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Sony KV-28CS70 convergence problem?

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by bolio, Feb 10, 2005.

  1. bolio

    bolio
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    I'm using a KV-28CS70 for almost a month now. Overall I'm pretty pleased with the set except for a convergence problem: it seems that the red, green and blue gun are not properly alligned horizontally. Red is projected a few mm to the left of green and blue a few mm to the right. This problem does not only occur in a corner or on one side but the entire screen is affected.

    To make the problem more clear, I have taken some pictures of it which can be found here. After some research on the internet, I thought that maybe by adjusting the horizontal static control in the service menu I could allign the guns, but I can't find that specific item or the dynamic convergence submenu in my service menu.

    I was wondering whether other users have experienced similar errors or that my set is unique in this respect?

    Thanks in advance, Dennis.
     
  2. red16v

    red16v
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    Hi, if the convergence problem you've described is across the entire width of the screen (and is uniform across the width of the screen) then yes it does sound as though the static convergence requires adjusting. Usually (but not exclusively) this is an adjustment of a potentiometer inside the tv and not usually a menu adjustment. I'm not familiar with your particular model so can't say 100% that you won't find it in the service menu but I would be surprised (and delighted if it were). You CANNOT adjust this with any of the dynamic geometry/convergence adjustments that you will find in the service menu so please don't adjust them. If you have some skills in electronics and take the necessary safety precautions you could adjust the static cinvergence yourself but you must not attempt to get inside the rear of the tv set unless you are qualified and confident to do so - hope you don't mind me pointing that out, but as you probably know the inside of the tv has some lethal voltages inside and I would not like anyone to hurt themselves - or worse. Regards, yt.
     
  3. bolio

    bolio
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    Thanks for replying, TV's are just about the only equipment I don't dare to open :rolleyes: due to the lethal voltages inside. The pictures I showed you are from different parts of the screen:

    error on left side
    error in center part
    error on right side
    rest of the screens

    You seem like someone with more experience on TV-sets, :thumbsup: such a convergence error is it acceptable or is it not? I find it quite annoying when visible (only strong colours show the convergence error clearly), but the rest of the TV is just fine. Is Sony going to fix this or is it just me ending up with no telly for a couple of weeks and getting a message that it's within spec?
     
  4. Paul Cooksley

    Paul Cooksley
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    Bolio

    I have the CS70 and I am generally very impressed with it.

    I must admit - I have a touch of the scenario you have described, but looking at your pictures, your convergence looks a lot worse than mine. Therefore, I would think that it would have to be adjusted.

    You say you've been using your set for a month now... Did u buy it brand new? If so I would get someone up under the guarantee to sort it out.

    Paul
     
  5. bolio

    bolio
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    Thnx for replying Paul. I bought the TV brand new in January 2005 from a dealer in my city. The box was sealed and the working-hour counter in the servicemenu is correct (now at about 160 hrs).

    You mention that you recognise my problem but that your set is not as bad as mine. An easy way to see the convergence errors on my set when no RGB signal is available, are the green OSD messages. When these are shown on top of a light background color (white, yellow, orange), the green OSD text looks bordered but then in a very ugly and incomplete fashion at my set. The 1 year old Sony 25" 4:3 tele downstairs has a clean unbordered OSD. And no convergence problems. How is this on your set?

    When comparing DVD-playback quality thru RGB SCART with the 4:3 downstairs, I'm beginning to suspect that I loose much detail due to the convergence error, am I paranoid or can this be the case?
     
  6. Paul Cooksley

    Paul Cooksley
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    Bolio

    Hi again mate..

    Yeah, I can appreciate what you are saying, as, the green OSD text looks *a little* like you describe, but perhaps not as bad as you describe (if that makes sense).

    Looking again at your photo's - to me this would be un-acceptable, as based upon studying my set just now for you, I don't notice the same degree of convergence - yes - there is a little - as I mentioned earlier - but not as much.

    Personally, if it were me, I would get in touch with the shop you bought the set from and ask them to come up and have a look (obviously it's under a years guarantee).

    Widescreen CRT's can be prone to this (more so, I think than a recent 21 or 25/28" 4:3) as I notice a "cleaner" picture when using a 4:3 set - but there again, I am extremely picky !!!

    As I say, I would call them up and firstly ask their advice and then get them to come up.

    Paul
     
  7. red16v

    red16v
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    Hi, if its a simple potentiometer adjustment inside the tv set then any engineer who came to look at it would sort it out in 30 seconds flat after taking the back off. As Paul has suggested I agree you should contact the shop you bought it from and invite them to send along an engineer to perform this fine adjustment. It is not a fault - it is a simple adjustment that for some reason on your set needs to be re-tweeked. Let us know how you get on. Regards, yt.
     
  8. bolio

    bolio
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    Paul: thanks for checking it on your set, I really appreciate your effort!
    red16v: thanks for sharing your knowledge!

