark ages there with my not so trusty VCR!!).

That said, being a geek, I like the idea of having a fully functioning Media Centre PC looking cool in the lounge!

Tom

I've heard the Sonos stuff is great, so you definitely don't need the XL for that.

I am impressed with the TV functions, and despite having Sky+, I try to do it whatever I can through MCE. But then, this would work on any MCE PC, not just the XL- and bear in mind, the XL can only record one channel at a time, and altho is a hybrid, can't handle both analogue AND digital functions, so it's either or I'm afraid. But still, a decent MCE set-up would pee all over any 'dedicated' HDD/DVD recorder, just not necessarily the XL.

But the case, hmmm- it is one of the best 'front room' cases I've seen :D
 
Craig_E said:
a decent MCE set-up would pee all over any 'dedicated' HDD/DVD recorder, just not necessarily the XL.
:D

really? I had, perhaps naively, imagined a quality dedicated player/recorder (such as the HXD910) would have been better than any MCE setup
 
Craig_E said:
I've heard the Sonos stuff is great, so you definitely don't need the XL for that.

I am impressed with the TV functions, and despite having Sky+, I try to do it whatever I can through MCE. But then, this would work on any MCE PC, not just the XL- and bear in mind, the XL can only record one channel at a time, and altho is a hybrid, can't handle both analogue AND digital functions, so it's either or I'm afraid. But still, a decent MCE set-up would pee all over any 'dedicated' HDD/DVD recorder, just not necessarily the XL.

But the case, hmmm- it is one of the best 'front room' cases I've seen :D

Have you tried adding an additonal tunner to the XL as previously questioned? USB versions are cheap to buy but has anyone tried them with the XL?
 
No, otherwise I would have posted ;)
I have Sky+ already, so no need for dual tuners tbh. I'm guessing it wouldn't work, and there is no current pass-thru of the RF signal, so it would be a pain wiring into a single input USB device.
 
I just got the xl100 and im not too technical, i cant seem to get a tv signal in mce, can anybody tell me how i can get the tv signal, i have a ntl pace box too.

cheers.
 
tompat said:
really? I had, perhaps naively, imagined a quality dedicated player/recorder (such as the HXD910) would have been better than any MCE setup

I agree, not a fan of MCEs recording PC-TV functions.

Sky+ / DVD Harddrive or both combined imo offer a much simpler reliable and better option.

Particulary good about the current Sony range is the minidisc style editing to a single video frame. Ahh such bliss to cut out any ads etc.

Finalising a disc may take a while to burn but this can of course then be ripped to a PC if required for your HTPC database. You've always then got a standard DVD disc backup for safe keeping thats suitable to play in any DVD player.

I just feel editing out ads etc and recording on a PC would always give more hassle and certainly not any better results as most standalone DVDr machines offer 1:1 quality.
 
bad robot said:
I agree, not a fan of MCEs recording PC-TV functions.

Sky+ / DVD Harddrive or both combined imo offer a much simpler reliable and better option.

Particulary good about the current Sony range is the minidisc style editing to a single video frame. Ahh such bliss to cut out any ads etc.

Finalising a disc may take a while to burn but this can of course then be ripped to a PC if required for your HTPC database. You've always then got a standard DVD disc backup for safe keeping thats suitable to play in any DVD player.

I just feel editing out ads etc and recording on a PC would always give more hassle and certainly not any better results as most standalone DVDr machines offer 1:1 quality.
The reasons I bought an MCE PC (not the XL100) rather than a 'under TV box' like the Sony RDR-HXD910 were:
1) the cost (my PC is cheaper than the Sony 910)
2) flexibility
3) upgrades

If you don't like the editing functions on your MCE PC you can just add some more software. I am using dCut to do my DVD editing in MCE and I think it's brilliant! If I need something more sophisticated I can just install Roxio Easy Media Creator.

The same goes for hardware; if you want an extra tuner or a bigger disk you just install one. You're stuck with the original spec if you buy a dedicated device.
 
Craig_E said:
No, otherwise I would have posted ;)
I have Sky+ already, so no need for dual tuners tbh. I'm guessing it wouldn't work, and there is no current pass-thru of the RF signal, so it would be a pain wiring into a single input USB device.


I was told rightly or wrongly there is a ref loop on the back of the XL it is labeled as the FM input but it is infact a RF loop. They demonstrated this in the shop.

Is this rubbish? :thumbsdow :smashin:
 
What do you XL100 owners think of the keyboard with integrated mouse-pad? It has got to be better than the Microsoft effort! Does anyone know if you can buy the Sony keyboard separately?
 
