Sony PS3's Entitlements Explained (You can't sell your used games!!!)

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Smak

Member
Sorry if I have missed something here but is there any new info that would suggest Sony are going ahead with this or is this same dismissed patent from the start of year that has been brought up yet again?

Agreed this would be a very bad move, as currently I'm always round my mates swapping games or taking games round to friends for gamming sessions.

Hopefully TGS will shine some light on the subject :rolleyes:
 
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Deleted member 65413

Guest
Ill not suffer from it. If that patent is enforced then ill just continue to happily trade my Wii and 360 titles here. Sony can go **** if they think im purchasing a console who's titles i cant sell on.
 

CAS FAN

Distinguished Member
So the rumours are true then. I know that this has been discussed before but it was pretty much dismissed as something that Somy looked into but would never do in reality. It seems we were wrong :eek:.

Essentially this means that you can't rent, borrow from a friend or easily buy games 2nd hand from shops. It seems that the only way you can sell a game is via Sony's service where the rights are transferred from one owner to another. This simply wouldn't work in shops who sell pre-owned as both the original seller and buyer would have to exchange details and I doubt that people would want to do that with total strangers anyway. I guess people could still arrange to do deals over forums such as this (especially between members who know each other well) but it would be a lot of extra hassle!

This has pretty much confirmed to me that the PS3 is actually just a wind up - they can't seriously be releasing this thing can they? What are Sony doing - first they force people who want a PS3 to buy blu ray and charge them over £400 for the pleasure, they make a huge and rather unattractive console, the games are rumoured to be more expensive than 360 games, they then announce that they won't even supply an HDMI lead and just when you thought they were done they decide to drop the worldwide release and shaft over Europe. You would have thought at that stage that they had pretty much got rid of all but the most ardent fanboys from their customer base but Sony wish to go even further!! They then announce that you won't just be able to lend out, rent or easily sell your games, pretty much leaving the pre-owned market to Microsoft!

Sony - all many of us want is a £250-£300 PS3 with a DVD drive, the ability to easily buy/rent/borrow 2nd hand games and a console released the same time as rest of the world. Stop shafting over gamers just to promote your damn blu ray format and leave the 2nd hand market alone :nono:.

I can see a time in the future where all games are downloaded and the 2nd hand market will not exist by default, but to try and kill it now when your closest competitor isn't doing the same will be suicide!
 

bishman

Well-known Member
So the rumours are true then. I know that this has been discussed before but it was pretty much dismissed as something that Somy looked into but would never do in reality. It seems we were wrong :eek:.
Where has it been confirmed that this is definately happening?
 

rik1471

Active Member
This has pretty much confirmed to me that the PS3 is actually just a wind up - they can't seriously be releasing this thing can they? What are Sony doing - first they force people who want a PS3 to buy blu ray and charge them over £400 for the pleasure, they make a huge and rather unattractive console, the games are rumoured to be more expensive than 360 games, they then announce that they won't even supply an HDMI lead and just when you thought they were done they decide to drop the worldwide release and shaft over Europe. You would have thought at that stage that they had pretty much got rid of all but the most ardent fanboys from their customer base but Sony wish to go even further!! They then announce that you won't just be able to lend out, rent or easily sell your games, pretty much leaving the pre-owned market to Microsoft!


Wow, when you put it like that it really doesn't paint a pretty picture does it? You also missed the removal of rumble from the pads, sure that belongs in that list somewhere.
 

JamesOD

Active Member
My wife works in Patents and it is not a cheap thing to do so they have paid up and invested some cash to do this.

They will go this way at some point whether that will be PS3 or PS4 who knows but it will just mean the end for the PS brand.

People do not like to be told what they can or cannot do with thier property if I buy a game I should be able to lend it to whomever I want or sell it afterwards as it is MY property.
 

Kazman

Well-known Member
My wife works in Patents and it is not a cheap thing to do so they have paid up and invested some cash to do this.

They will go this way at some point whether that will be PS3 or PS4 who knows but it will just mean the end for the PS brand.

People do not like to be told what they can or cannot do with thier property if I buy a game I should be able to lend it to whomever I want or sell it afterwards as it is MY property.

technically, you only have a licence to use the product, you don't neccersarily own it.

If Sony do this though, it will be commercial suicide.

