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Sony KLV-32M1 HD or Not?

Discussion in 'LCD & LED LCD TVs' started by neilmcl, Jan 26, 2005.

  1. neilmcl

    neilmcl
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    I saw the Sony KLV-32M1 today and was very impressed. Exceptional pq both on analogue and digital feeds. However, every retailer I've seen and all the magazine reviews have stated that this is a High-Def enabled TV, the What Plasma & LCD review even said it has a HDMI interface. Can anyone, particularly existing 32M1 owners, give a definitive answer as to whether this LCD can accept HD TV signals in the future especially from Sky.

    My suspicions are that they can't.
     
  2. jgrg

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    I don't think it can. The same model in the US does have HDMI, but the UK/EU model doesn't, so it won't be compatible with Sky HDTV services.

    James
     
  3. jimg

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    It needs DVI with HDCP or HDMI, but from previous threads I think it all the Sony sets are distinctly lacking! The set may be capable of displaying a Hi-def picture but you need a compatible source and for SKY this is HDMI. :rolleyes:
     
  4. neilmcl

    neilmcl
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    What's defined as a HD compatible source, I know of DVI and HDMI but can component video be classed as such. And even so, if this is the case it's largely irrelevent as the only way you'll be able to recieve a future HD broadcast in the UK will be via Sky and their HDCP compliant DVI/HDMI inputs. This is all very confusing and I think Sony should come clean about this issue. I don't see how they can market the TV in th UK as being able to receive HDTV if they know full well this won't be the case.

    Do you reckon they might realise they've dropped the ball here and start shipping the display wth an HDMI input like the US models.
     
  5. pryce3

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    At present none of sony's flat panel range will be HDTV ready i.e Sky HDTV compatible, although i think some of their range can accept 720p over component but for one im not even sure of this and two component is analogue and non HDCP compliant
     
  6. jimsan

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    Sony are not alone here. Panasonic, and I dare say a few others, are casually advertising their TV as being High Definition panels. They'll claim, of course, that this is indeed true as their TV's will be able to carry HD over component connections......THIS IS NOT HIGH DEFINITION TV!

    I think it amazing that Sony, and others, are doing this. I nearly got tripped up by this early in my LCD purchasing quest. Salesmen telling me that 'Oh Yes, its a HiDef set mate...' It took me a while to decypher all this, so that I could be in a position to reply.... Oh, no it's not, mate!'

    There will be more and more compatible sets coming on the market and I for one will cheer the first time a mainstream set actually comes with an HDMI socket! (or 2 or 3)...And a DVI and component....

    Jimmy
     
  7. neilmcl

    neilmcl
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    I've sent an email to Sony UK querying their marketing of this model as high definition. Can't wait for their reply. As they already sell the same display with HDMI albeit for the US market I can't see it being a big step for them to introduce this to the UK. I wonder also if they could retrofit the HDMI connectivity to existing UK models maybe as part of a recall.

    It's a shame really because out of all the LCDs I've seen so far the Sony had the most natural and clean image of them all even with just an analogue signal.
     
  8. scrapbook

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    Hmmmm not sure that is right actually.

    Someone will correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't HDMI/DVI just a digital connection that allows certain hidef resolutions to be displayed without having to convert the signal from analogue back to digital as you would with component inputs.

    Of course the fact that you will need an hdmi/dvi connection to watch hidef sky is a different matter.
     
  9. neilmcl

    neilmcl
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    The European Industry forum (EICTA) recently announced their conditions for a set to be labelled of High Definition ready. This included the condition that "The display device accepts HD input via: Analogue YPbPr1; and DVI or HDMI" and "The DVI or HDMI input supports content protection (HDCP)."

    Go to the following link for the full details:

    http://www.homecinemachoice.com/cgi-bin/shownews.php?id=7396
     
  10. jimsan

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    The crucial bit, to me, is the HDCP enabling. If a TV isn't equipped with either an HDMI or DVI input that is HDCP ready then it IS NOT A HIGH DEFINITION TV! It may be a High Definition Monitor but not a TV.