    I went to my dealer today and they will contact me next week for an appointment to dispatch an engineer. Here in the Netherlands normally only the 32" models are fixed on-site, but they will dispatch an engineer anyway :clap: I'm glad now that I bought the set at a local dealer and not an internet-shop. I’ll keep you updated! :)

    Dennis.
     
  9. Chris Hedlund

    Chris Hedlund
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    Hi
    In case you hadn't realised the best way to look for convergence problems is to turn off the colour completely, and look at the picture in black and white. Normally pretty revealing :smashin:
     
  10. bolio

    bolio
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    Well, this morning the technician came to adjust my set. When I showed him my problem, he agreed that it should be fixed. Then he opened the set and adjusted some of the rings on the CRT neck but he could not adjust it to a correct setting :( When he did not see any improvement he said that it was probably within Sony's spec and closed. Result: set not repaired and I'm dissapointed :nono:
     
  11. Chris Hedlund

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    Probably within Sony Spec is not good enough. Go back to the dealer and insist if the set can't be repaired on site then you would like it returned for repair or replaced with a good set. Dont give up, thats what they expect most people to do.
    Cheers Chris
     
  12. bolio

    bolio
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    Thanks for your support :) what I find rather strange is that when i demo'ed the problem the technician was like: "Ow yeah i see the abnormaly, I'm going to open the set to adjust it!". But when he couldn't get the it right it suddenly was within spec. I must say that the technician did not look like he had much experience with adjusting a CRT. I've already mailed my dealer and am waiting for response.
     
  13. mrtbag

    mrtbag
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    If you do not get a good service, phone Sony direct on 20-658-1888 (I am unsure of what you dial code wise). They should be able to put you in contact with an engineer who 'knows what he's doing'.
     
  14. bolio

    bolio
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    I live in the Netherlands, getting in touch with Sony here really is difficult if not impossible. Philips have their own customer support centre for example but Sony not. They tell you to go to your dealer.
     
  15. Paul Cooksley

    Paul Cooksley
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    Bolio

    You really must try and fight this one. I am no technician for sure, but looking at your pictures (as I mentioned earlier in this thread) the convergence looks incorrect. The fact that the engineer also thought this the moment he saw the problem also points to the fact that it is in fact "not" within specs.

    What you should do is go back to whoever sold this to you and take it up with them. Ask for a written explanation of what is "within specs" from Sony- demand this - they won't be able to provide it of course - but it just gives you more bargaining power.

    The fact that the engineer could not/did not fix it is neither here nor there. The fact is that this looks unacceptable. You should point out to the dealer/shop that the engineer immediately looked wrong and should be corrected.

    Obviously, I understand you are in the Netherlands and therefore I don't know what type of shop (ie big chain or small dealer) that you bought the set from. I have had experience of fighting something similar (not exactly the same thing - I am talking about "dirty screen" issues) with a retailer here called Curry's - who are one of the biggest electrical retailers in this country. They are an absolute joke - their customer service is awful and they have a reputation for being very poor on after service. The reason I am telling you this, is that if you persist - like I did - you should win the case for a new set.

    Let me know how it goes - but don't let it drop without a fight.

    Good Luck

    Paul
     
  16. red16v

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    I am disappointed to read that the engineer was unable to adjust your set. On some sets the static convergence is indeed adjusted by using ring magnets on the neck of the crt (and on others by the kind of adjustment I referred to in my earlier post) I am not familiar with your make of set and so cannot give a definitive answer. However, I am very familiar with crt televisions. From your description and the pictures you've shown us there is no doubt that your tv set is misconverged.

    Under no circumstances would a domestic tv set be 'within tolerance' if the viewer can see a misconvergence problem at 'normal' viewing distances.

    You must insist that the retailer either corrects the problem to YOUR satisfaction, or, supplies you with a replacement, or, gives you your money back. I see you are based in Europe and most likely the local consumer laws in your country will be different to those here in the UK. Nonetheless, you deserve better and you must insist on it. Do keep us informed. Regards, yt.
     
  17. bolio

    bolio
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    Update:

    I went to the dealer today. When I told my story the dealer suggested to test the TV in the showroom. I went home and fetched my PS2 and some games. To my big surprise the TV in the showroom exhibited the same problem. Though not in such a great degree as my own set but it was still good noticeable.

    The dealer was very symphatatic and offered to swap my set for another make / model (I can stretch my budget 100 euro's so the set price is max €699,-). For 699 I can get both the JVC HV-28P37S (discounted greatly) or the AV-28X4S. I played some PS2 on the HV-28P37S and although the picture is different (more processed) then the Sony, the convergence seems fine. Also the HV-28P37S has a progressive component input so I can connect my Philips 963SA thru component.

    My question to you: Does anyone has experiences with the HV-28P37S? I read horror-stories that sound and picture are not synchronized and horizontal stripes on the sides of the screen. Also, isn't the picture do digital? Maybe you guys have tips for other models or brands?

    Regards, Dennis.

    PS: red16v and PaulCooksley thnx for the support :)
     

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