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Sony HD5

Discussion in 'Headphones, Earphones & Portable Music' started by dups45, Aug 4, 2005.

  1. dups45

    dups45
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    Can i use the sony nw hd5 as an external hard drive sort of thing so that i can back my music collection up, over the past year my hard drive has decided to break on me alot and i want to know if i purchase this sony will i be able to load the music from the player onto my pc?!!?!

    sorry you have probably been asked this loads, but this is the only thing that is stoppig me from buying this player, everything else seems great about it!
     
  2. jack190

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    You can but the sony wont be able to play the music.
    The HD5 can act as a removable hard drive and carry all sort of stuff but for the HD5 to play the music each song is encapsulated in the sony music format.

    If you want a player that can hold and play the music i think the iriver might be the best choice.
     
  3. JB5

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    In the past the Digital Rights Management (DRM) component of sonicstage (SS) would not allow the transfer of HD5 music files back onto a PC that did not did not put them onto the HD5 originally. (This includes a reformatted pc etc.. which SS "sees" as a different pc)

    If however, the backup tool (issued with SS) was used and a separate copy of the PC music database (DB) was kept then the music DB could be retrieved as long as an internet connection was available.

    With SS3.2, the newest version of the software, the DRM can be switched off for tracks imported from CD's. (maybe mp3 as well?).

    The official UK launch of SS3.2 hasn't appeared on Sony UK's site yet, though I guess that it is imminent. The HD5 will be bundled with SS3.1 and the SS upgrade will probably only available through an online connection.

    Hope that helps.
     
  4. dups45

    dups45
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    so i could have my 7gig of music on the player and be able to listen to it, and then have 7 gig put on it aswell which i will be able to transfer back, but i wont be able to listen to that?
     
  5. JB5

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    Are you saying that you would use the HD5 as the repository for the backup file?

    Never tried that personally, but I suppose it could / should? work. Certainly a bunch of MP3's could be put on the player with the SS "wrapper" on to allow them to be played on the HD5 and they could also be put on as a separate folder, which as you point out wouldn't be playable.

    SS3.2 looks like it would eliminate this problem entirely though.
     
  6. shadowritten

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    There's no reason why you can't do this - so long as you put the 'loose' music files into a folder. Yesterday, I tried dropping some .oma files straight onto the root drive and when I got home, these had mysteriously disappeared. Perhaps I should've used a folder?

    Also, see http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232209 for more on how easy SS 3.2 makes life when you rip tracks without DRM.
     
  7. Sasso

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    Thats exactly right. If you want to back up the music to transfer to another PC or for backup purposes then you can transfer them to the HD5 but those will not be able to be played unless you add them using SonicStage. So you'll have to double up.

    When you get the player download SonicStage 3.2 so when you rip the songs you can turn off copy protection. This way you can back them up also to avoid having to re-rip the songs again. With SS3.1 and below any files you rip from a CD are deemed useless on any other PC, they can't be played by the other PC or transfered to a player.

    Very unfortunately SonicStage 3.2 still does not allow you to transfer music OFF the player to any other PC (and in some instances even to the original). If you can convince sony to allow that then you wont have to double up and you'll be much happier. In fact they will sell a load more players, but thats their problem. This by the way is only what I have experienced and tested. It is possible that i am wrong but I am convinced it doesn't work.
     
  8. shadowritten

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    I never understand why you'd want to transfer OFF the player TO a PC anyhow? Keep the original files stored - on a hard drive, a CD or whatever - and just reimport them whenever you want to if space is an issue on your computer. And if you don't want the tracks on the player any longer, simply delete them.

    Personally, I'd never risk transferring everything I'd ripped to ANY player and then delete the originals. Just doesn't make sense - especially now external USB 2.0 hard drives are getting so ridiculously cheap (I got a 120GB ext. drive for under £80!).
     
  9. Sasso

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    Yeah thats the problem, dups45 hard drive keeps crashing on him so its unsafe to save the music there, 7 gigs of songs takes up a lot of CDs, not to mension how annoying it would be to keep updating the CD and not being able to rename the songs or delete them. Instead of that or getting a dedicated external HDD, he wants to use the HD5, which just happens to be one. But since he can't transfer off the player he must now 'double up' and transfer the song files as well as the same songs that SS transfers.
    I certainly wish I could backup my songs by transfering the songs ONCE to the player and be able to take them off again.....its just stupid on Sony's behalf and for that matter many other brands except creative, good on em. Someone may say, "It could be for illegal purposes" but then again it could Not, like in this case. They should give the user the freedom of doing what they want, and with that the responsibility. Instead they kill the good for the sake of preventing evil.
     
  10. dingburp

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    that's silly. why would we need to buy another hard drive to move music files that are ALREADY on a hard drive? that's one of my major gripes about the HD5. so basically in order for me to transfer my music files from my home computer to my work computer, i'd have to either buy another hard drive or sit at home burning loads of cd's. in the end, not a bad idea to have a backup cd collection, but dang, i could do that at work when i'm getting paid....and i can't do that because the HD5 won't let me transfer from pc to pc. what a sick joke sony has got going.
     
  11. Sasso

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    Yeah basically what i was saying, but dont forget its not just sony, they pretty much all do that. Im pretty sure creative just have a folder you can access from media player...if not then they're all a joke.
     
  12. shadowritten

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    Sasso, understand dups45's predicament entirely - was making a more generalised point about transferring tracks off of players. And yes, not everyone has the luxury of an ext HDD, but there's always the option of burning to DVD RW for those who have the equipment (which so many modern PCs seem to these days - and I don't, bummer!!). :mad:

    Oh, and for the record, when you transfer back off the Creative Zen Touch, it names all the files by their ID3 Title tag as they return to the PC, which then means that if you want to transfer them to the PLAYER again, you have to rename any duplicates! It's really only half a solution. :thumbsdow
     
  13. JB5

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    Is that right? I've misunderstood this DRM SS3.2 issue. I thought that with DRM off, the HD5 music became PC independent? Does this mean that it's only the SS DB that becomes PC independent?

    The whole issue of transferring music OFF the player, for me, was to cover my back in case my PC went belly up with no backup in place (Again)!

    So I guess I still need a separate copy of my database then.
     
  14. Sasso

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    Shadow, yeah I knew it was general, and good ideas. But I was just saying for dups45 situation that probably wont help. Hey may not have a DVD burner either, and guessing from his HDD problems its prob not a new computer. Im in the same situation except my HDD is new and works.

    JB5, yes thats right. I tried it just then. I ripped a cd without copy protection. Transferred it to the player. Went to my other PC (also with SS3.2) and tried to transfer that track to the library. NO GAME....has the same message as usual. "song originated from another computer"
     
  15. shadowritten

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    Let's go back to the experiment Sasso and I ran yesterday. He ripped a DRM-free track on his PC in Oz using SS 3.2, mailed it around the planet to me, I put it on my HD5 and it played, no worries. But of course, it then had the 'wrapper' on it that occurs when you transfer to the player in the normal way through SS. So, as long as your ORIGINAL files aren't transferred to the player using SS, you CAN do what you like with them - which makes the earlier suggestion of having a folder with, shall we say, 'wrapper-free' duplicates on the HD5 such a neat idea (for those who don't need all their player's capacity, of course!).

    My point was simply that I wouldn't do as some do and transfer to my player then DELETE THE ORIGINAL FILES from my PC, for whatever reason. I back 'em up elsewhere - and so if I want 'em at work, I just take in my spare drive and dump the lot on the office PC. Problem solved, because the tracks are DRM-free. And of course, the same principle will work if these 'wrapper-free' files are in a separate folder on the HD5: you can whip them off the player and onto any PC you like, and they'll import to SS without any hassle.

    Make more sense now?
     
  16. JB5

    JB5
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    Hmmm. SS3.2 is not quite the panacea I thought it might be. Cheers for the info, definitely worth knowing.
     
  17. Sasso

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    Yep its exactly as Shadowitten said.

    Its all great but personally I'd rather be able to take the songs off the player on any pc i wanted to. (with sonicstage)...if this was possible it means that you can use aup all of the players 20 gig, instead of 10gig for playable songs and 10 gig for backup. And all you need is the player, whereever you go, rather than bringing another form of storage, which the player should be able to do itself.

    Ah well, the possibilities of what a HDD player could and should be able to do.........
     
  18. shadowritten

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    By jingo, he's got it! ;) Exactly, Sasso (I've updated my last post btw, to make it even clearer).
     
  19. Sasso

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    Is there any way of formatting the HD5 from SS3.2, maybe if you do that it might be possible. Highly doubt it though.
    And also im expecting a firmware update as soon as SS3.2 is officially released. Including the compat with the new bitrates, the pause button eventually turning off the player problem fixed, the memory of what tracks have been played kept even when turned off, the ability to search for Artist, Albums and Genres, the Auto off to be adjustable, the backlight not to come on when you press a button with HOLD on, bookmarkable albums and artist on the fly (doubt it), the VBR mp3 fast forward problem fixed (highly doubt it), the ability to shuffle tracks in an album then once played all tracks shuffles to another album in the unit and repeat the process (most certainly doubt, that they even got my email), hmmmmmm............the list goes on.................
    If the majority of that list is checked in the next firmware or two i would be happy chap. :)

    going to bed now. G'dnite
     
  20. lockers

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    I just had an idea that I'm curious about regarding the whole idea of two copies of your music on the player, which feel free to comment on...(!)

