Sony/Panasonic 3D TV Demoed

retrouk

Active Member
Hi everyone, nice to meet you all. Not posted for a while so here goes.
I'm a big fan of 3D and regularly watch 3D Movies in the Cinema.
Still not upgraded either to LCD/Plasma due to my trusty CRT which I'm still very happy with.
However with 3DTV sets now emerging, it gives me a good reason to upgrade !
I had the chance over the weekend to demo both the Sony 3D LCD & Panasonic 3D Plasma.
First will start with the Sony 3D LCD. As soon as I put the glasses on, I started to feel ill and sick. I have no idea why that is. The 3D content was superb and amazing to watch, however it made me ill.
I then decided to goto the Pansonic store and demo their 3D Plasma. It was absolutely superb and more importantly, it did not make me ill.
I am not sure why the Sony 3D LCD made me feel ill. Could it be related to the refresh rate on the LCD ?
Was thinking about buying the 50 inch Panasonic 3D Plasma when I was told that their are new Panasonic 3D models on the way in September which will have a simulation mode which effectively allows you to view 2d content as 3D
Will be holding off till then !

:)
 
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panman40

Distinguished Member
Hi everyone, nice to meet you all. Not posted for a while so here goes.
I'm a big fan of 3D and regularly watch 3D Movies in the Cinema.
Still not upgraded either to LCD/Plasma due to my trusty CRT which I'm still very happy with.
However with 3DTV sets now emerging, it gives me a good reason to upgrade !
I had the chance over the weekend to demo both the Sony 3D LCD & Panasonic LCD Plasma.
First will start with the Sony 3D LCD. As soon as I put the glasses on, I started to feel ill and sick. I have no idea why that is. The 3D content was superb and amazing to watch, however it made me ill.
I then decided to goto the Pansonic store and demo their 3D Plasma. It was absolutely superb and more importantly, it did not make me ill.
I am not sure why the Sony 3D LCD made me feel ill. Could it be related to the refresh rate on the LCD ?
Was thinking about buying the 50 inch Panasonic 3D Plasma when I was told that their are new Panasonic 3D models on the way in September which will have a simulation mode which effectively allows you to view 2d content as 3D
Will be holding off till then !

:)

Hi, who told you that Panny are are launching a new model in september :confused:, I was told if i wait until next spring 3D tv's will not require the viewer to wear glasses !!.:)
 

Kalos Geros

Active Member
Any reference for that? I'm sure many would be interested!

I'm sure it's just a "knowledgable" guess of a salesman :D...if the discontinued Philips model that doesn't require glasses is any guideline, glassless 3D TV will not be worth buying for some years to come...hell, even passive 3D TVs are not very good...
 

retrouk

Active Member
Hi was told about the upcoming new models in my local Panasonic store where I demoed the TX -P50VT20B.
Hope this helps !
 

leicester_boy

Active Member
Hi everyone, nice to meet you all. Not posted for a while so here goes.
I'm a big fan of 3D and regularly watch 3D Movies in the Cinema.
Still not upgraded either to LCD/Plasma due to my trusty CRT which I'm still very happy with.
However with 3DTV sets now emerging, it gives me a good reason to upgrade !
I had the chance over the weekend to demo both the Sony 3D LCD & Panasonic LCD Plasma.
First will start with the Sony 3D LCD. As soon as I put the glasses on, I started to feel ill and sick. I have no idea why that is. The 3D content was superb and amazing to watch, however it made me ill.
I then decided to goto the Pansonic store and demo their 3D Plasma. It was absolutely superb and more importantly, it did not make me ill.
I am not sure why the Sony 3D LCD made me feel ill. Could it be related to the refresh rate on the LCD ?
Was thinking about buying the 50 inch Panasonic 3D Plasma when I was told that their are new Panasonic 3D models on the way in September which will have a simulation mode which effectively allows you to view 2d content as 3D
Will be holding off till then !

:)

They wont be out until spring 2011 but there is a 42vt20 rumoured to be out in september.
 

Sunshinewelly

Distinguished Member
Hi, who told you that Panny are are launching a new model in september :confused:, I was told if i wait until next spring 3D tv's will not require the viewer to wear glasses !!.:)


you will be waiting a very long time for any manufacturer to release an affordable 3d set which will not require glasses.

whilst you are waiting i can sit at home and get a few years of viewing pleasure with my low tech active 3D set from samsung.

You will also have to wait a while before you see the 2d - 3d convertor on the panny - the only other manufacture with this feature is toshiba.

panny have missed a trick by not including this feature on their sets
 

SteveCritten

Distinguished Member
I'm sure it's just a "knowledgable" guess of a salesman :D...if the discontinued Philips model that doesn't require glasses is any guideline, glassless 3D TV will not be worth buying for some years to come...hell, even passive 3D TVs are not very good...

Who told you that???? IMHO The only reason they are not pushing the LG or any other passive model is because the powers that be believe that the techies will want full 1080p 3D and they will be the ones that buy the initial 3D TV's. Once things settle down Jo P will settle for the passive 3D as it will work out cheaper to get the mates round in the long run ie because the glasses are cheap.

By the way I couldn't see any difference between the types of 3D when demoing them so how you can say passive are no good??
 

Kalos Geros

Active Member
Who told you that???? IMHO The only reason they are not pushing the LG or any other passive model is because the powers that be believe that the techies will want full 1080p 3D and they will be the ones that buy the initial 3D TV's. Once things settle down Jo P will settle for the passive 3D as it will work out cheaper to get the mates round in the long run ie because the glasses are cheap.

By the way I couldn't see any difference between the types of 3D when demoing them so how you can say passive are no good??

Good for you! In my case the screendoor effect was oh so visible due to every other line of pixels being oppositely polarized and it ruined the experience...it was an LG 950...I wander how you failed to notice that, perhaps because you were very far away from the screen...yes, it probably is good enough for pubs, it's no so good for home use IMHO...glassless philips is quite a couple of notches worse, very very visible screendoor and unstable 3D, dependent on the viewing angle...I don't see it getting considerably better within a few years...
 

SteveCritten

Distinguished Member
Good for you! In my case the screendoor effect was oh so visible due to every other line of pixels being oppositely polarized and it ruined the experience...it was an LG 950...I wander how you failed to notice that, perhaps because you were very far away from the screen...yes, it probably is good enough for pubs, it's no so good for home use IMHO...glassless philips is quite a couple of notches worse, very very visible screendoor and unstable 3D, dependent on the viewing angle...I don't see it getting considerably better within a few years...

Again sorry to contradict you again kalos but did you have the glasses on upside down!!!!

All those millions of people that go to the cinema to watch 3D films(and 90%) use the passive system and very rarely have I heard anybody say "I had a bad experience with passive but as soon as I saw the same film with shutter glasses it was fantastic".
 

Kalos Geros

Active Member
Again sorry to contradict you again kalos but did you have the glasses on upside down!!!!

All those millions of people that go to the cinema to watch 3D films(and 90%) use the passive system and very rarely have I heard anybody say "I had a bad experience with passive but as soon as I saw the same film with shutter glasses it was fantastic".

Sorry, but cinema and TV passive systems differ a great deal...cinema projectors do not use alternate-line polarization but sequential frame polarization, i.e. polarization is changed per full frame, so left-eye frame is completely polarized in one direction and the right-eye frame in other direction so you don't get the screendor effect because you get full resolution on both eyes...

however, I allow for a possibility that manufacturers other than LG potentially have means to counter-effect or dimnish the effect the alternate-line polarizarion creates...
 
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SteveCritten

Distinguished Member
Kalos, how come when I watched the football in the pub not one person took the glasses off and walked out. I thought the 3D effect was brilliant! I must admit I prefer the Panasonic after a demo but I wouldn't say there was a big difference. I accept that maybe the occassional person might get an adverse reaction(they also do with the shutter glasses mind). What I took exception to was your completely dismissive statement that all passive TV's arent very good!!
 

Kalos Geros

Active Member
so polarised/passive glasses is more likely to be the solution for front projectors?

Indeed!

Kalos, how come when I watched the football in the pub not one person took the glasses off and walked out. I thought the 3D effect was brilliant! I must admit I prefer the Panasonic after a demo but I wouldn't say there was a big difference. I accept that maybe the occassional person might get an adverse reaction(they also do with the shutter glasses mind). What I took exception to was your completely dismissive statement that all passive TV's arent very good!!

there is nothing wrong with the 3D effect per se, it's there all right in spades, but rather with the screen door artefacts thay accompany it and which may not be readily identifiable to an untrained eye, especially if viewed from further away...I don't see why anyone would leave the pub...even if it were the bad old anaglyph, footie in 3D would be perplexing enough...:D

I'm not dismissing the passive system, I'm just saying that it has an inherent physical fault in its application with TVs (fixed alternate polarized lines i.e. practically half resolution) which may prove hard to overcome technically...

active shutter systems can be electronically sped up further to eliminate flicker (if any)...
 