Matthew051076 said:
I was told rightly or wrongly there is a ref loop on the back of the XL it is labeled as the FM input but it is infact a RF loop. They demonstrated this in the shop.

Is this rubbish? :thumbsdow :smashin:

I'm not sure, the analogue inputs (inc. radio) don't work when you select freeview, so I've never bothered using the FM input socket. But I assumed that the RF and FM were both inputs, if this is not the case, then Sony labelling them as such is just plain stupid.

I've properly installed the XL100 into my mess of an entertainment system now, and can't be arsed to battle the thousand wires it would take to try this theory out I'm afraid!
 
Stiggy said:
What do you XL100 owners think of the keyboard with integrated mouse-pad? It has got to be better than the Microsoft effort! Does anyone know if you can buy the Sony keyboard separately?

It is very good, altho I wish they made it a little smaller- and I'm not sure where to find a home for it. I want it close by the sofam but it's too big and delicate to chuck around like a remote.

It confuses me when I use my laptop now, cos it's the same style mouse pad, but in a different position :)
 
bad robot said:
I agree, not a fan of MCEs recording PC-TV functions.

Sky+ / DVD Harddrive or both combined imo offer a much simpler reliable and better option.

Eh? What is more simple than highlighting a program in the EPG and presing record? Press it twice and it records the whole series- it certainly beats Sky+ for ease.

As for reliability, even in stand by, or when the MCE interface has been closed, programmes will still record. And no matter what I've been taxing the PC with (dvd burning, playing games), recordings are not affected in the slightest.

Advert editing... who seriously has time for all that? I have my skip forward button set to 30 seconds, and ad breaks are ALWAYS in multiples of 30 seconds. Usuallly 4 or 5 quick clicks, and the program starts again.

What MCE has that other set-top boxes dont have is the power of a PC with a graphics card behind it. This makes a MCE PC run smoothly, with nice fade and zoom transition effects.

I've not had a MCE PC before this, but have had Sky+ numerous years, as well as other HDD and DVD recording solutions, and bar TiVo, a decent MCE set up can't be beat!
 
I've just taken delivery of my XL100, but I am struggling to get a decent picture on my Pioneer PDP-505XDE plasmas screen. I note from the discussions here that other people have had similar problems...is there a definitive solution yet?

The Pioneer has a native resolution of 1280 x 768 pixels, so naturally that's the resolution I want to run in so that the screen isn't doing any scaling and I can achieve pin-sharp small text.

By default the auto-detect set the graphics card to 1176 x 664 pixels with the HDTV mode enabled. Whilst this is a sharp picture it leaves a black border all round the edge of unused screen (not great for screenburn) and I'm obviously not making the most of the available resolution.

The next resolution up that is offered is 1280 x 720...however this image is too big for the screen so I lose half the taskbar etc. (presumably for some reason the Pioneer is scaling this image).

If I turn off HDTV mode I am offered the 1280 x 768 mode. However this results in an image that is only using about 50% of the total area in the middle of the screen.

I've played around with Powerstrip, but can't seem to get any better solution.

I get a much better image with a 4 year old laptop running in 1280 x 768 mode through the VGA input.

Your suggestions/assistance would be much appreciated as at the moment I'm extremely disappointed in the picture quality.

Tennant
 
Craig_E said:
I've had no problems with the TV tuner whatsoever, in fact, the quality and speed of the PVR functions are one of the most impressive things- If only I could get the sky channels thru this thing, it would be my main source (Yes, i know there are some long-winded hacks to get Sky working, but sounds like a lot of effort!)

I used Sky through MCE for a while and I didn't need any hacks.

The only problem is you need a TV card that has either s-video in (and a Sky box with s-video out, pretty rare unless you've got Sky+) or composite in, and the IR blasters that come with MCEs remote (not sure if Sony ship these). If not you can buy the MCE remote kit from eBuyer in the UK, and it will come with the blasters.

From there plug Sky into the TV card, install the blasters and make sure one of the IR eyes can see the Sky box.

Now reconfigure MCE saying you're using an external satellite receiver, and follow the usual steps. This will allow you to then control the Sky box using MCE. Pretty nifty really :)

However, there are some downfalls to this:

1. You'll be using s-video or composite on a nice HD tv :(
2. You will only be able to use Sky, you can't use both the tuner and the Sky input
3. You will have the normal buffering delay, plus another couple of seconds while MCE sends the IR signals, such as 1....0....1 to get to BBC1, so when you want to change a channel, you'll have to wait about 4 seconds, which to me, sucked, so I binned the lot.
 
@tennant

Well, it sounds like you haven't played around with the overscan utility that will fit the windows screen to your plasma, but yes, it will be processed and converted to 720p or 1080i (I read a review that it could do 1080p, but I haven't seen it)

The XL100 is really and idiot-proof HD box, with the HDMI connection and safe HD modes. It looks pretty poor in windows, but looks good in media center. If you want something to use windows, then the Xl100 isn't for you.
 
chuckalicious said:
I used Sky through MCE for a while and I didn't need any hacks.

I was talking direct Sky, with a satellite card and dragon cam, etc etc.
 
Craig_E said:
Well, it sounds like you haven't played around with the overscan utility that will fit the windows screen to your plasma, but yes, it will be processed and converted to 720p or 1080i (I read a review that it could do 1080p, but I haven't seen it).
Yes I've played with the overscan and underscan, but still can't get a sharp picture.

Craig_E said:
The XL100 is really and idiot-proof HD box, with the HDMI connection and safe HD modes. It looks pretty poor in windows, but looks good in media center. If you want something to use windows, then the Xl100 isn't for you.
But the XL100 is being promoted as an ideal Windows machine for use on a large plasma/LCD panel?!...if that isn't the case then it is being missold.

Surely it must be possible to achieve a 1:1 pixel match...ut defies all logic for that not to be achievable (I appreciate the reasons for overscan to be available as an option, but it should be possible to correctly disable it!)

On a separate issue, since applying the latest Windows Update MCE rollup I can no longer record TV it just pops up a message saying a vital component is missing and suggests I reboot. I expect this sort of thing in the PC world, but if Sony are expecting this product to appeal to non-PC wise consumers this sort of thing can't be allowed to happen.

Tennant
 
It's for media, ie. photos, videos, music, at which is good at. Just not really tiny windows text. It's a non-issue for non-techies, who will only ever see the MCE interface, but yes, it's not good for you. Hey this is Sony, what do expect ;)

As for 1:1 pixel matching, as far as I understand, whatever res you choose, it is converted into 720p or 1080i, I presume for compatability with the component out, which is active even if you are using the HDMI out. I've posted this a couple of times now ;)

To get the 1:1, I can only assume you need different drivers, and maybe disable the component output completely.
 
Well said Craig. Correct me if I'm wrong, but every single product that plugs into a TV has overscan. The only difference is until you run Windows, you'd never have known. I argued on this time and time again when I first ran MCE 2005 until someone gave me a good explanation that TVs always overscan, and all tv broadcasts, and DVD outputs etc are designed to compensate for this. Windows desktop isn't, which is why you notice it. THis is nothing unique about the Sony.

The MCE update thing breaking the software is also nothing to do with Sony, this is Microsoft and thier OS. Many updates in the past have broken certain parts of MCE. I had 2 updates on a non-Sony MCE machine which involved complete rebuilds to get it working again.

Lastly, it's not being marketed as a PC that you can watch TV on, and do normal PC stuff, it's being marketed as a media device that allows you to enjoy all your media once stored on your PC, on your TV, which is what it does. The majority of it's short comings are still to do with the MCE restrictions, however that doesn't excuse Sony for releasing a non-perfect product.

Accept the machine for what it is, it's a very good example of what a PC can do under your TV, but the hardware, nor the software, are perfect yet.
 
I now have to take back a little of what I said. Have played around a little more with the latest drivers and the Overscan Compensation (which had no effect on the default drivers). I now have a Windows image that fits the screen perfectly (albeit not as crisp text as I would like) and a more sensible overscan on DVD (ie virtually none), although still a soft/lacking in detail picture.

Now I just need to get digital audio out of the sound card!??

Tennant
 
Do you fancy outlining how you did this for the more ... "challenged" of us!?
 
tennant said:
Now I just need to get digital audio out of the sound card!??

I think sadly the best way to get round that is to buy a new sound card, unless you can enable pass-through on the current one. I used a simply Sound Blaster card with a spdif out (cost about £25) and it worked fine. Couldn't do anything fancy but all I wanted was a digital out to let my amp do the rest.
 
I have a SoundBlaster Live 5.1 lying around somewhere; but presumably I need a card that is MCE2005 approved?

I noticed you've added extra drives to your XL100...was that a relatively painless process? My ideal would be to put in two 400GB drives as a RAID 1 mirrored array and then use this for all my media, recordings etc...leaving the original drive just for OS/programs...any reasons why that wouldn't work?

I'm considering the Western Digital Caviar RE2 WD4000YR drives which are fractionally louder than the Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD4000KD but more robust...would you consider this a good choice? I'm sure some manufacturers do hard drives specifically designed for PVR-type use, but can't seem to find them now.

Tennant
 

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