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Sony Ruby/VPW-100 confirmed £5979 (or less!)

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Paul D, Oct 29, 2005.

  1. Paul D

    Paul D
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    As the title says :eek:

    I just popped into the Manchester show, and headed over to the Sony room.

    You can order one today (at the show) for £5979.
    They had a VPW-100 there, but it wasn't setup etc.

    So it's looks like the other threads sub £5000 price tag might not be that far off!(Click here for £4700inc)

    Anyway, here's some pictures of the Ruby to give some idea of size etc.
    (i'm the fat one stood next to it! :D )
     

    Attached Files:

  2. inzaman

    inzaman
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    Its massive, the projector that is :D

    It looks stunning and excellent news on the pricing.
     
  3. inzaman

    inzaman
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    Also interesting to note that it has dvi as well as hdmi.
     
  4. Paul D

    Paul D
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    I was surprised at the size myself.(hence the need for the photots!)

    Here's a picture next to the H50/60(?)
     

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  5. Paul D

    Paul D
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    It seems to have every input going!

    Composite
    SVideo
    Component
    RGB-HV (15 pin)
    HDMI
    DVI-D

    I wonder what the ethernet connection is for?
    (easy updates?)

    Not keen on the side entry for the cables though... (other side looks cleaner):rolleyes:
     

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  6. inzaman

    inzaman
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    I suppose with the size of it at least it can go right back against the wall with no cables at the rear depending on set up and the throw ratio of the Ruby.
     
  7. Boris Blank

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    An excellent find! Well done Paul, puts all the price speculation to bed once and for all!
    Paul
     
  8. gandley

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    Wow, sony are being very agressive with there pricing. This can only be good news. the DLP crew will have to shape up now thats for sure.

    Paul did you get to see an image from the unit? or was your belly blocking the lense? :rotfl: Sorry could not resist that. i apologise...HeHe.

    I quite like the look of it except for ugly side inputs, but i have a feeling it will be Dim from what others have said.
     
  9. Paul D

    Paul D
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    It wasn't setup.
    They were showing the Qualia 004 though.

    I do wonder how anybody else expects to sell any projector(for normal screen sizes) for more than £6000.
    Sim2 didn't even bother showing up :confused:
    I was hoping to see the new C3X.(it was the main reason for going :suicide: )
    Thanks Sim... :mad:
     
  10. gandley

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    Well you have to feel a little sorry for Sim2. They have invested a fair amount into the C3x, but i doubt they saw sonys move coming. Maybe for the average buyer who on earth would pay sim2 £13000 upwards for the C3x, when they can have a 1080p display for sub £5000 with quite a good spec sheet.
    Sim2 needs to come Sub 10k and then some to attract people in a half decent quantity. I dont doubt the quality of the C3x even bar some of the first few complaints ive seen but +10k for 720p even for a 3-chipper is still too high. well unless you dont mind shipping a small high priced number, which maybe is the plan.

    I would like to see the Ruby fitted out with a quality scaler(and still be cheaper than some 1-chip DLP) and see how it performs then. I just worry about the dynamic iris. I didnt like what i saw with the HS50.
     
  11. Gary Lightfoot

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    Don't dismiss DLP so quickly - the C3X produced a very sharp and detailed image with excellent contrast and the best motion clarity I've seen from any display yet.

    The Ruby's dynamic iris does cause some compression in brighter scenes that contain dark material - the iris will shut down somewhat and the pj will boost the gamma (I beilieve) to bring out the shadow detail, but in doing that the whites get compressed and bright detail is lost. Sony may adjust the iris' algorithm before it's released but we won't know for a while yet.

    A side by side comparison will be the best way to tell how these two will compare.

    Gary.
     