Watched the Sony 3D system today. It looked amazing, and I didn't feel ill at all. The glasses are very well made, they are totally comfortable. For £1700 the reasonable sized TV (about 32in) is a bargain. I would prefer to wait for a 50in version however. But 3D feels right, and is no longer a gimmick, 3D is the future, and I could watch any movie in this style. Alice In Wonderland 2D up-convert to 3D even looks amazing.
 

tazza

Standard Member
Hi everyone, nice to meet you all. Not posted for a while so here goes.
I'm a big fan of 3D and regularly watch 3D Movies in the Cinema.
Still not upgraded either to LCD/Plasma due to my trusty CRT which I'm still very happy with.
However with 3DTV sets now emerging, it gives me a good reason to upgrade !
I had the chance over the weekend to demo both the Sony 3D LCD & Panasonic LCD Plasma.
First will start with the Sony 3D LCD. As soon as I put the glasses on, I started to feel ill and sick. I have no idea why that is. The 3D content was superb and amazing to watch, however it made me ill.
I then decided to goto the Pansonic store and demo their 3D Plasma. It was absolutely superb and more importantly, it did not make me ill.
I am not sure why the Sony 3D LCD made me feel ill. Could it be related to the refresh rate on the LCD ?
Was thinking about buying the 50 inch Panasonic 3D Plasma when I was told that their are new Panasonic 3D models on the way in September which will have a simulation mode which effectively allows you to view 2d content as 3D
Will be holding off till then !

:)
Sorry, but what is an LCD Plasma exactly? It's either one or the other!
 

richard plumb

Distinguished Member
Watched the Sony 3D system today. It looked amazing, and I didn't feel ill at all. The glasses are very well made, they are totally comfortable. For £1700 the reasonable sized TV (about 32in) is a bargain. I would prefer to wait for a 50in version however. But 3D feels right, and is no longer a gimmick, 3D is the future, and I could watch any movie in this style. Alice In Wonderland 2D up-convert to 3D even looks amazing.

it would have been 40" if that makes you feel any better :) TVs can tend to look smaller in shops.
 
Has anyone actually seen the TV's convert standard television to 3D yet? The Sony can do it, but I haven't seen it. I wonder what it looks like?
 

Kalos Geros

Active Member
I've seen the VT20 demoed yesterday! My thoughts:

1) There is depth to the picture but not strikingly so, like " in your face" (different content or more eye separation would have helped perhaps)

2) Only slight screendoor "felt" (probably because I was closer to the screen than I should have been), negligibale compared to the passive LG that I saw...

3) had to further lean forwards on a 50" screen (1 m from it???) to get any kind of immersion (3D effect didn't get more profound, as one would expect, but the feeling of "looking through a window" was less felt), the feeling generally was somewhat like looking through the binoculars the wrong way around, like the image was shrinked...:D elements that are extremely closer to the viewer than the rest of the scene do seem in correct placement in space but somehow not in correct "size" to th environment - this the general problem found on all 3D displays IMHO...

4) didn't find problems with light intruding from the sides of the glasses, as others have pointed out, probably because there was no light in the booth since it was completely shut off from outside light i.e it was a dark chamber...:D

5) the glasses themselves were comfortable enough, didn't find them too heavy or intruding as I wore them over my prescriptions...

6) haven't noticed any flickering from the screen but BD player's LCD alphanumeric display flickered...expectedly because it was not "in sync" with the glasses...Panasonic could try correcting this..heh...

7) I had a hard time focusing my eyes occasionally, depending on characteristics of motion vs depth, and 24Hz judder was somewhat annoying during fast motion scenes when paired with 3D (probably because, while 3D depth attempts at providing the notion of real-life depth experience, you expect the motion to be real-lifelike as well, i.e natural and smooth)...hmmm...

so there you go...it is working, some refinement is in order though..
 
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SteveCritten

Distinguished Member
Kalos I notice you mention 'prescriptions' I wonder if this is why you do not get a decent 3D effect. There is a thread about 3D and poor eyesight, I haven't read it as my eye sight is fine. but could explain things. That will probably be the next gimmick prescription 3D TV's:D
 

Kalos Geros

Active Member
Kalos I notice you mention 'prescriptions' I wonder if this is why you do not get a decent 3D effect. There is a thread about 3D and poor eyesight, I haven't read it as my eye sight is fine. but could explain things. That will probably be the next gimmick prescription 3D TV's:D

Will pop over to the thread you mention, but wouldn't the properly "calibrated" :rotfl: prescriptions which I believe is what I wear (cost me 400 GBP, blast 'em), bring about correct percepton of depth...the 3D material I saw on the LG was mostly of "in-your-face" variety and it really did jump in my face and there was 3D in spades - same prescriptions, so I don't think that's it - perhaps Panasonic demos are less "profound"...:cool:

err...now that I think of it, would you call a 400GBP worth od eyeglasses prescriptions...:rolleyes:
 

DrDamn

Active Member
I've noticed what seems to be a lot of variation between sets but it's based purely on content, it's only when you see the same demo on different sets that it is possible to make a comparison.

Some demos do look a lot like planes of depth, but it really is down to the material in general. There are some great clips which show good depth and variation in depth on all sets.

It's similar to a good photographic composition, you need a good variety of depths and preferably something which leads you through the scene. It's why games like racers and FPS lend themselves well to the technology.
 

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