SONY SXRD Horizontal Panning - Judder

audimushroom

Active Member
Hello

I've had my set for a week now and although still picture performance is pretty awesome I have some panning judder.

Is this to be expected on a SXRD which is after all a LCD development, I thought the 2.5ms refresh would mean no horizontal panning judder?

I have tried normal DVD and HD-DVD and Sky HD and its there all the time sometimes much worse than others?

I've seen when 3:2 lock fails on another set and that is very bad, this Sony is not that bad.

I have tried changing the settings which although improves the picture quality significantly has no effect on the judder.

Or is there a fault with my set?
 

Gary_W

Active Member
I have the same set and same 1920 DVD player as you. Oh, and SkyHD as of yesterday :thumbsup:

I haven't noticed this problem, but it is entirely likely that it's me not being fussy. I am quite easily pleased, and so far I'm delighted with the setup.

Can you give me a DVD scene to look at and tell me what you see? I'll do the same and let you know the results. I've got a reasonable range of films, though by no means a library but I'll help if I can.

Gary
 

audimushroom

Active Member
I have the same set and same 1920 DVD player as you. Oh, and SkyHD as of yesterday :thumbsup:

I haven't noticed this problem, but it is entirely likely that it's me not being fussy. I am quite easily pleased, and so far I'm delighted with the setup.

Can you give me a DVD scene to look at and tell me what you see? I'll do the same and let you know the results. I've got a reasonable range of films, though by no means a library but I'll help if I can.

Gary
OK, the Mummy opening scene where there is a pan across the Egyptian structures, the edges of each building repeat and is not smooth, may also be described as blurring but then other users don't mention it..
 

Razor

Member
I had judder issues with my RD65. It basically wouldn't handle 60Hz without judder.

The only way around it was to run everything which is 60Hz through my HTPC and run powerstrip @ a frequncy of 49.83Hz. This cured the problem.

Powerstrip has a free trial if you want to give it a go.


http://www.entechtaiwan.net/util/ps.shtm
 

audimushroom

Active Member
I had judder issues with my RD65. It basically wouldn't handle 60Hz without judder.

The only way around it was to run everything which is 60Hz through my HTPC and run powerstrip @ a frequncy of 49.83Hz. This cured the problem.

Powerstrip has a free trial if you want to give it a go.


http://www.entechtaiwan.net/util/ps.shtm
Hi Interesting concept, I thought sky HD was 50hz ?

Also how would I route HDMI from skyhd through a PC? I also have 2 other sources, HDDVD which is also HDMI and a Denon 1920.?

I've heard that HTPC are good at scaling etc, I did have a HTPC but it got replaced with a media player...

Is there a guide anywhere on this topic? FAQ?
 

Tarbat

Well-known Member
Is this to be expected on a SXRD which is after all a LCD development
No, I wouldn't expect this on SXRD.

I thought the 2.5ms refresh would mean no horizontal panning judder?
I'm not sure how the refresh rate would have any real impact on panning judder. At 50hz, refresh rate only needs to be 20ms to keep up.

I have tried normal DVD and HD-DVD and Sky HD and its there all the time sometimes much worse than others?
Is it more noticable on video sources of film sources? If film sources, then that may be more expected, since they're effectively running at 25hz. Are you running SkyHD on AUTO (i.e. 576p for SD, 1080i for HD)?

I've seen when 3:2 lock fails on another set and that is very bad, this Sony is not that bad.
No, it's 1080i deinterlacing is very good.

I have tried changing the settings which although improves the picture quality significantly has no effect on the judder.
Have you played around with the DRC palette settings?

Or is there a fault with my set?
Maybe? It would help to know what your previous TV was, to know what you're comparing the SXRD with. It could just be that you notice 25fps panning judder more than others.
 

audimushroom

Active Member
No, I wouldn't expect this on SXRD.

I'm not sure how the refresh rate would have any real impact on panning judder. At 50hz, refresh rate only needs to be 20ms to keep up.

Is it more noticable on video sources of film sources? If film sources, then that may be more expected, since they're effectively running at 25hz. Are you running SkyHD on AUTO (i.e. 576p for SD, 1080i for HD)?

No, it's 1080i deinterlacing is very good.

Have you played around with the DRC palette settings?

Maybe? It would help to know what your previous TV was, to know what you're comparing the SXRD with. It could just be that you notice 25fps panning judder more than others.
Thansk for the reply

Answers

I notice it more on Film than Video sources, although is'nt the Toshiba HD A1 1080i at 60hz ? and that also seems to judder if a bit more sharply.

My Sky HD is set to 1080i

Yes I've even tried with DRC turned off with HD sources, why would the DRC affect panning judder? I thought this feature was to make SD sources look better?