Personally, for me, I rarely trade games, and usually only do so if a new sequel comes out and I have no need to play the earlier versions any more. BUT, I know a LOT of people who do trade or sell on their games, including my own brother. So I can see this (if they do implement it) as being a huge turn off for many users.
 
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Deleted member 65413

Guest
Watch how GAME and such like stores take this news. They make most of their profit from second hand games.
 
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Deleted member 65413

Guest
Personally, for me, I rarely trade games, and usually only do so if a new sequel comes out and I have no need to play the earlier versions any more. BUT, I know a LOT of people who do trade or sell on their games, including my own brother. So I can see this (if they do implement it) as being a huge turn off for many users.

I buy alot of games, many of which are impluse buys but sell them on here if i dont like them or complete quickly. I buy alot of second hand games as well, not from GAME btw, and there is no way im going to be told what i can and cannot do with my purchases. I work hard enough and pay enough for my hobby. They have lost a customer in me.
 

Toasty

Distinguished Member
This is an important issue and I'm not convinced Sony have confirmed this will be rolled out with the PS3. However, if and when this does go live Gaming will no longer be affordable to the masses. Regardless of whether you use the second hand market or not, it does drive the general cost of the retail market down over time and if this is eliminated prices will become a monopoly where the RRP remains high and you'll have to jump through hoops just to save yourself a few quid.
 

CAS FAN

Distinguished Member
Where has it been confirmed that this is definately happening?

I figured that this was some form of confirmation - can't see the point of the OP posting this if it is simply more rumour as the rumours have already been done to death on this subject.

I guess it does seem to tie in with the whole entiltements thing. I hope for Sony's sake that they decide not to go down this route though.
 

Ratinho

Well-known Member
I figured that this was some form of confirmation - can't see the point of the OP posting this if it is simply more rumour as the rumours have already been done to death on this subject.

Heh, because that never happens on here. I can think of another reason someone might post this tbh, and I think we all could really.

Afaik, this idea was put on the backburner very quickly from Sony, and nothing suggests they are implementing it for the PS3.

Much like the football transfer market, a rumour will exist aslong as people dig up the old stories.
 

Bilbob

Well-known Member
Thinking back... this rumour was put to bed quickly by Sony... but this latest news is FAR more fleshed out than the original patent. The original story was poo-poohed, but I'm more than a little worried that this one might actually happen...

IF it does, then the likes of Game and Gamestation are gonna be worried, and you might even see a boycott. They make vast amount of their profit from the sale of used games.
Ultimately, I can't believe even Sony would be stupid enough to actually do this. It would be commercial suicide. they know it, we know it. On the plus side, it would generate more sales, and a new stream of used game revenue. On the down side, far less games sold, as anyone with enough sense avoids the system like the plague...

The sooner Sony say this aint true the better. And none of that 'we've already commented on this' crap, cos they ain't. They commented on a different angle completely.

/crosses fingers and hopes it ain't true...
 

Smak

Member
Why else would they apply for this patent? Plus it sounds like something Sony would do, do you not agree?

The patent was applied for towards the start of year and was dismissed shortly afterwards, from my understanding there is no new info that would suggest that Sony are re-considering the idea, I'm I wrong or is this the same furom discussion people were having over 6 months ago?
 

Bilbob

Well-known Member
As I said Smak, if you remember the original thread(s) about it, there was no where near this level of detail in it, which lead sme to belive that it does indeed have some substance, as Sony have certainly been doing more work on the idea than they originally admitted...
 

Smak

Member
As I said Smak, if you remember the original thread(s) about it, there was no where near this level of detail in it, which lead sme to belive that it does indeed have some substance, as Sony have certainly been doing more work on the idea than they originally admitted...

Sorry I was writting my post while you posted yours, although I fail to see the difference now and then. Is this not the same patent applied for back at the start of the year (or this a new patent)?
 

CAS FAN

Distinguished Member
Heh, because that never happens on here. I can think of another reason someone might post this tbh, and I think we all could really.

Afaik, this idea was put on the backburner very quickly from Sony, and nothing suggests they are implementing it for the PS3.

Much like the football transfer market, a rumour will exist aslong as people dig up the old stories.

Indeed, I hope they don't go down this route as I feel it would be disaterous for them. I'm sure they realise this too. Still I guess there's no smoke without fire, but i'd guess that it's just something for the future as opposed to this gen.
 
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Deleted member 39001

Guest
Even if this is for the next gen PS, are you really gonna support it? Patents are usually filed to stop anyone else using or inventing the technology right? And in that case no company is going to buy one without thinking of using it.
Just take a look at the Music and Movie world today will you, you've got Apple being named the damned by record company's because of it's cheap pricing, they all claim to be going bust and the movie business are also claiming to be going bust (in my view it's more likely because of the utter tosh films they keep churning out, have you seen snakes on a plane?)

Now all these company's think the solution to there problems is DRM, or to sue a 12 year old kid. So Sony will no doubt use some sort of high powered DRM for it's blue ray format otherwise no movie distributor will use it. The same goes for it's games, I bet you can get copied 360 games easily and this patent is a way of protecting PS3 games from theft.
That's the excuse Sony will no doubt use and it will find in the end like all the others that pushing this sort of tech does the opposite and forces more piracy as not too many people like paying £60 for a game, although Sony seem to think they have the adult gamming world sown up for them selves.

The second hand market is a great thing, I buy second hand games as there good and cheap. My local Gamestation has a nice selection and they are usually far cheaper then on line, some 360 games are £25, I can check on line prices before visiting the shop. I couldn't really care where the money goes as in the end I'm the winner in value for money which is all I care about, not a profiteering monopoly.

Sony need to protect there new format to ensure it's success and this is one way I've no doubt they'll do it. But eveyone seems to forget the blindingly obvious, if it's made on a computer, it can be broken on a computer.
I don't understand why when there is talk of a new format being required that Sony always feel abliged to make one, why can't they leave it to someone else for a change?
 

JamesOD

Active Member
This won't Just effect Game/Gamestation it will also impact on eb/gamestop in the US who make a huge amount on the trade-in market and finally kill off the independent videogame retailer :(

The thing to look at here is not the inability to trade games but the way in which not having a second hand market will allow publishers to keep prices higher for a longer duration.

I know when I buy a game I don't own the "software" only the medium it is distributed on but as a consumer I should be allowed to decide what happens to it after purchase.

There is no Justification for this it just smacks of price rigging and desperation on sony's part.
 

tripodjw

Active Member
Apolloa has pretty much hit the nail on the head about patenting.

A patent does not allow the owner to do something, it just provides a tool to prevent other people from doing it.

I couldn't be bothered to read the claims of the patent application of interest but from the posts above the crux of the issue is linking a game to a machine so it can't be used on another machine by internet based recordal of the association. This is already pretty much being done by MS - Arcade games can't be used on other xbox360's now can they?

I'm a patent attorney (for my sins) and big companies like Sony, will file patents on every idea they come up with, whether they think it useful to them or not. Basically the big companies do this to prevent other companies from getting close to technology they themselves are working on, or just to hack their competitors off. Say this Sony patent grants, it may be MS are infringing it with the arcade in its current form Sony will sue, or maybe Ninty will infringe based on their equivalent of the arcade. I'm sure MS have similar patents which they'll wave at sony and Ninty, and Ninty will do the same.

And so the patent world goes round, paying my wage (huzzah!)


Patents, particularly in the high tech field are usually so far out of date by the time they are granted it is unbelievable, fthey are always filed to actually prevent competitors doing stuff.

The fact Sony have filed for this patent may not even mean they prosecute it to a granted patent, it may just stick around as an application - but becaus eit has been published - it stuffs up other people applying for a patent on the same or similar technology.

patenting strategy is highly comples, which is why people like me exist. I have clients that file on everything they do just to annoy their biggest rival, others file on just the tecnhnology they are actually interested in commercialising. The bigger the company, the bigger the patent budget (this can be millions per yr) - the more patents they file - most of which the technology from never even make sit into a product.

So until Sony say that DRM and one disc one machine is inherent in the ps3, then this is all speculation.
 

eternaldark

Active Member
Assuming for 1 minute this is true, what happens when a few years down the line little johnny has a few PS3 games, his PS3 dies so he goes and gets a new one to discover all his games suddenly dont work as its not the same console as he used to have,.

What provision would sony make for that scenario?

Sony seem to be going our their way to make the playstation as unattractive a purchase as possible, why have they not released an official statement condoning this?:suicide:

I'm sorry but if this turns out to be true, The PS3 will be the last playstation console.
 
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