Sony STR-DB930 and Sky - frustrating audio synch problem

zaarin_2003

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Hi,

I hope someone will be able to help with my issue with audio lip syncing with my home surround system please? I know its a long standing problem inherent with surround systems, but I hope there is something I can do about it. Its driving me insane!

I have a Sky HD box, very recently installed, which connects to my Samsung Series 7 Smart LED TV via an HDMI cable. The audio sounds fine if I listen to it via the TV speakers; there are no lip synch issues.

I'd like to listen to the audio via the Sony STR-DB930 receiver which has surround sound speakers. The Sony receiver is connected to the Sky Box via analogue audio cables. If I do this however, there is a noticeable delay with the sound first and the video second. I think somewhere around 300ms at a guess.

Similarly with the Blu Ray player. This is also connected to the TV via HDMI and to the receiver via red and white analogue audio cables. There is also a delay.

The Sky box has an option to delay digital audio (it specifically says digital audio rather than simply audio) by up to 200ms, but I have thus far been unable to tell whether or not it makes a difference even when set to 200. Either way, the audio delay is still present - sometimes I think it is improved, sometimes I'm not sure. It could be that the delay is greater than 200ms or that the analogue audio isn't being delayed by the 'digital' audio delay set on the Sky box.

I've been thinking of solutions.

One would be something like the Felston DD540, a device I assume goes between the source and the Receiver and adds a delay. However, that would be an expensive option.

I've also read that optical digital audio cables might have a delay inherent in the way they transmit data. Perhaps simply switching from analogue audio cables between the Sky box and the receiver to digital would add a bit of a delay to the audio and help with the lip synch problem? Even if not, digital optical cables are better than analogue right? True 5.1 and all that.

Lastly, I wonder if it would be possible to run one optical (or analogue I suppose) audio cable from the TV to the receiver instead of from the Sky and Blu Ray box. So, rather than having audio cables connecting each to the receiver, why not keep the HDMI cables to the TV and then just have one audio cable to the receiver from the TV? Something tells me that wouldn't work, although I don't know why. There is an option on the TV to use external speakers. Would this be possible and, if so, would that help eliminate the lip synch problem?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Matt
 
The delay is caused by your TV and not your AV receiver. The TV uses digital processing on the video and this takes longer for the TV to process than your amp takes to deal with the audio signal. When conveying both audio and video to the TV via a single connection and letting the TV deal with both then the TV adjust the syncronisation accordingly. Samsung TVs are particularly bad in association with audio synchronisation issues due to their profuse over use of video processing.

Is the SKY box an HD box? If so then consider upgrading your amp to one that includes HDMI inputs. You could then use an HDMI output to the AV receiver carrying both audio and video. The receiver would deal with the audio while passing through the video to your TV. This in itself may not resolve the synchronisation issues, but it will mean that the inbuilt ability of HDMI to maintain synchronisation is utilised. Also try turning off any additional video processing being carried out by your TV.

Not sure why you are using anologue audio connections to begin with? You can either make a direct digital audio connection from the SKY box to your receiver or use the optical output from your TV to the receiver, but this will not necessarily resolve the synchronisation problem. Samsung TV's have a well documented issue relating to their optical audio output being out of sync with their screens. Again, this is due to Samsung's over use of video processing and lack of forethought to include measures to adjust audio sync accordingly.

If you want to best from both your BD player and SKY box then I'd suggest using HDMI to convey both audio and video via an apropriately equiped HDMI capable AV receiver or at least using digital as opposed to analogue audio connections to your existing AV receiver rather than using analogue connections. Analogue stereo connections cannot convey dicrete surround formats such as Dolby Digital or DTS 5.1. OPtical or digital coax audio cannot convey digital HD audio such as DTS-HD Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD found on Blu-ray movie discs. HDMI can convey everything optical can plus the HD formats.

Note that if passing audio through a TV then you may not nesessarily be getting the format being output by the source. The audio coming from the TV may be a lesser format restricted due to the TV's audio capabilities.
 
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Thanks very much for the detailed reply, Dante!

I understand what you're saying about the TV causing the delay. I have now tried to disable all video processing and HD channels now are bearable, so that has definitely helped. SD channels however, are still a bit rubbish unfortunately.

Upgrading the receiver is not an option (I wish it were) unfortunately, but point taken.

I'm also not sure why I am using analogue audio cables... to be honest the set up was done by the engineer and its taken me this long to really have a poke around behind it all to see how it ticks. I'll try upgrading the connections to digital optical and see if that helps.

