Sony RDRHX 1010 Hard Disc/DVD Recorder

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by rogerh, Apr 14, 2005.

  1. rogerh

    rogerh
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    A new model has been announced from Sony (see the Press Section of their web site). It's going to have a 400 Hard Disc!
    No release date yet though.
    They also say that the September and October release dates for the 710 and 910 may change.
    So fingers crossed that we may see the beginning of a race to the market between Sony and Panasonic with the first decently spected machine! :clap:
     
  2. laser

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    What is the point of these super dooper machines with HDMI when the flaming tuner is still analogue.

    Will non of the big electronics company wake to the fact that they should be bundling Freeview tuners in the HDD/DVD recorders. :suicide:
     
  3. rogerh

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    I couldn't agree more. I've been banging on about this on various threads, I've written (and had published) letters to the mags and I've written to the DTI and OFCOM.
    The government response has been "market forces" which means that they have only addressed the transmission issues and not the reception methods!
    The manufacturers have said that they're waiting for the European market to be big enough for digital! This is when the UK has a majority of Digital homes already, France started Digital Terrestial last month, Italy and Germany have it and others like Holland, Spain etc are well forward with plans!

    We are at last seeing some movement though. Sony have said their upcoming
    710 and 910 machines will have Digital Tuners and I'm hoping they will also include Digital Tuner(s) in the 1010.
    Panasonic have said they are to bring a Digital machine out this year and Philips are also bringing one out (although without hard disc).

    As I said, lets hope that at last the manufacturers are beginning to recognise there's a market for a properly specked machine!
     
  4. GadgetObsessed

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    rogerh - surely the upcoming range of DVD recorders with digital tuners proves that the government was right - manufacturers are now responding to demand.

    It has taken a while but I understand that it has taken manufacturers time to develop the technology to convert digital broadcasts into a format appropriate for writing to DVD. It obviously hasn't been as simple as just directly replacing an analogue tuner with a digital one.

    I can also understand the manufacturers point that DVD recorders with a Freeview tuner are aimed at a relatively small market. As you say the majority of homes in the UK are now digital. However, the majority of these digital homes are Sky (7million) not Freeview (5million) users. Therefore, only about one in four homes has Freeview at present. Personally, I know many people with Freeview tuners but very few people (except on these forums) who have any interest in a DVD recorder at all – let alone one with a digital tuner.

    You could argue that in the future with the analogue switch off a DVD recorder with an analogue tuner will be of limited use. However, that is not true to those millions of households with Sky/Freesat/cable. Even if you argue that Freeview will grow significantly I do not see why manufacturers should be forced to produce DVD recorders now to cater for future demand.

    I suppose that in the end I am against legislation that takes away peoples choice (to buy a DVD recorder without a digital tuner) and has dubious benefit and potentially large costs. One expensive option proposed was to make retailers get purchasors of non-digital products sign a disclaimer!
     
  5. foneman

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    I dont think I will be getting a recorder with Digital terrestial built in - thgis is the same hifi argument as 'separates or all-in-one' even more so when technolgy is in this changeable state - what happens when the *next* standard of *giant* DVDs come out?? just chuck away your perfectly good DVB tuner / HD recorder???

    - or just unplug the out-of-date component, and plug in a new one???

    there is also the question about whether the broadcaster will let you get full access, eg when 'pay to view' channels are added, or some (stiil not paid-for)channels are encrypted to stop other countries watching, in the same way that SKY does...
     
  6. Evil Engineer

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    But without digital outputs on freeview boxes and digital inputs on DVD/HDD recorders you can't avoid all the unnecessary A/D and D/A conversions that would be required to get the picture onto the disk.

    At least the all-in-one can keep everything in MPEG-2 and in the digital domain.

    Also, given the bargain bucket nature of Freeview receivers it looks like the all-in-one DVD/HDD recorder is going to be the only way to get high end component or HDMI connections for digital terrestrial.

    God knows that DVB-T pictures need all the help they can get on the PQ front!
     
  7. recorders4u

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    Freeview is UK only, right ?

    /Lars
     
  8. rogerh

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    Lars - Freeview is indeed only UK.
    Other countries have different Digital Terrestial Transmissions e.g. France, Germany etc. with different names. There seems to be a concensus on "TNT" in France for example.

    As to not buying a DVD with Freeview Tuner built-in, I don't see the logic.
    Ok you can always upgrade separate boxes, but you have to bear in mind that any machine will date/wear out and you ought to at least start from the best possible position.
    To buy something with an Analogue Tuner which needs to be suplemented by a Digital Tuner from the start seems a strange kicking off point to me.
    After all you already know that the Analogue tuner is on it's last phases of being useful and there seems little point in using a Digital recording system to record an Analogue signal.
     
  9. musukebba

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    Remember DVB-T broadcasts have at best an encoding quality roughly equivalent to M2 (SP). Many Freeview broadcasts are significantly lower quality, and I can confirm from experience that an M1 DVDR recording of an analogue broadcast can certainly be superior to that of its Freeview equivalent.

    There's at least ten years left of analogue transmission, so it would be premature to say they are "in their last phases of usefulness".
     
  10. foneman

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    Evil Engineer, to get the sort of box you are talking about would be very expensive, if economically possible for the manufacturer... I don't know if this would even be possible, (not techically, but financially!!) to do in the same way that you can get a separate D/A convertor for your CD player...

    and due to the low-quality nature of the broadcasts(enforced by the limited bandwidth available!), RGB output would still be the best...

    there is also the fact that you have to sell to a world market, to make any kind of profit..

    about the only really workable solution is that by www.kaonmedia.com - a dedicated box that has 'plug-in' card functionality, so you can have what 'mix' you like...

    the next problem, of course, is the provision of a card reader, so that future 'pay-per-view' can be done..
     
  11. Rasczak

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    The UK Sony 1010 model is going to have a Freeview tuner. Panasonic are likely to be the first to get a HDD/DVDR/DVB combi to market though with the EH60D though...
     
  12. Evil Engineer

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    You've totally lost me there, foneman.

    What's so expensive about taking a DVD/HDD recorder, slapping a DVB-T tuner inside the box and banging a HDMI output on the back?

    It can't be that bad, by all accounts Sony are planning to do exactly that before the end of the year.

    With this intergrated solution what's to stop you from taking the broadcast signal and using the digital tuner to strip out the raw MPEG2 data which can then be recorded directly onto the hard disc or to a DVD without any unnecessary D-A conversions ?

    This way you only need carry out one D-A conversion right at the end of the chain to feed the analogue outputs to a display or none at all if using the all digital HDMI output to feed a plasma/LCD screen !

    With all analogue separates you've got to decode the DVB-T signal in the freeview box, convert to analogue, transmit down a SCART lead, convert back to digital, record onto HDD or DVD, convert back to analogue AGAIN, transmit down a SCART lead onto a display and finally (if using plasma/LCD) convert back into digital to get it onto the screen.

    A picture that's come from an all digital signal path should look better than one that's been subject to three or four D/A conversions. Even if it's low bit rate freeview !
     
  13. foneman

    foneman
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    sorry, should have quoted.. :)

    "But without digital outputs on freeview boxes and digital inputs on DVD/HDD recorders you can't avoid all the unnecessary A/D and D/A conversions that would be required to get the picture onto the disk."

    AFAIK I don't think DVB-T is as simple as this project was: http://www.mhennessy.f9.co.uk/nicam/
    We may have to wait a few years until the proper parts are available at your local component shop - Then we may be able to get at the 'innards' of DVB - until then it depends whether a manufacturer is daring enough to produce a 'proffesional' model - this would most likely cost up to 10,000 pounds!!

    also I have looked into the D/A and A/D part - MPEG-2 is transmitted from the broadcaster, so basically there is none! - unless you mean converting the RGB to composite video..

    here's a site about MPEG2: http://www.mpeg2.de/doc/index.htm
    or this may be better: http://www.bretl.com/mpeghtml/MPEGindex.htm

    Another thing is 'streaming' the video, the way the Panasonic DMR-E500H does - but again it depends on how limited the software is!!

    The other thing is firewire/i-link/1394 (just different names for the same thing!) to connect to a digital camcorder, but not many have both input and output.. and is usually MPEG2, but can be any kind, depending on how the company wants to keep its secrets!!

    of course, if you want to get serious about it, start looking for a 'silent PC', and make your own...
     
  14. Don Marco

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    How do you know for sure that the Sony 1010 will have a Freeview tuner, as I've not seen indication on the Sony press release on their website ?
     
  15. Rasczak

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    The Sony RDR-RXD1010 is a UK exclusive model (note the 'D' in the title) which Sony have confirmed will have a Freeview tuner and HDMI. The information has been common knowledge for awhile now - it is even briefly mentioned in the May WVWE preview (not by model number). It is possible we may get both analogue and digital versions of the 1010 - but the DVB version is confirmed and enroute.
     
  16. Don Marco

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    :( I want to see what the new Sony 1010 looks like and havn't found any photos on the net,have you had any luck or is it too early ?
     
  17. Rasczak

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  18. Don Marco

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    Is the RDR-HX1010 the analogue version as mentioned on the Sony press release in your opinion ?
     
  19. Rasczak

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    Maybe - it would fit in with the previous number system.
     
  20. foneman

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    thats great!! :thumbsup: but... just look at these reviews of the RDR HX900 it is based upon...
    http://www.reviewcentre.com/review153676.html :eek:
    http://ecoustics.epinions.com/pr-Sony_RDR-HX900_DVD/linkin_id_~3035301/display_~reviews

    The main problem is you cannot simply record 8 hours of stuff, and then edit it it down to fit on DVDs.. (yes, I have done this with my ToshXS32, and even re-arranged the order!)

    I hope sony has got this fixed, otherwise I will have to get a machine with less features, but more capability... :rolleyes:
     
  21. Rasczak

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    There is no doubt that the editing on the Sony models is less sophesticated than on Toshiba, Pioneer or Panasonic models. If precise editing is important then I would suggest avoiding any Sony model (unless you want to edit on the PC) but for general timeshifters then they will be superb.
     
  22. GadgetObsessed

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    Rasczak - why do you think that Sony should be avoided for editing? I know that Sony's old range had very poor editing facuilities but the new Sonys seem to have similar editing facilities to Panasonic, Toshiba, etc. Or is the key word "precise"? Does the new Sony range not have frame accurate editing?
     
  23. Rasczak

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    If you do a side by side comparison between Sony and the others (Panasonic/Pioneer/Toshiba) then you'll find in most aspects the Sony is the weaker at editing. Either for a lack of precise control, the effect on the cut points, the speed at which the recorder responds to playlist markers etc. 'Avoid' is the wrong word though - the Sony models are great DVD recorders and some people deem the machines other features more important than having the very best editing. It's just they aren't quite as 'slick' as some of the competition for editing. They still do a very decent job though!
     
  24. foneman

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    garydhooper: the key word is 'seem to have' :rolleyes: :mad:

    again, :lease: I'll ask if there are owners out there, who have managed to get their sony to do what is wanted! :lease:

    EG "record 8 hours of stuff, and then edit it it down to fit on DVDs." and if this is your 'party mix' music, the chance to re-arrange the titles would be good also...

    it's a great shame, for a recorder as great as this, to be let down by hopeless editing capability...
     
  25. foneman

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  26. CLH

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    Dual layer could really help Sony. The lack of flexible editing bit rates is somewhat less important when you have two layers!

    Just hope they have sorted out the HDD editing...........
     
  27. rogerh

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    Er - this machine has confused me. I assume this is aimed at those who want to use it with their computers and not as a DVD recorder in the traditional way. It doesn't seem to have a tuner etc.
    However I guess it shows the way Sony are moving which we can look forward to in the mainstream.
     
  28. foneman

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    I dont see why... you obviously havent bothered to look -

    qoute from site - 'This is the "killer" RDZ-D5, a HOME burner that supports DVD +/- but more importantly DVD+R DL (Double Layer). We also need to add that this DVD player has a 250Gb HDD for video recording purposes.'

    the picture should make it obvious..

    If you want to try google it can now translate japanese!! :clap:
    http://www.google.com/language_tools

    http://translate.google.com/transla....html&prev=/search?q=RDZ-D5&num=100&hl=en&lr=

    http://translate.google.com/transla...ucts/&prev=/search?q=RDZ-D5&num=100&hl=en&lr=

    remember all other pages are translated dynamically too, so the *next* pages are also readable!!

    nope, nothing there about computers...
     
  29. rogerh

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    Yes - thanks for the DRY comment.
    I HAVE looked and what I'm unsure of is where this model fits with the 710,910 and 1010 models we are talking about on this thread.
    If this new box is on the Japanese site in detail does that mean that as yet it may not be available in the UK? :confused:
     
  30. foneman

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    :rolleyes: ah, a sense of humor!! hello, stranger.... :thumbsup:

    yes, this is the problem of world markets, and 'not-so-global' companies in the UK (in the US, I'm not sure....) - same company, not so daring in the UK..

    we'll have to just keep our fingers crossed and wait, what with the delay to bluray etc, DL may just get here in time, but I wouldnt bet on it!

    I would bet on this whole mess being repeated with bluray/whatever though!!

    personally, I wouldn't wait , get ability first, quality second (its usually guaranteed..), and big features last...
     

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