  12. rigman

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    Nice one Paul,

    thanks for the confirmation and the pictures

    At this price I could get a Crystallio 2 as well :clap:

    Gandley your summary is exactly what I was thinking. Maybe TI will be forced to stop drip feeding the industry and now have to release 1080p chips at a price where the DLP projector companies can compete.


    p.s. anyone want to buy a Barco 808s and a Taw rock pro processor :)
     
  13. rigman

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    Yes but at over twice the price. If the C3X dropped a few grand then maybe it would be worth considering.
     
  14. Paul D

    Paul D
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    Gary agreed.
    Resolution isn't everything and the dynamic iris may introduce its own artifacts.
    Infact i wouldn't be surprised to find the C3X outperforms the Ruby in a side by side comparison.

    The point i was making was the rather large price difference already.
    £5000(or less) for the Ruby, or £10,000(or less) for the C3X (inc lite etc).
    The C3X would have to be very much better for people to pay an extra £5000!

    It's up to Sim, but i feel lowering the price of the C3X nearer the £5/6,000 mark would give it a fighting chance.

    Maybe a 1080 3 chip (C3XXX!) at £10,000 would steal Sonys thunder... ;)

    EDIT:rigman..i was just writing the same thing!
     
  15. Jules

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    Saw the Qualia 004 at the show today, and to be honest I wasn't bowled over by the contrast... oh, and it's absolutely enormous. I mean HUGE!

    I suspect the Ruby maybe £5k because that's all its worth! Sony were very arrogant today at the show, and I could see through their hype machine.
    (e.g. they said it was one of the quitest projectors in the world at 26db.... rubbish, lots of other projectors achieve 24, 23 or even 21db )

    Its a very nice projector don't get me wrong, but I'd bet a huge pile of cash that the SIM2 C3X will kick its backside in a side by side comparison.

    I own an HS50 and what I saw today was good, but didn't make me go wow...I need to upgrade now!

    I think alot of people are getting a bit carried away.
     
  16. Welwynnick

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    APPARENTLY, the Ruby actually incorporates proper 1080i per-pixel motion-adaptive and film-mode inverse-telecine de-interlacing. It's the latest version of DRC-MF2, not an HQV or VSX. If it works as well as hoped, that means less need for an off-board processor, and makes that price look even more attractive. I think we need one of the smart guys to get their hands on one first. This is starting to sound too good to be true. I didn't think that £4700 price was credible to begin with, but if Sony say £5979.....

    Nick :)
     
  17. foghorn

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    I saw the Sim2 C3X at the Scottish Hi FI exibition and i have to say that it produced the best picture i have seen on a projector. However during a demo of Sin City there was something going on in the background it was like a sort of shimmer effect describing it as a black and white rainbow effect might not be completely accurate but it was something like that. I mentioned it to Alan Roser(nice guy) i don't think he was pleased i pointed it out.

    So It would seem that the Sony has flaws and the Sim2 has some as well i guess nobody can claim to have a perfect projector.

    Sim2 C3X might in a head to head have the edge in performance but if the Sony comes close the price difference would be hard to resist. The products that Sim2 in my opinion will now struggle to sell are all the single chip 720 models below the C3X.

    Foghorn
     
  18. Penfold73

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    Yes it's a 720p DLP killer, certainly 1 chip and at that price I think 3 chip doesn't stand a chance either.
     
  19. Paul D

    Paul D
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    Jules
    The 004 has less than half the contrast of the Ruby when the Ruby is in fixed Iris mode, and at least 5 times less when the Ruby is in automatic mode.
    So the Ruby should be much better than the 004 in that respect etc.

    But as mentioned, i wouldn't like to say which one would be best in a side by side comparison. (C3x v Ruby)

    Specs mean nothing in this game, so a head to head needs to be arranged before either sees my money!
     
