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Sony KV36FS70, will not respond to 'wide' signals

Discussion in 'TVs' started by Jon Weaver, Jan 18, 2001.

  1. Jon Weaver

    Jon Weaver
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    I have been playing with my new FS70 and found a problem with devices which provide a 'wide' signal on the scart, i.e. Digibox or DVD.

    Normally, pin 8 on the scart, tells the TV to auto-select an input and which 'wide' mode to go into.

    This works fine.. If I am for example watching BBC1 and then turn on my DVD, Pin 8 goes high and the TV switches to AV1. Then when the video goes 'wide', Pin 8 reflects the mode and the TV switches from SMART to WIDE..

    BUT.. When you select AV1 manually, the TV does nothing with the wide signal.. So, say you are watching the DVD and then switch to BBC1, then switch back to the DVD (AV1), the TV does not reaspond to wide, it just stays in SMART.

    This can be easily seen with Sky DIgital..

    As a test, channels 301, 302 and 303 are 4:3, where as 305 is always WIDE.

    If you turn on Sky, the TV switches to its AV, then if you selected these channels, the TV swaps between WIDE and SMART respectivly.

    But, if you MANUALLY select the AV input, it says on SMART all the time!

    It seems like the TV ignores Pin 8 when a user has manually selected the input.

    The only way to get it back into auto mode is to put the TV back onto another channel, switch off the device, wait, switch it back on (So that the TV auto-selects the input). Then its works fine again.

    Do ALL Sony TVs do this?

    Anyone else seen this?
     
  2. Richard Wrist

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    From experience there has always been a difference in the way that Sony and Toshiba handle the scart control signals. Sony have always viewed the signal as edge triggered (i.e. it has to change state before it gets recognised), Toshiba view it as level triggered (as long as it is in a state it gets noted).

    I have a new 36FS70, but can't check it at the moment (i'm in the US). However, this doesn't particularly worry me. It's probable that the rational is, if you need to manually turn it to AV1 then the control signals are not supported and you need to change everything manually.

    Rather than turning the digibox off, can you press TV, and then press SKY to get it to go back to sky. This used to work on my old 25", but haven't tried it on the 36 (only had it 2 days before I came out here).

    For you issue on headphone sockets, how often do you expect to use it in that mode? Again it doesn't bother me, but I expect to use it a couple of times a year (if that).#

    Dickie
     
  3. Jon Weaver

    Jon Weaver
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    Hi Richard,

    Thanks for the reply...

    It doesn't seem that its as simple as being 'edge triggered'.

    As soon as you manually select an input, it doesn't work.. No matter what you do.. Even if you switch the DVD/Digibox off/on.. The Sony has to actually switch from a channel to the AV for it to respond to wide.

    As you say, this isn't a major problem.. But, imagine that you are scanning through Sky and then you want to check a non Sky source.. i.e. ITV. You select Channel 3 and then go back to Sky.. After that, it doesn't auto select WIDE anymore.. This causes a problem, because an increasing number of channels support 16:9 (anamporphic) and now the ratio is wrong.

    With regards to the PAP/Headphone issue.. this shouldn't be a problem.. But, I wanted to be able to us my DreamCast on the 2nd (right) side whilst my missus was watching TV.

    But, PAP doesn't support RGB on the right, and the DC ONLY outputs RGB!.. So, I have to have the TV pic on the right and the DC on the left.. But the sound of the comes out. Fortuantly, switching the Dual Sound mode to PAP, not only routes the sound to the Headphones, but to the phonos at the back too.. Meaning that I can wire it up to my amp...

    But it doesn't save.. Again, not a major issue, but an inconvenience.
     
  4. Demon

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    What about WSS (Wide Screen SIgnalling) I know that you may of alrady thought about this, but I was under the impression that WSS is embedded in the signal, and I knwo that this can be turned on/off on some TV's , the SCART switching is the older previous system, but since this doesn't help terrestrial or any other non-scart signal, I think WSS is the preferred method...
    This may be cak, maybe someone can enlighten me to the real WSS/SCART switching thing....
     
  5. Jon Weaver

    Jon Weaver
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    The way I understand it is that the TV works in 2 ways.

    1. SCART control.

    Pin 8 signals the status.. Not sure of the exact voltages of hand, but think its:-

    0 volts - OFF
    1-2volts - 16:9 (WIDE)
    >2 volts - 4:3 (SMART)

    So, when the external device is OFF, the TV shows what you want it to. When you switch the external box on, Pin 8 goes high and the TV switches over. Then when the external box shows WideSCreen material, Pin 8 goes to 1-2v and the TV switches to wide.

    2. Auto Mode

    When the TV detects Black borders, it auto adjusts.

    This can also happen when the picture is dark. The TV then sees that the top and bottom is black and assumes that its 16:9, so adjusts the ratio accordingly.


    Thats the only 2 ways that a TV auto-switches as far as I know
     
  6. M.Joshi

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    Have you tried other televisions. Perhaps it is a problem with your particular set. I would suggest that you take your DVD to the store you purchased the TV from an try testing it there, if this is possible.
     
  7. Jon Weaver

    Jon Weaver
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    M.Joshi

    Yes, this is a problem to this particular models (or perhaps all Sony models).

    I had a Panasonic before, which, would respond instantly to changes on the voltage on pin 8.

    HOwever, the Sony is by far the best set I have seen and this problem is not serious enough to warrent changing it.. Its just an inconvenience.
     
  8. dcw

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    I have the same problem. I bought my set a few weeks ago and I find it simply doesn't track the picture shape as well as my previous (considerably cheaper) Philips 32 inch set that I was renting. It's just too difficult to keep it in auto-select (shape) mode.

    I find that it adopts auto mode (i.e. responds to different picture shapes as I surf the Sky channels) providing I am currently watching a 4:3 broadcast and then select the Digibox using the A/V button on the remote, but if I press "6" (I have assigned channel 6 to A/V 1, the Digibox), the shape is locked into what ever it was before I selected it (hope this makes sense).

    The result is infuriating, I seem to have to constantly fiddle with controls to get the desired result. The rest of the family are dumbfounded, but fortuately don't seem to mind watching tall thin people.

    I'm actually rather disappointed with this set. I read all the rave reviews and bought one on the strength of them, even though the Philips 36 inch looked better in the shop (serves me right!).

    It can give a superb picture, but is very harsh on sub-standard source material. For example, News 24 studio widescreen pictures can look great, but when they switch to an outside broadcast the picture looks washed-out (something like a poor VHS picture), and usually has a 1 inch wide strip on the right.

    Also, I find that it struggles to reproduce detail in dark scenes. I seem be contantly adjusting the contrast to try to see what's going on.
     
  9. T_Strife

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    Cant even do a simple task like that John with the Panasonic range...its the dreaded tv/av button followed by a channel button followed by tv/av again....
    I'm getting the Sony soon and wondered if you or anyone else could possibly answer these for me -
    1. If you were watching sky and then turned the tv off (leaving the digibox turned on), what would the tv display if you turned it back on again using the power button? (My Panny defaults to terrestial - bloody infuriating!)
    2. Can you turn the tv on by selecting a channel button, for example - button 6 (set to av1) and if so would it auto switch wide as you surfed the sky channels? (bearing in mind that the digibox was left on)
    3. I plan to loop the dvd rgb out thru my digibox so both will be on av1 (i think thats the sony rgb in). If i'm watching sky and then switch the dvd on will it override the digibox output and will the dvd switch wide? Then when i switch the dvd off will the digibox continue to switch wide as i surf?
    If the answer to all the above is yes then i will be a happy man :) My old Hitachi did all this and as a result was a pleasure to use. I never use terrestial as i'm on cable digital which has ITV (coming to sky this summer apparently) so the tv would be almost permanently on av1.
    TIA.
     
  10. Andy Price

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    I,ve had my 36inch Sony since the end of Jan
    and I to have discovered the same situation
    as you.I thought that this was a problem that
    I had but it seems to be a common occurance.
    I even emailed Sony but they could not come up with any answers.
    For the likes of us it does not pose to much of a problem,but for the rest of the family if it didn't auto detect they would watch what ever ratio it was in.
    Andy P.
     
  11. T_Strife

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    O.k you lot i'll answer my own questions as i've now received my fs70.

    1. Yes - Defaults to last input.
    2. Yes & Yes
    3. Yes & Yes
    Bloody marvellous!!
    Also i can switch between terrestial & digi-cable & it still corrects the aspect ratio.
    In fact no matter what i do...play a video (av3)....dvd(av1)...pc output(av2)...it ALWAYS switches to the correct aspect ratio!!
    So either the firmware's been recently updated or you berk's ;) haven't got to grips with the "Auto Format" & "Format Correction" options.
    My menu settings are as follows:-
    Setup/Av Preset...i have av1/2&3 set to "normal" under "Auto-Format" option.

    Features..."Auto Format" set to normal & "Format Correction" set to off.

    How can i find out the firmware level? Let me know and we'll see if sony have changed anything.
     
  12. dcw

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    My set definitely does not behave in the way you describe. I have the Auto-format set to Normal & Format Correction off (as you).

    In the service menu, the description reads:

    Service AE5(A), Oct 5 2000 V161E

    Not sure if that's the firmware version.

    Also, I notice the set is model no KV-36FS70. Someone said the true UK version should be KV-36FS70/U. I bought it from SDB who assure me that it is a UK model.

    It is connected via AV1 to a Sony Sky digibox (VTX-S750U)using a fully wired SCART in RGB mode (I've tried composite and it behaves the same way).

    If I switch the DigiBox off and back on using the remote all works well. The Set selects AV1 and the the picture adjusts to the correct shape as I surf the Sky channels.

    If I use the Sky button on the remote to select the Digibox the set does not autoselect AV1. I described earlier in this thread how it tends to stick in either 4:3 or Widescreen depending on how I manually select AV1.

    The same Digibox worked fine with my previous Philips set.

    I spent virtually an entire day trying to get some support from either Sony or SDB (round & round in circles :mad: ). Finally Sony promised they would get an Engineer to phone me next week.

    Dave.
     
  13. T_Strife

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    Sorry to hear that dcw, my service menu is also AE5(A) Oct 5 2000 V161E.
    I have e-mailed you some set-up info that General Skanky kindly sent me. If you have any setting queries just e-mail me and i will try to help.
    Mine is also official UK model and the only obvious differences between our set-ups is Sky-digital/Cable-digital - could it be they use different switching methods?
     
  14. dcw

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    Thanks for the mail John!

    I've been measuring the voltages on pin 8.

    Sky box standby 0.0 Volts
    Sky Box on (4:3 channel) 12.0 Volts
    Press TV button No change
    Press Sky (after TV) Drops to about 7 V
    Momentarily then back to 12 V
    Sky box on (Widescreen channel) 6.0V
    Press TV button No change
    Press Sky (after TV) Momentarily drops to about 5.4V then back to 6V

    The momentary drops could be lower, but too fast for my multimeter to track.

    I suspect that the momentary drops are too fast or too subtle for the TV to notice, hence at least part of my problem. Strange considering they're both Sony!
     

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