On that; just to clarify, are you saying that I can do away with the audio cables running from both the Blu Ray and Sky box and just have one going from the TV to the receiver? The draw back I understand being that the audio quality may be limited by the TV's capabilities? I can live with that if it resolves the delay problem, although I understand what you're saying about the TV potentially causing its own delay problems itself so it may not resolve anything.

Do you think the Felston audio delay device (or similar) would help? And would swapping the analogue audio cables for digital optical ones, keeping them going from each device to the receiver) have any affect on the audio sync (I'd read that optical cables have a delay of their own - if so, it might help)?

In the first instance I think I'll get digital cables. Then try just having the one from the TV and then maybe trying the Felston thing if you think that might work.

Thanks again.

Matt
 
Direct audio connections from source to AV receiver are always preferable if and when possible for the reasons I outlined.

Is the delay something you are only experiencing in conjunction with the SKY box? If so then the box has an audio delay setting that can be used to correct or adjust the delay applied to audio.

There's no delay related to optical digital audio. Besides which, the delay you are getting is in relation to the video and not the audio. The audio is arriving before the video so the video is experiencing the delay and not the audio. As I said, it is more likely to be the TV and its video processing at fault as opposed to anything to do with the AV receiver or the audio processing.

Also note that your AV receiver also has an audio delay setting, but if you use this then the delay will be applied to all audio inputs and not just the audio associated with the SKY box.
 
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I'm experiencing the sync problem with Sky and Blu Ray. Both have an option to delay audio, but only up to 200ms which doesn't seem enough.

I understand its the video being delayed by the TV's processing which causes the sound to come first. Therefor anything which can delay the audio would help.

Ok, so using optical cables won't help in that regard, but they sound worth a try if only for quality reasons.

Hopefully a device which can delay the audio like the Felston would help. Have you experience of these?

Also, you said the receiver has a way to delay audio. I can't see it in the manual. Do you know how to do that also?
Thanks again for your help

Matt
 
I'm experiencing the sync problem with Sky and Blu Ray. Both have an option to delay audio, but only up to 200ms which doesn't seem enough.

I understand its the video being delayed by the TV's processing which causes the sound to come first. Therefor anything which can delay the audio would help.

Ok, so using optical cables won't help in that regard, but they sound worth a try if only for quality reasons.

Hopefully a device which can delay the audio like the Felston would help. Have you experience of these?

Also, you said the receiver has a way to delay audio. I can't see it in the manual. Do you know how to do that also?
Thanks again for your help

Matt


I've no experience of using intermediary devices to delay the audio, but have heard of such devices before now. I cannot offer you advice on which would be best for you to use.

The only other option is to look at TVs that do not have a reputation for heavy video processing and poor synchronisation, but this is obviously not an option you'll be wanting to take due to the cost of doing so. Samsung really do have a bad rep in relation to this.

I may be mistaken about your receiver having an audio delay setting. I think this kind of setting is only apparent on AV receivers that utilise HDMI source inputs?
 
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The Sony receiver is connected to the Sky Box via analogue audio cables
rather than having audio cables connecting each to the receiver, why not keep the HDMI cables to the TV and then just have one audio cable to the receiver from the TV?
They should be connected by optical or co-ax digital cable and the same applies to the BR player.
The answer depends on what the TV outputs on its optical - some provide only audio from the internal tuner.
 
Thanks both. I'm going to upgrade the cables to optical and see if that makes a difference. If not, I guess it's the Felston device!
 
Forget about 'upgrading' cables you are just wasting money.

Does your AVR offer any form of Digital Audio Delay - if not your best option (assuming you don't want to replace the TV) would be a new AVR with digital audio delay (pretty hard to find one without that feature) and use either HDMI or Optical/Coaxial between the Sources and the new AVR.

Joe
 
I took the upgrading to be from phono-to-phono cables to optical ones.
 
Won't fix an audio delay unless the AVR offers a delay on the digital input not available on the analogue input.

Joe
 
Agreed.
 
My AVR has no delay option and I can't afford to get a new one. If upgrading from phono cables to optical ones is unlikely to affect the problem Ill get one of these Felston things. I just wish I knew if they did the job!

Thanks
 
Changing from analogue (2xRCA) to Digital (optical) is likely to pass the audio slightly faster through the AVR - not what you want.

I'd go with Dante's suggestion of a budget AVR (with Digital Audio Delay).

Joe
 
Well, I'm pleased I went with the optical cables first. I simply changed the phono cables linking the Blu Ray player and Sky box to the AVR with optical digital cables and the lip synch problem vanished. Perfectly. Putting the TV volume up too to compare it with the AVR volume showed the sound was perfectly in sync. Why might that be?
 

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