Sony HAR-D1000

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi Stereo Systems & Separates' started by RichardJ, Mar 3, 2003.

  1. RichardJ

    RichardJ
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2003
    Messages:
    133
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Shropshire
    Ratings:
    +6
    Anyone looking for a hard disc based hifi component should give this piece of kit a look.

    Looks, user interface and importantly, sound are all, in my opinion very good and I can look forward to soon putting my racks and racks of CD's out of the way and just use the Sony.

    It store is ATRAC format, the same as minidisc and can store around 550 albums including full track/artist details.:D
     
  2. alexs2

    alexs2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,957
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,671
    If it stores tracks in ATRAC format,I'd hesitate to call it HiFi,but as a relatively cheap archival system,not a bad idea.

    ATRAC is a compression system which invariably leads to a somewhat poorer sound quality on playback.....better than MP3,but still subject to data loss.

    Another option for archival,operating at original data density rather than some compressed,data loss level such as ATRAC is a proper HTPC solution,which will also work for DVD archival,and offers immense flexibility in data input/output and video options....have a look at www.uvem.com I'm about to order one of their machines shortly for CD/DVD archival and playback.
     
  3. funkster

    funkster
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I've been looking at this Sony system, Richard - this is the type of thing I'm looking for - but can it record audio directly onto the hard drive from radio or audio on a sky box? Or only from cd's or a PC?
     
  4. mjn

    mjn
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2001
    Messages:
    22,256
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Herts, England
    Ratings:
    +10,106
    You'd be better off with the Yamaha CDR1300. Bigger HDD (80gb), and its upgradeable. It uses no compression, uses 192khz/24bit DAC, comes with CDR drive, and has digital ins/outs of both types.

    And its cheaper, only downside, trying to get hold of one!!

    Been trying for months!
     
  5. funkster

    funkster
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    mjn - I thought this unit was a lot more expensive?? Clearly it's the better system, but where have you seen it so cheap?

    How come you're nnot able to get hold of one? Are they not manufacturing them at the moment?

    I'm very interested in one - please give me as much information as you can!
     
  6. mjn

    mjn
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2001
    Messages:
    22,256
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Herts, England
    Ratings:
    +10,106
    the yamaha can record from analogue/digital inputs directly to the HDD, and can be edited.

    The RRP is £600, but can be had for £436 at www.unbeatable.co.uk , but its a special order item, which means you get it, when/if they ever get stock.

    They're selling so fast, no dealer can keep stock.
     
  7. funkster

    funkster
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thanks mjn, I'll check that out...
     
  8. funkster

    funkster
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Just looking at the CDR-HD1300 system on the yamaha web site, and it says that the 80Gb hard drive holds about 120 hours of music - this doesn't sound like much - I've got 9Gb of music and I'd say there's about 120 hours there... Is it because of the compression? Some thing to do with the file type/size? Can I still transfer mp3's from my computer onto this thing - if so, I'd get 120 days worth of music on there, surely?
     
  9. mjn

    mjn
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2001
    Messages:
    22,256
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Herts, England
    Ratings:
    +10,106
    The yamaha uses no compression, if you wish to transfer the MP3's you have, then you'd have to convert them to CDA first.

    The average Cd is 650mb, so using a 80gb HDD, thrn you'd get about 120 hours, or 120 CD's approx. Thats still quite a lot.

    I doubt whether there is 120 Cd's out there worth buying!!
     
  10. funkster

    funkster
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Yeh, but I'd be using the system for storing tracks I'd downloaded from p2p programs, and they are all MP3's - I've got thousands of them!

    Hoiw big are these CDA files, and is it an hard/lengthy process converting them?

    Why does the system not support MP3 I wonder?
     
  11. warrj

    warrj
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    The Yamaha uses no compression? That's pretty weak. Surely there's no reason why they couldn't have used a lossless algorithm.

    BTW can the hard disk be 'upgraded' by the user?

    Regards,

    Jules.
     
  12. funkster

    funkster
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Warrj - Do you know of any Hard Disc players that have the facility to play MP3's?
     
  13. warrj

    warrj
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    funkster - afraid not, I'm not a big fan of the use of MP3 in hi-fi systems. I'm probably going to hold fire on the HD recorder thing until one is released which:

    a) can hold all my CDs (circa 800)
    b) uses either no compression or a lossless algorithm
    c) has a 'decent' DAC (e.g. comparable to the one in my Arcam CD23)
    d) is easily upgradeable (i.e. more capacity can be added without re-ripping everything).

    Regards,

    Jules.
     
  14. funkster

    funkster
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Jules,

    Do you think the Sony system that this topic was initially about >> http://products.sony.co.uk/pro_runp...ive+Recorders&Ire=&CatID=3&sProdName=HARD1000 will be able to play MP3's?

    Do you think I'd be able to plug it into the Sky box and encode the digital radio stream as an MP3? And then be able to take this Sony system upstairs and transfer it to my PC if I wanted to, so I could burn it to a cd?

    If I'm able to do all this, and the display on the system is good and enables me to have folders and sub folders for my music - then I may be intereste din it - I don't need it to be quite as high tech as the one you need!

    Reason I'm asking you Jules, is cause Sony don't sem to have an email address I can speak to them on...

    Thanks in advance for your help..
     
  15. warrj

    warrj
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    funkster - Not absolutely sure however I believe that it's ATRAC only.

