Sony RDR HXD710 or Panasonic DMR EH60D. Which is better?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by pdhowes, Sep 29, 2005.

  1. pdhowes

    pdhowes
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    Now that both Sony and Panasonic have recently launched dvd recorders with hard disk and integrated digital tuner - the RDR HXD710 and DMR EH60D respectively, which is the one to get, if either?
     
  2. eleanor

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    good question sony has already good review no doubt panasonic wiil do as well
    big plus for sony is hdmi output supports also double layer
    but panasonic always had better recording qualities
     
  3. rpb

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    Panasonic has Guideplus which might be important
     
  4. nikyzf

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    I'm fairly sure the Sony 910 has HDMI but the 710 does not. Both Sonys have i.Link (DV-in), and I think the Pan does not, which might matter if you have a DV camcorder.
     
  5. ROYOLD

    ROYOLD
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    The Sony Freeview dvd recorders have just the one freeview digital tuner (no analogue).
    The Panasonic EH60D and ES20D have integrated digital Freeview plus analogue tuner.
     
  6. laser

    laser
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    The DMR-EH60D does have an i-link socket and can record both PAL and NTSC sources via i-link and scart.
     
  7. nikyzf

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    Thanks for the correction. I knew there was a reason I ruled it out but that reason must've been the lack of HDMI. :)
     
  8. staiger

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    rpb need to correct you. I have a Panasonic DMR EH60D and it does
    not have Guideplus, all it has is a basic EPG.

    I was hoping it did as per the Guideplus site http://www.europe.guideplus.com
    but a note in the manual states that the full version is currently
    unavailable.
     
  9. HelenS

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    I agree with the comment that the EH60D doesn't have Guideplus as I have one too. Mind you, the Sonys don't have it either because it's only for analogue tuners I believe, and they don't have analogue at all (which the Panasonic does in addition to Freeview). I believe only Pioneers (not the 433 but the 530 and upwards) have it, plus a Sharp. None of those have Freeview.

    Guideplus seems a much more common inclusion on European (and US and Australian) model variants - none of which have Freeview as it's a UK only system.

    Please correct me if I'm wrong or missed any others though...
     
  10. stormjai

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    i,m trying to decide between these two as well.

    Could somedone answer these specific q's

    does either dub with chapters/thumbnails intact from HDD to DVD (if bitrate is not changed - or even better if bitrate is changed to optimise pic quality)

    either easier to use, esp for editing from camcorder (mainly family footage) - so does not have to be extensive editing ability

    both have iLink I understand

    or should I be looking at Pio 530

    i have Sky+, so freeview tuner not essential

    Ta

    Jai
     
  11. ArtS

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    Unfortunately, Sony doesn't transfer thumbnails and chapters while dubbing. You can use Autochapter feature, which sets chapters on DVD with about 6 min intervals. :thumbsdow


    ArtS :cool:
     
  12. Stuart P

    Stuart P
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    the panasonic has 'fr' (flexible recording) recording mode. does sony have a similar mode?
     
  13. rjs316

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    Hey,

    i am looking at both these models and wondered if they can both be made multi-region, and play RCE disks, as most of my dvd collection is region 1?

    Or would i be better getting a dvd player like the sony dv955?

    Cheers
     
  14. ROYOLD

    ROYOLD
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  15. RAB67

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    I believe the Panasonic can dub with chapters/thumbnails intact from HDD to DVD if the bitrate is not changed (ie High Speed Dub set to ON)
     
  16. Rob_J

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    Well i recently got the 60D and its great, very good quality even in LP mode.
     
  17. BlackRaven

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    So - have we got a conclusion on which is the better of the 2?
     
  18. HelenS

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    I bet that's a well-nigh impossible conclusion to come to - very few people will have bought both, or had one and switched to the other as they're both new. Personally, I've got the Panasonic DMR-EH60D and I don't wish I'd had the Sony RDR-HXD710, because I'm happy with the Panny so have no reason to consider it - but for all I know, I might have been equally happy with the Sony...!

    If there is a preference, it'll be down to the user's wants/needs. Could be as simple as preferring one manufacturer's user interface to another, or as trivial as preferring the styling of one unit over the other. On a functional level, some people might prefer the Sony because they want to record and share DVD+RW discs (which the Panasonic can't do - it can only PLAY those), or use DVD-RW in VR mode (which the Panasonic can't but doesn't need to - see next point) - or they might prefer the Panasonic because they want to record and share DVD-RAM discs (which the Sony can't, and which is why the Panasonic doesn't do VR on DVD-RW, because DVD-RAM fulfils that purpose). Or if they want to use double-layer discs, the Sony is the one - but there again, you have LP mode at full resolution on the Panasonic, making that mode higher-quality than the same setting on the Sony! Then again, if you want to be able to fill in the gaps in local Freeview reception with analogue channels, the Panasonic is definitely the one, as its tuner receives both (a feature still unique to Panasonic as I type this). On the other hand, if you want control over playback/recording controls such as brightness, contrast, then the Sony offers it but the Panasonic doesn't (but I wouldn't have said it needed it on mine anyway). And so it goes on! Not an easy choice. At present the Sony is probably the cheaper of the two, but has a slightly lower capacity HDD (160GB versus 200GB). Whether the price difference will remain is anyone's guess.
     
  19. Fantasio

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    If I plug a satellite receiver with analogue SECAM on the AUX Scart. Will I be able to record to HDD or the DVD ? What do I need do make it work ? An RGB output signal from the receiver ?

    thanks your help
     
  20. pjskel

    pjskel
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    It'll record to either and as it has RGB enabled on the input SCART, then you will benefit from that if your satellite box outputs that - which most, if not all, do.
    SCART cable with all 21 pins wired - pretty much standard fayre nowadays - is all you'll need. Check menus to make sure it's set to accept RGB in. If like the JVCs, you can choose RGB, S-Video, and Composite, to match the output of the box feeding the signal.
     
  21. Eric Badger

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    There's a short review of the HXD710 in the current What HiFi magazine. They report that the quality of its digital tuner is marginally better than the Panasonic's. Probably not enough to be an issue for most people though.

    As HelenS says, in the end it's down which feature set and aspects of functionality people prefer that will influence their purchasing decision, rather than the minimal differences in performance quality.

    That and the fact that the Sony just looks so much better, of course!
     
  22. HelenS

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    All a matter of taste though! The Panasonic's prettier in real life than in photos, as it has a mirrored finish to the dark section and a rather attractive cobalt-blue LED strip over the SD slot...!

    Whilst I'm being trivial: Pioneers look quite nice too - but is that really a screwhead they have on top, off centre in one of two depressions? Looks sort of strange... I wondered if it was a control button of some sort?
     
  23. Eric Badger

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    It's purely subjective, as you say. I tend to go for the understated look when it comes to AV kit and find the Panasonic just too shiny and plasticy. As for that SD slot cover, it just feels rather cheap and not at all in keeping with the overall tactile experience!

    Surprisingly the Sony looks a lot like my ancient (but still going strong) Beta machine which I still use occassionally as a backup recorder. Equipment styling comes in cycles I've noticed and I'm looking forward to the time everything returns to black.

    I haven't really examined any of the Pioneer models up close as they're not on my short-list, not being Freeview enabled.
     
  24. David Robinson

    David Robinson
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    Hmmm... I just downloaded the user manual for the Panasonic, and it looks as if it doesn't record directly from the internal DTT tuner, because it talks about setting the record mode i.e. quality. This would imply that the internal Freeview has to be decompressed and then re-compressed and possibly even goes to analogue before being digitised again. If true this is pretty poor for a machine in this price bracket and will be inferior to much cheaper PVRs such as the Humax PVR-8000T, Pace Twin etc.

    Is this really the case? What about the Sony?
     
  25. HelenS

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    Well... I have read that the Sony records all-digitally - and it offers the choice of its various recording speeds too. Panasonic haven't officially said, but I recall that when Rasczak on these forums tested the Panasonic against the Sony, the recording quality was at least as good (he may have said slightly better, though he was comparing it with the previous-generation Sony with Freeview, come to think of it). All I can say for sure, is that having the Panasonic EH60D myself, in SP mode (5 MB/sec), let alone XP (10 MB/sec) the quality of a recording is indistinguishable from a live Freeview broadcast (on my 28 inch Sony Trinitron CRT TV, anyway). I am quite picky actually - I have high visual acuity (if that's what you call it - I mean I see artefacts easily and get annoyed by them).
     
  26. Eric Badger

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    Surely if the signal wasn't processed directly after the tuner then its output data stream would be recorded directly onto DVD as well as the HDD. Wouldn't that mean that you couldn't play the DVD recordings on anything than the original recorder?

    In any case, I'm not sure why the nature of the decoding/re-encoding process is a concern. Most people will judge performance on how well recordings reproduce the orignal source material. If their eyes can't tell the two apart then the device is doing its job. From what I've been reading here and in magazine reviews both the Panasonic and Sony models achieve this standard easily and at realistic recording densities (at least 2hrs on a single layer DVD).
     
  27. pjskel

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    AFAIK, all HDD/DVD recorders can't get past a limitation of Freeview being recorded digitally - they have to process the data stream as it's too much info to buffer and whatnot. Plus it carries info that's not required, so this needs stripe out.
    I don't believe it is converted to analog form and then back to digital when recording - think it just clocks the data at a different rate, according to what recording quality level has been selected, once the surplus stuff has been removed.
    That's why there's not much of a hit on the image recorded compared to the live transmission in the higher quality modes.
     
  28. HelenS

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    Absolutely - I agree with that. And even with a really good Freeview tuner, it seems to me that the quality of the Freeview picture (when seen as a live broadcast) is still the limiting factor anyway - good HDD/DVD recorders can easily maintain its quality without any loss as their best and second best quality settings - at the best, they probably outperform it!
     
  29. PeteTh

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    I read a claim about the new Philips DVDR9000H in the news section of a recent UK mag, that states that it records digital terrestial as is. Not sure whether this is true though.
     
  30. ROYOLD

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    ....and, of course, if the Freeview service is unreceivable due to weather conditions then you have had it with the single freeview tuner in the Sony's whereas you could continue with the Panasonic using the analogue tuner.
     

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