  20. Paul Hayward

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    Hi Guys,

    I have recently bought a 250 watt C3X and am awaiting its install. As Foghorn mentioned, this three chip DLP does produce an amazingly detailed three D image with stunning brightness, deep blacks and a super transparent image. As such, it is also very revealing of source problems. Even though it has 720p resolution, I feel it is taylor made for high def. I am speculating wildly here, but I have grave reservations about whether the Ruby can compete favourably with such an alive, bright and transparent C3X picture. Jules makes an important observation about the Qualia. Apparently it does have some short comings which contradict the some of the hype surrounding it. With regard to the performance of the Ruby and the C3X, the only definitive test is to AB these two fine projectors with the same components on the same screen with same source material. I do agree that the pricing of the Ruby is extremely competitive and we will have to wait and see what effect this has on the rest of the market. For those contemplating the Ruby, the 'guru's' on AVS suggest pairing it with a High Power screen in order to boost the lumens to deliver some extra punch to the image. Should be a very interesting match. Exciting times for all of us. Thanks again to Paul for the pictures and refreshing discussion.

    Regards,

    Paul H
     
  21. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Some good points, especially Foghorns comments about them all having pros and cons which is certainly an important factor when buying into a given projection technolgy. I wonder how many 8" or 9" CRT owners will jump ship and go for the Ruby or for the Sim2? That will be an interesting statistic IMHO, and of course 1080 DLP will throw another spanner in the works when that arrives next year.

    Hi Paul,

    I would think your combination of C3X and Firehawk will be an impressive combination. When's the big day?

    Gary.
     
  22. mikeaitch

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    Good point Paul, but with most projectors having strengths and weaknesses perhaps a better test is for a clued up tester to get the best combination of components for each independantly to get them both working their best, then comparing the images side by side. If any of the optimised components are replicated on the two setups, that would provide a pretty safe buy for anyone looking at scalers, screens or sources like dvd as one would know that whichever pj was bought, it would be a good match.

    For most of us, cost is the major factor. For me, the extra £5k would buy some pretty fine partnering equipment to do the pj justice. But definitely brightness for instance, could be a killer factor if screen sizes are similar to the average US high end installs, rather than UK screen sizes
     
  23. dippy9876

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    i was going to buy a benq 8720 but a ruby it is
     
  24. Penfold73

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    A ruby with a Da-lite high power would solve most of the brightness issues I think, and the Da-lite is not the most expensive screen around.

    If I didn't have to worry about cash I'd be happy with a C3X or a ruby, but it really is quite a price difference.
     
  25. X3ELS

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    You guys should all make time to see Qualia 004 at PJ Hi-Fi at our proper launch.

    I guarantee you it will look nothing like you have seen when sony set it up!
     
  26. Paul Hayward

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    Hi Gary,

    I have high hopes that the C3X and the Firehawk will work very well together. I tested this at RTFM's with his split Studiotek 1,3 gain and the Firehawk and there was surprisingly little difference in brightness with the Firehawk having the edge in blacks. I also know that Alan Roser coaksed a great image out of the C3X at Cedia on a 96" Firehawk.

    Hi X3ELS,

    I think you will find that myself, RTFM(Jeff) and Gary will be winging our way up to Guildford when you have the launch. Do keep us informed.

    Regards,

    Paul H
     
  27. UrbanT

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    The very fact that we are all comparing a £6k projector to a £10k+ one should say everything. I don't expect perfection, as to expect perfection ultimately leads to disappointment.

    I just want the next step up in the projector food chain, for sensible money. And I think the Ruby is currently it :)
     
  28. gandley

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    I don't think anyone is dismissing DLP, i happen to be A DLP fan and a former Sim2 owner so i am very much aware of Sim2`s strenghts and weaknesses.
    (and the fact that i really want a 1080p dlp asap)
    A side point is that sim2 is very much overpriced if you take the quality of certain parts of the image into consideration (and i am not referring Directly to the C3x), there are problems that you just don't see on much cheaper models and there direct rivals.

