Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by gringottsdirect, Jul 3, 2002.
Easy win for Denon or not so straightforward?
Check this thread out:
I'm starting to think Denon build quality and quality control isn't what it was.
Despite the rave reviews the Made In China DM-30 mini systems are not as reliable as their forerunners.
From a performance perspective if choosing between only the Denon and the Sony, as stranger did, has anyone else felt the Sony is more revealing of subtle steering effects.
It's a brave move to buy the Sony when the Denon is the recognised best choice, but buying the Denon is a worry...
I wouldn't worry too much about a few comments about the 3802, Denon have sold shedloads of these things probably more than any other receiver out there. Considering this, the amount of problems reported is surprisingy few.
Don't forget, if it does screw up there is always the warranty!
For what it is worth following the last sony vs denon battle I went and demoed the 3802, 555 and the 9000 pre power with and without the new software. Results were reported off line to a few interested parties.
In order of preference
Sony 9000 pre / power new software
Sony 9000 pre / power old software
There was a big jump between the Denon and the Pre / power. Sony 555 I think is pretty well class leading though I enjoyed the 3802 and it is better priced. I would be happy with either 555 or 3802. Both excellent products.
Dont forget that the Sony beat the Denon 3802 in this month's What HiFi test .. amps from £800-1000.
dont think there is much in it at home cinema, but the sony was supposedly better at music.
theres also a big difference in build quality, bass management (40-200 hz in 10hz increments) front a/v inputs and 5.1 and 7.1 inputs.
pretty sure the Denon 3802 has 7.1 inputs so no difference there... (although the Sony has both 5.1 AND 7.1 inputs which seems a little bit of overkill).
build quality is really hard to prove at this stage... cant remember many 3802s failing or having problems so they at least have "in the field" testing done on them for 9-12 months. the Sony is really unproven in this respect... it may look/ feel more solid but quality.. I'd wait on that one.
surely 5.1 and 7.1 aren't overkill if you have dvda and sacd or wish to use another processor (future proofing). as far as quality goes all the sonys terminals are gold plated, a plus point in my book. as the sony is available @ £700.00 or less it's a no brainer in my book-but you pays your money and you takes your choice, i also rate nics opinions very highly.
It sounds like the Denon and Sony are both very good, Sony edges the quality a little, whilst the Denon is cheaper...
What hi-fi reviewed the 3802 and the 555 this month the Denon got 4/5 with the ONLY against point being 'bit soft for stereo use', and the Sony gets 5/5.
Don't think you can wrong with either really!
If you don't mind my asking, is your preference based on multi-channel performance, 2-channel stereo with music, or both?
Thanks to MartinCo, planbeta and stranger for their replies too.
It based on both. I view someone buying these boxes as someone who wants it to be able to do both without serious compromise. I don't really want it to excel at one and be crap at the other. It is a balance of music and film enjoyment. In this respect they are both pretty good. Often when I do a comparison one product easily wins over another. It was not the case here. Both are great and any purchaser would enjoy the other.
I may be wrong but if you want component output then you have to go the 3802 route as I don't think the 555 has component in or out. I may be wrong though.
sony va555es component 2 in 1 out.
Oops sorry. May take my 3802 back then (bought yesterday) as I did not see that on the Sony web site. Must open my eyes.
the sonys web site specs for the str-va555es are incorrect i've e-mailed them four times but have now given up. weight should read 20kgs. not 17, power consumption is 390 watts not 290 plus a couple of minor points. theyre also wrong in sonys style mags-last and current ones, probabably put some people off auditioning and lost sales.
they are both excellent amps with little in it... all the better for us consumers. think about the amps coming that will try to top these two!
as is, I think Sony has been playing catchup in the home cinema amp for the last 12-18 months.. no really outstanding models with the result that they've been loosing sales to Denon, Marantz, Yamaha etc... even Pioneer have been trying to muscle in a bit at the top recently.
least Sony has woken up now... the ball is back in Denon's court to match and surpass this. I'd reckon a true 3803 in the next 6-7 months is very likely.
me also, plus surely you rate everyone else's opinions also?
I heard a rumour that Stuart Wright is actually Simon Le Bon in disguise.. fallen on hard times and has to buy those cheap RS amps now.
Thanks Nic, that's what I needed to know.
It would be nice to say that everyone's opinions are valid but unfortunately there are a number of people that pass opinions on equipment that they have never heard based on magazine reviews and second hand gossip and it can be hard to pick out information from those that know what they are talking about from the herd.
It is fairly easy to spot from a post whether they intend to demo their prospective purchase or seek recommendations and then buy it at the cheapest place on the net without hearing it.
Frequently the same person is back paying glowing tributes to his kit a couple of weeks later and urging others to buy it without telling anyone that it is the only kit that he has actually heard so has no basis for comparison.
I am not casting aspersions on anyone on this thread but Nic Rhodes did preface his comments with " I demoed......." so we know that he has actually listened to what he has discussed. Maybe others have also but it is not clear from their posts.
totally valid point.
there are a lot of people buying kit based on recommendations where the person themselves haven't seen the kit. also seems to be quite a few people then taking this as gospel and having absolutely no intention of getting a demo before buying.
no-one is perfect - probably done this myself an odd time but I always stick "get a demo" somewhere if so.
I have demoed the 3802 extensively twice.. haven't demoed the va555 to a similar level, but have had a listen for 10-15 minutes at a dealer recently plus a quick examination at the back for socketry.
both are nice amps and very close in spec.
just out of interest though.. Messiah, did you get demos of both the Denon & Sony before you bought the 3802?
you imply not with your comments that you might return and swap.
Ian J you took the words out of my reply
MartinCo, your right about sony, and competition between all makers is good for all of us.
No. have not demoed the Sony but have been very pleased with my DA50 for the last 2 years or so and have to say I just like Sony kit. Had it not been for the Sony site being wrong (showing no component in/out for the 555) I would have gone Sony immediately but as I believed the site I went for the next best (IMHO). Soon as I found out the Sony does have component and that the Denon does not have gold plated connectors I got depressed
I am taking the 3802 back this afternoon and swapoping for a 555 (though will have to wait about 6 weeks for it as apparently there is a stock shortage). Oh well, I can wait.
Did I really recommend a Sony. Must be loosing it, for gods sake don't tell Stranger...
presume you're not that Nic Rhodes either.
Everyone else has alter egos here, thought I needed one as well, just couldn't be bothered to get a new name!
Call them as I see them, if that means praising Sony or giving them a hard time, so be it. Here the Sony is class leading. (Oh, that hurt!).
Please excuse my limited knowledge of all this, but is the Sony 555 the same as RicherSounds are selling (STRV555) for £499??
Think that's the older version, the new one is the STR-AV555ES
Ah ha! That explains why it's so cheap then!
it's str-va555es glad to see you've come to your senses nic-or is it out of the closet
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