    In SS I believe you can specify the location where the library is stored, and from memory (not on my SS machine atm) the default is something like the \\Documents and Settings\All users\ etc

    What would happen if you changed the library location path from within SS to a folder on your HDx using it as an external hard drive. Ripping CDs would go onto the HDx but obviously not in playable form. Then 'transfer' the tracks from the 'library' onto the HDx so that they become playable, ie it copies the track into the required format for playback. Any idea what would happen?!

    Obviously that way you would halve the available disk space for music you can listen to 'on the go' which is far from ideal.

    Then to expand the idea a little further, you could have another copy of SS on your PC at work, again with SS having the alternative 'library' location path of the HDx itself. So could you then buy a CD at lunch and then rip it and transfer it, so you could listen to it on your way home.

    I know this is a little crazy this whole idea, and I'm not even sure why on earth you'd want to do it. But as I've written it now, I thought I might as well post it! :)
     
  21. Hrochnick

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    You were ripped off! I got a 250gb external drive for under a hundred quid. Sorry, completely off topic but I couldn't resist...
     
  22. shadowritten

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    Can't see why it wouldn't work. Would probably be VERY slow going, though: SS bloatware vs lots of work for the HD5's read/write arm!
     
  23. shadowritten

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    Want to point out this was a while ago now, rather than recently. Otherwise, yes, I'd agree it WAS a rip-off! :D
     
  24. dups45

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    so are you suggesting that with the new sonic stage software, if i turn off some option, i may only need one copy of the music on the player, rather than the two copies, so that...if my hard drive goes bellys up again, i will be able to transfer the music back when i get a new one?

    or...will i still need to make two copeis....or cant i do either?!?!?

    i dont mind having two copies, as i cant ever see myself having more than 1- gig of music...so i will be able to store two lots without a problem

    once i have got this hitch cleared up, and i get paid, im ordering :) dont know where from though yet, maybe dabs, dixons or amazon, depending who is the cheapest

    thanks for your help :thumbsup:
     
  25. dups45

    dups45
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    my mum and dad bought our computer for my christmas presnt in 2003, they bought it from a company called MESH for £1100

    It has an AMD 3000+ processor
    120GB 5400 rpm HD
    512 DDR Ram

    etc etc

    however, about a year after we had bought it we started to get some problems with the hard drive, it made noises, sometimes wouldnt start, would regularly crash on us and then...sometimes the computer wouldnt even start

    well it would but then it would come to a screen with a countdown timer and freeze...we rang them up and they gave us a procedure to follow which wiped and partioned the hard drive...so we lost everything, luckily we managed to save my coursework and the family photos, but that was it, we lost all our music and everything else

    this then happend a further six times, each time they told us to repartion, wipe the hard drive, and if anything happened ring them up and they said they would replace the hard drive, only on the sixth time did the actually replace it

    as a good will gesture they replaced it with a 150GB 7200 rpm hard drive, but as you can see, i am still worried something might happen, hence why i want to know if the nw HD5 will be able to hold my music
     
  26. lockers

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    I'm glad to hear the idea wasn't totally ridiculous, just very close to it!

    You're right about the read/write arm though, it would be an impressive workout!
     
  27. Sasso

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    Yeha it will probably work, but slowly. But this doesn't help Dups problem at all as you would have to copy the music twice still.
     
  28. JB5

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    If your PC HDD goes belly up you will not be able to transfer the music files that are playable on the HD5 back onto your PC's SS database.

    You could however have 2 copies of your DB on the HD5. One would be loaded through SS and be playable, the second would be in a separate folder, the "raw" files transferred through explorer for example. i.e. Using the HD5 as a removable hard-drive and drag 'n' drop into a dups45 music folder for instance. (Shadowritten has indicated that dropping SS files into the root folder on the HD5 is not a good idea so create a separate folder.)

    NB this will only work with SS3.2 with the DRM option set to off.

    This may not be the fastest solution, and would halve the effective capacity of the HD5, but if the DB is only 1gig in size then with the above caveats it would work from what I understand.

    Hope this helps.
     
  29. shadowritten

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    Bravo! Couldn't have put it any more concisely! :clap:
     
  30. dups45

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    Right i get it now! Im ordering it as soon as i get paid by sainsburys...should be next week!!! Cant wait, im not really botherd about the buttons cracking to be honest, considering getting the 30 gig model now thouth :cool:
     

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