My Previous TV was the 50" 3LCD Sony the A12 model
 

Tarbat

Well-known Member
I notice it more on Film than Video sources, although is'nt the Toshiba HD A1 1080i at 60hz ? and that also seems to judder if a bit more sharply.
Any FRC (50hz to 60hz or vis versa) is likely to cause juddering. That may be the cause of the juddering you're seeing.

My Sky HD is set to 1080i.
Better to use AUTO. With it set to 1080i, the SkyHD is doing the scaling, whereas the scaler in the SXRD does a better job. The TV will also then do aspect ratio switching.

Yes I've even tried with DRC turned off with HD sources, why would the DRC affect panning judder? I thought this feature was to make SD sources look better?
Also applies to HD sources, and can help in providing bluring between frames - the clarity setting on the horizontal axis. Try setting clarity to zero. Turning DRC off is equivalent to clarity = 100.
 

Gary_W

Active Member
OK, the Mummy opening scene where there is a pan across the Egyptian structures, the edges of each building repeat and is not smooth, may also be described as blurring but then other users don't mention it..
Hi,

I just tried this, and it looks really smooth to me. I watched it 3 times. I also changed between the Denon squirting out 1080i and letting it just put out standard.

Gary
 

Gary_W

Active Member
Any FRC (50hz to 60hz or vis versa) is likely to cause juddering. That may be the cause of the juddering you're seeing.

Better to use AUTO. With it set to 1080i, the SkyHD is doing the scaling, whereas the scaler in the SXRD does a better job. The TV will also then do aspect ratio switching.

Also applies to HD sources, and can help in providing bluring between frames - the clarity setting on the horizontal axis. Try setting clarity to zero. Turning DRC off is equivalent to clarity = 100.
Sorry to hijack here, but could you explain in a little more detail what the DRC setting is doing in terms of both axis? They are labled 'reality' and 'clarity'. To the untrained mind (mine) I can't see why you would want less realism or clarity, so I am clearly missing this particular point.

I love this TV, but it is very easy to get lost in the world of the tweak... I started watching 'Serenity' (only in SD on the Denon) tonight and I must say it made me grin. With the amp cranked up and the SVS doing its stuff it really did put the local cinema to shame as far as I'm concerned.

Gary
 

Tarbat

Well-known Member
Sorry to hijack here, but could you explain in a little more detail what the DRC setting is doing in terms of both axis? They are labled 'reality' and 'clarity'. To the untrained mind (mine) I can't see why you would want less realism or clarity, so I am clearly missing this particular point.
From the manual page 27 - reality = detail, clarity = smoothness. From testing I did with a 1080i PC feed, setting low clarity seems to apply temporal blending between frames. So, with clarity set low, you get smoother movement, setting clarity high gives crisper movement.
 

Gary_W

Active Member
From the manual page 27 - reality = detail, clarity = smoothness. From testing I did with a 1080i PC feed, setting low clarity seems to apply temporal blending between frames. So, with clarity set low, you get smoother movement, setting clarity high gives crisper movement.
Thanks for this; it makes sense to think of it in temporal terms.

As to the detail, why would you want less? Is it purely that, if you have a poor feed, you want to mask detail to cheer up the picture?

Gary
 

Tarbat

Well-known Member
As to the detail, why would you want less? Is it purely that, if you have a poor feed, you want to mask detail to cheer up the picture?
On an SD feed, to reduce the detail enhancements. On an HD feed, I can't think why you'd want less than 100% detail.
 

slave1

Active Member
this is the issue I was trying to describe in my posts on other thread, would welcome any advice, have reported it to Sony and awaiting recommendations
 

Razor

Member
Hi Interesting concept, I thought sky HD was 50hz ?

Also how would I route HDMI from skyhd through a PC? I also have 2 other sources, HDDVD which is also HDMI and a Denon 1920.?

I've heard that HTPC are good at scaling etc, I did have a HTPC but it got replaced with a media player...

Is there a guide anywhere on this topic? FAQ?

A pc is a fantastic tool for media playback. I use fddshow for my scaling and it does a excellent job of scaling SD material upto 720p. Far better than any built in scaler you get in most AV equipment.

You can input digital sources into a pc but I dont know how as I have no use for it. Maybe someone can help you here with this question:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=46


There is loads of info on HTPCs, I cant point you to one site but google is your friend.

The basics for a HTPC are:

Decent graphics card (HDCP if possible)
Sound card and coax lead with minjack for DD and DTS
Theater Tek
Fddshow
The right codecs (I use K-Lite Standard and some elecard codecs)
PowerDVD for H.264 files and HD DVD/BlueRay
Anydvd for region free dvd/HD DVD play


I have a registry hack for fddshow if you want it, it basically sets it up for SD scaling via a line doubler and a few other nice little tricks.
 

slave1

Active Member
Sony Centre guys had a look at the TV today and are going back to Sony technical guys for advice, in the meantime replacement tv ordered for me
Advice here is to contact your provider....
 

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