    I know this sounds picky, but the rules of HiDef engagement are getting quite clear now and too many sets claim to be in the game when they quite clearly aren't.

    Jimmy
     
  11. neilmcl

    neilmcl
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    Totally agree with you Jimmy, thats why I believe it's grossly misleading for Sony and subsequently the retailers to market this and other similar models as being HDTV ready.

    Given the recent EICTA announcement I wonder how long Sony can afford to stay out of the game as you put it. I think they've been guilty of sitting on the fence to see which way HD in Europe is going to go and it wouldn't surprise me if they don't start rushing out models with HDMI/DVI connectivity now that a decision has been made, which will really p*^! off existing owners.
     
  12. scrapbook

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    The European standard has only just been released - when this TV was first released it could be classed as HDTV.

    I believe that Sky changed teh goal posts on HDTV and that originally they had indicated to Sony, amongst others, that HDMI wouldn't be required.

    How do you receive HI Def TV distributed over the astra satellites?
     
  13. neilmcl

    neilmcl
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    The only think Sky couldn't decide upon was to which connection they would use (HDMI or DVI) and what standard of encryption to use in their case HDCP. As far as I'm aware the only way you can currently receive HD TV transmissions both in Europe and the US is via an HDMI/DVI input and as Sony already produce this model with HDMI connectivity in the US they should have foreseen this.
     
  14. bizarrefish

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    I think HD representation needs a lot more clarification in everyone's marketing information. HD compatible can mean so many different things. They are saying HD due to the facts that it can display High Resolution imagery all the way to 1080i which is true even though its downscaled. But in essence most HD signals are going to be connected via a protective conduit which is HDCP compliant. Some sets support this others dont, I know there's steps to make an industry standard logo with such a definition but there is nothing at the moment. I myself like the Sony's but I will wait until they release one that is HDMI / HDCP compliant. I believe we are looking at around May 2005 for these to be released in the UK.

    Richard
     
  15. ianh64

    ianh64
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    HDCP only makes a difference if the source is copy protected. For non CP material, good old component is fine and so is DVI without HDCP. However, since the studios largly govern the copy policy of their material, the studios have mandated that HDCP is their accepted methed of protecting their material. Its not Sky's decision that has pushed this. HDCP was designed as the DRM system for DVI as much as 5 years ago. HDMI has been around for over 18 months and in gestation for much longer. Many of the manufacturers have been part of the body that defined HDMI as a standard. So the manufacturers have known for a very long time, at least the past two display generations, that HDCP will at some point in the next 4-5 years become a mandatory requirement for HD viewing and HDMI would likely become the interface standard. You can draw your on conclusions on whether you think the marketing people have been pulling the wool over our eyes in the hope of getting another sale from someone needing to upgrade.
     
  16. jimg

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    Dead right, Sony are not a tiny company and must have made a deliberate decision NOT to provide a HDCP input in the UK. Shame on them! :blush: :blush: :blush:
     
  17. pryce3

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    These companys work to maximise profits, think about it if you buy an lcd thats not HDTV compliant coz you dont really know what it actually means, like most people, you'll buy the tv. then in a couple of years you'll realise you want HDTV and buy another one so the mnanufacturers win as you buy more tvs. This is probably part of Sony's stratergy and i have to say its quite clever, even if it doesn't put the consumer first.
     
  18. neilmcl

    neilmcl
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    Went back to the shop today to ask why they're advertising this set as HDTV ready and the so-called "Sony" expert tried to insist that it could recieve the HD signal from Sky via component inputs. He even went to the trouble of showing me one of the new PACE Satellite Decoders on the PACE website that stated that the HD signal can be output via component. However, I pointed out the sentence below which stated the it was the DVI port which would carry the HDCP encrypted signal.

    Unfortunately he just wouldn't be convinced.
     
  19. jimg

    jimg
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    Indeed, the "Sony" expert is confusing what is possible with what is actually going to happen. No-one is saying that it is impossible to send a HDTV picuture over component, what SKY are saying is that they will not be using component but HDMI! This is being led by the material producers not SKY.
     
  20. ianh64

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    I would wonder what would happen if you bought a Sony with the Hi Def TV ready sticker on it then in a year or so, took it back for a full refund when it does not do what is said on the box. Unfortunately I would think that they would use the getout clause that it is a 'future promise' and this is not covered by the trade descriptions act.
     
  21. jgrg

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  22. scrapbook

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    Exactly...so the TV is hi-def capable, just not compatible with the method that sky are choosing to broadcast.

    This is Sony's get out clause
     
  23. ianh64

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    It is not Sky's choice. It is the studios choice. Which is why the display will be totally useless for watching copy protected HD material from hd-dvd/blu-ray too. Strangley, Sony's blu ray format specified HDCP for exactly that reason, something totally lost on their UK marketeering department who omitted if from there current range of displays when equivalent overseas models have the feature.

    -Ian
     
  24. CLH

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    Whether Sony missed the boat is sort of irrelevant.

    What is telling is that they (and their retailers) continue to claim NOW that this TV will do HD.

    IMO they should be at least honest about it.
     
  25. scrapbook

    scrapbook
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    Well you can get hidef tv from the astra satellite through component inputs
     
  26. bizarrefish

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    I think the argument about whether they are HD or not can be argued from both sides. I remember the arguments in the '90's that a 17" monitor measured just over 15" in diagonal yet the tube itself was 17" but hidden by the bezel... As long as individuals that buy them are clued up enough to make an educated decision that is what counts and resources like this forum help to educate. Unfortunately its a commercial world out there and if people want to spend the best part of 2-3000 on a TV without really reading up on the technology instead of relying on the 'salesmen' it is down to them.

    Richard
     
  27. jimg

    jimg
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    Scrapbook,
    Are they broadcasting anything worth watching, the point is the studios will be forcing HDCP on their new material.
     
  28. scrapbook

    scrapbook
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    Not really!:rotfl:

    The issue raised in this post seems to revolve around whether Sony are wrong in advertising this TV as HD capable..personally I have no Sony gear and am not a great fan of theres, but ultimately this is a high definition capable panel.....or so Sony will argue.

    There are potentially various other Manufacturers that you could have the same debate with..Pansonic, JVC etc etc. For some reasons manufactures appear to be have been caught by surprise by Sky's announcement, which is particulary strange when you look at the HDCP position in the US.

    In hindsight it appears almost inevitable that sky would have to go down this route so it seems strange there there are reasonably few tv's out there with the required connections...Toshiba have one TV and other major manufacturers like JVC and Panasonic have none :eek: I am just glad I am not an early adopter of this technology.

    The best course of action seems to be to sit on your hands for 6 months if you are looking for a new TV.

    It is still possible that Sky may broadcast some material that is not HDCP and the actual take up ratio of HDTV is debatable at the mo...current picture quality is perfectly adequate for probably 95% of the population just as CD quality is adequate in comparison with DVD Audio/SACD
     
  29. jimsan

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    No need to 'sit on your hands' at all!

    It is fairly clear what Sky are going to do and there are plenty 'proper' HDTV's available now. Just check the HDTV thread which lists them. My Philips 32PF9986 is fully ready to go!

    Sharp, Thomson, Toshiba, Philips etc are all in the game and ready to play!

    Bring it on....

    Jimmy
     
  30. scrapbook

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    Well your right..they are around...but i'm going to be sitting on my bum for 6 months. In theory as the product develops over the next few we should be getting much better value for money as technology and standards settle down.

    Always difficult to judge the best time to buy as there is something better always around the corner, but it would be nice to connect my hd dvd, my cable box and my xbox2 to 3 hdmi connections at the back of the tv!
     

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