    Also urban has made the exact point as it is more a pricing issue. is the C3x giving you a £7000 ish better picture, you can decide that one.
    That said i don't think i would buy a ruby(unless its outstanding), i would like a C3x or i would prefer a similar type of projector from one of sim2s rivals but i am not go to pay the silly price (even though i can happily do so). Someone said resolution is not that important and that is quite right, but if sim2 dropped in 1080p chips and reduced the price of the 720p model, how many would more than likely hold out for the 1080p version? Most i would think as its where the market is heading and would in effect cut 1 upgrade cycle for us, which would be a saving.

    Fog was right to mention the fact that rainbows still exist in a 3-chipper. anyone who is sensitive will still needs to make sure they do not suffer, as far as i can tell rainbows do not just come from the colour wheel but are also generated by the full on-off nature of the pixels that create a kind of strobing effect.(so you kinda see a rainbow without the colour, from the way DLP creates the greyscale) its weird to believe at first till you notice how many actually have seen it+ now add fog to the list
    There was a neat thread on this posted on AVS (some even see rainbows with CRT) which actually had a quote from an unnamed source who implements the chips for a certain vendor and he confirmed that 3-chippers do not fully solve the rainbow issue but that it is greatly reduced for all but the most sensitive.
    i am so glad i do not see rainbows.

    Give me a C3x 1080p for <8K and i will be happy. But i would be interested to see what sony do with there next product cycle?

    Just to make it clear i am not knocking the C3x, i think its a thing of beauty and some of the good quality hi def screen shots i have seen have been nothing short of outstanding (in a jaw hit floor kind of way) there is no doubt this is one of the best projectors at this time (if not the best) just as long as Sim2 finally got rid of those nasty contour/banding issues you see on all there other models.

    Ultimately lets see what DLP does with1080p and at what price point.
    I bet the H81 from optoma will hit a quality and price point that is hard to ignore
     
  29. Joe Fernand

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    Hello all

    Lets keep in mind the Ruby says Sony on its badge - my experience with Sony and service is that unless they have improved things by about 1000% they are way off the mark compared with the likes of ThemeScene and SIM2; lets compare like for like when looking at the cost of ownership of various products.

    Does anyone know what service arrangements Sony UK are offering with the Ruby - here's a simple one for Mr Sony UK if anyone is going to the show; what will be the waiting time for a spare Lamp module?

    Folk who purchase a Qualia from X3ELS can rest assured they have a very decent dealer to deal with any problems they should encounter - what happens to the great unwashed who purchase a Ruby off the web is less clear!

    Best regards

    Joe

    PS Who supplies these Show Offers? Do you go get one from your local Sony Centre!
     
  30. mrxfilms

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    Had the pleasure of the Qualia demo at the Manchester show yesterday. I was on the front row, approximately 6 foot from the screen.The screen was a Stewart 1.5 gain 135". Even that close there was absolutely zero pixel structure, or screendoor. The image can only be described as jaw dropping. A thread earlier stated Sony were arrogant, yes they were, and with damn good reason. Onto the Ruby. I was gobsmacked at the price less than £6k...HOWEVER I had a long discussion with the Sony huys who stated the following. 1. The Ruby will be available in December 2. The show price was a show price. It is anticipated to retail at £7k, but this is likely to reduce with competitve retailing. 3. Even the Sony guys had not seen a Ruby running! So how can we have discussions about what is going to be great when nobody's seen it. If it is even remotely close to the Qualia, then it is game over all comers, but hey, lets wait and see. Other comments on the other PJ's on show.

    Themescene H79 Big big screen, but a lot of ambient light in the room. However the image was excellent, and fluid. Zero screendoor, but clear pixellation on subtitles. RBE - None whatsoever.
    Infocus 7210 - Small screen, very nice image, but Rainbows, Rainbows Rainbows. Very Very Disappointing. That's one machine off the shopping list.

    Just in general the HD stuff on show was sensational, mostly through plasma's. The way we watch tele over the coming 2 years has to be seen to be believed. Why do i feel like i've opened a can of worms.....
     

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