    It may be worth your while waiting a few months. Apple have a very cool technology called Rendezvous (based on the Zeroconf standard) which when combined with Wi-Fi allows you to broadcast music around the house. You can already do this between Macs (e.g. wirelessly share your MP3s via the iTunes jukebox between different Macs). Philips have announced that they are working on Rendezvous-enabled hi-fi components.

    Regards,

    Jules.
     
  16. funkster

    funkster
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    How does that work then? I'd obviously need a piece of kit or a PC in the said room to play music in there?
     
  17. mjn

    mjn
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2001
    Messages:
    22,256
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Herts, England
    Ratings:
    +10,106
    why is it "weak" that the unit has no compression??

    And yeah, the HDD can be upgraded by the user, as long as you don't mind voiding your warranty, you are handy with IDE HDD's. They even provide a format utility in the setup menu!!

    And Warrj.......it uses 192khz/24bit DAC, but as it has digital outputs, you can always use an external DAC.
     
  18. alexs2

    alexs2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,957
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,671
    warrj..... By far the best sound quality is obtained by using no compression at all,or if you have to,then MLP(Meridian Lossless Packing) as developed for DVD-A is probably the best algorithm for that purpose,but aimed at multichannel 24/96 use.

    ATRAC and MP3 produce clearly audible effects on even relatively low priced equipment,leading to a flattening of the sound field,loss of depth,and dynamic compression.

    Any player which avoids these techniques is a good thing....a look at true high end systems such as the Linn Kivor will confirm that.
     
  19. warrj

    warrj
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    It's weak because having no compression represents a waste of hardware resources. I'm aware that lossy compression is a very bad thing. But I don't see why Yamaha couldn't have implemented a lossless compression algorithm.

    As to the quality of the DACs, well, you get what you pay for and, frankly, I don't care how many bits or Megahertz are involved it's a 600 quid machine that does much more than a 600 quid CD player. How good is the DAC really going to be?

    Regards,

    Jules.
     
  20. warrj

    warrj
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Well, you could have one central wireless jukebox (e.g. a Mac running iTunes). You'd also have a wireless Rendezvous/Zeroconf enabled hi-fi component plugged into your stereo (in place of a CD player). You could also have portable devices which could also use the central jukebox. Something along those lines anyway.

    Regards,

    Jules.
     
  21. mjn

    mjn
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2001
    Messages:
    22,256
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Herts, England
    Ratings:
    +10,106
    the fact it has no compression, is NOT a weakness! No that, providing a realtime lossless compression algorithm, would also require extra hardware, and therefore push up the cost. But i'm not 100% sure. Besides, lossless algorithms are quite rare.

    And true a £600 is not going to have superb DAC's, on par with a £600 Cd player. But thats why you would an use an external DAC, it means you can use HDD jukebox, DVD player, cd player, and get very similiar and very good results from almost any transport.
     
  22. mjn

    mjn
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2001
    Messages:
    22,256
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Herts, England
    Ratings:
    +10,106
  23. CJROSS

    CJROSS
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2000
    Messages:
    5,102
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Ratings:
    +343
    Exemplary advice Mjn, but you forgot to mention MD, CDR, DAB, Sat TV ? & Your PC another 5 digital sources that can be fed into a good quality DAC, instant savings on these 4 “sources” include : spending as much as you wish on only One set of IC from the DAC to your amp. One line input on amp for those with limited inputs. But best of all the superior DAC processing your veryb nice DAC can provide to those in the units already.

    I tell you what : if these HDD/CDR units had been about in 1998 when a lot of people took up the MD format (used mainly for compilations IMHO) in large numbers, they would have took off big style, using one today with an external DAC (I feed my MD deck into my DAC with great results BTW) is a no brainer of the highest disorder, I would not rule out having one in future either. The Yamaha HDR-1000 is the tastiest propostion Ive have seen so far in the format, the real benfit of these particular recorders (The Sony & Yammy) to a lot of people is the inclusion of a CD drive in the first place, rather than feeding say a MD or CDR with another CD/DVD transport at extra cost these units come with one built in already, so add Amp + 2 Speakers and you are off, very handy for the hifi starter IMHO.

    Time to watch those prices fall and fall, very nice products though. Technological progress is a wonderful sight to behold sometimes.
     
  24. funkster

    funkster
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Looks cool...

    I'm not as clued up as you lot on this type of stuff...

    Would I have to buy a seperate amplifier and speakers to get it running as a good sound system in the lounge?

    Would there be any loss of sound quality if I were playing tracks from my PC which is on the next floor up?

    What would I have to buy for my computer to make it work?
     
  25. mjn

    mjn
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2001
    Messages:
    22,256
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Herts, England
    Ratings:
    +10,106
    all the answers are in the pdf on the website.
     
  26. sandant

    sandant
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2003
    Messages:
    11
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Westcliff on Sea
    Ratings:
    +0
    I've also been looking at these devices, having seen the user interface on the Sony mechanical cd jukeboxes, I'm uncertain whether to proceed.
    Does anyone have one of these systems?, apart from the laborious task of ripping the CDs, how do you input CD titles/Track listsings if not on cddb?
    How do you index the CDs
    Is there any Grouping function
    Is there any Random function
    and finallly once all the CDs have been ripped can all these index functions be operated from the remote control or do you need a PC connected?

    Regards

    Tony
     

Share This Page

Loading...
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice