Bargain Sony centre direct refurbished store thread

Newguy356

Member
Thank you Everybody I missed that one as well. I just need to be quicker

this week I had decided I would just get a 49x8505. I came to the decision that I wanted a 49 rather than a 55. And there weren’t any! I’ve decided not to go for the 49x9505 as the blooming issue would annoy me. If I’m honest I don’t watch that much telly to justify going for a 55 9505 And I think it’s too big.

but the 55 9005 might have been a nice comprise. I think we are getting to the point where some comprise might be required as models start selling out.
 

brokenamp

Active Member
Looks like you were right as cant see the extra 10% off now - missed the boat again as all seem to be back up to £1199 except Currys with the extra 10% topcashback. Wonder if my local RS will price match Currys @ £1199- 10% cashback then beat by £20? £1060ish? Call in the morning and fingers double crossed
I don't think RS T&C's say they'll beat Topcashback deals, but no harm in asking :)

You've seen that the A8 and A85 are £850 as refurbs, if you're happy to take that risk...
 

peeper999

Standard Member
The electrocuting tv was picked up last week after two weeks waiting and my money was finally refunded today. Never again.
Probably one of the worst buying experiences I’ve ever had in my creaky 43 years. Is the potential saving worth the potential hassle or even your health (in my instance) No.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Thank you Everybody I missed that one as well. I just need to be quicker

this week I had decided I would just get a 49x8505. I came to the decision that I wanted a 49 rather than a 55. And there weren’t any! I’ve decided not to go for the 49x9505 as the blooming issue would annoy me. If I’m honest I don’t watch that much telly to justify going for a 55 9505 And I think it’s too big.

but the 55 9005 might have been a nice comprise. I think we are getting to the point where some comprise might be required as models start selling out.
The XH85 has no backlight control at all, the entire TV will have raised black levels instead of some parts of the screen being dark, some light. Blooming is a by product of local dimming, but its a lot, lot better to have local dimming and good HDR from a TV nowadays than it is to avoid blooming altogether.
 

Newguy356

Member
Thanks Dodge. Maybe I should forget about the xh85 then!

My understanding is that the best tv is the 55 9505 as it doesn’t suffer the blooming issue as badly as the 49 version. I’ve now ruled this out. The best price this was at was 679 Plus the warranty. Too rich for me and I don’t see this coming down much more.

I’m happy to go for the 55 9005 which was 529 plus the warranty. Is probably a bit big but I guess I would get used to that.

The 49 9505 was 579 plus the warranty. Again happy with the price but there seems to be a lot of negativity about blooming on this one

I’m tempered by the 55 9005 as I think there will be less blooming. If I’m honest I wish I hadn’t read the reviews. I probably wo uld not have noticed any issues but one you’ve seen it you’re always going to notice it

I’m guessing your advice would be to go for the 49 9505
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
I don't think that's true. The XH9505 throughout the range will have identical blooming. Usually blooming is worse on larger models, so probably the 85" version is the worst of the lot. Its also relative to how far away you view the TV, and also the angle of view. These TVs have very narrow viewing angles (especially the 49" version) so if someone views them off to the side blooming will be horrendous. You must only buy a TV with a VA panel for direct viewing in front, and not at an angle.

You might have come to that conclusion because you have read users report blooming on the 49" and not so much the 55". That could just mean more people own the 49" TV. It could mean those people are viewing closer. It could mean they are viewing off-axis.

I'm not really an outspoken person with most things, but when it comes to HDR I'm pretty blunt about it. There's less value nowadays buying a TV unless you are buying one that is able to reproduce HDR properly. TVs like the XH85 with no local dimming and 500 nits peak brightness are not good TVs to buy for the future since HDR will be very lackluster, even troublesome.

TVs like the XH90 are a little better, but still fall short at around 750 nits instead of the baseline 1000.

TVs like the XH95 are needed to properly replicate HDR, and it can reach around 1500.

You can read about HDR and why nits is so important here:

For instance, the XH90 probably has less reports of blooming because its brightness is so low. And of course any topic your read about blooming is almost certainly talking about HDR when the TVs backlight is on full. For SDR around 100-110 nits is recommended instead of up to 1500. So unless you use SDR with the backlight on a very high setting blooming will be non-existent. Not to mention you'd probably need to be viewing the TV with the lights off, and in darkness to notice the blooming.

Perhaps though you are just searching in the wrong place, or at the wrong budget if you want a TV to be future proof and have minimal blooming. Samsung LCD TVs suppress blooming better than Sony's in general, and to avoid blooming full stop you'd need to consider instead an OLED.

Just don't go thinking a cheaper TV is the answer, you make too many compromises with HDR picture quality.
 

raz77

Well-known Member
Really happy with Sony refurbished TVs. My 77 oled is a October 2020 build in prefect condition and just 9 hours use
 

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Gelectric

Standard Member
Just wanted to pass on my experience in recent weeks. I wanted to replace a 2020 55 inch Samsung Frame that I had returned to Currys (disaster of a TV, went through 3 of them, all faulty with popping and clicking noises while watching). Over the past two weeks I have ordered two refurbs (49 inch 9196 and 55 inch 9296), both delivered exactly a week after ordering (I live in NI) and they have both been absolutely perfect. Minimal usage hours on both, the 49 9196 was manufactured in December 2020, the 55 9296 is November 2020 with plastic wrapping still around the frames on both. Delighted with them, the 49 is going in the kitchen and 55 will be going on the wall in the living room. I've been quietly following this thread so thanks to all who have been posting about these deals, very happy.
 

raz77

Well-known Member
How do you find out the build month
There’s a sticker on the back with the serial number on and a date of manufacture
 

bydandie

Active Member
The XH85 has no backlight control at all, the entire TV will have raised black levels instead of some parts of the screen being dark, some light.
I'm interested by this as it doesn't match my experience at all in terms of raised blacks within the picture in bright scenes. What did you watch, so I can compare?

My experience is that the picture clips really bright spots of the picture, but black is very dark (and certainly looks black to my untrained eye). I agree that there are times that the whole screen will brighten or darken as one, dependant on source (Netflix appears to be the biggest culprit even in HD) but to say that the XH85 raises the black level in bright scenes (which I what I think you're saying) doesn't match my experience (maybe it's doing something funky make the eye think it is still black?).

My understanding of the Sony algorithm (after further research as a result of our prior discussions) is that it matches the source brightness until it can't where it then tones maps down and clips where it can't.

Whilst I am very happy with the XH85 (as I was going to be going for a Samsung TU8500 before and this is far better), this approach from Sony is the reason why I am looking out over the next year to see the difference between the 49XH95 and the 50XJ94 as the 49XH95 currently has twice the native brightness and tracks up to twice the nits (2000 vs 1000). If there is little between the models, I may just buy the older model.

Again, whilst I am happy with the XH85 I would pay an additional £100 for a far better TV in the 49XH95 if that's all I had to do. This isn't me trying to justify my purchase, and I have spent hours comparing the 4K SDR picture with the DV equivalent and the latter simply has much more depth in it to my eyes.

It'd be really useful if someone could do a side by side comparison between the XH85, XH90 and XH95 as I do wonder if some people are just looking at specs rather than the real world experience.

Of course, I am not an expert in this and am merely a normal person reporting what I see :)
 

hughesie27

Active Member
I'm interested by this as it doesn't match my experience at all in terms of raised blacks within the picture in bright scenes. What did you watch, so I can compare?

My experience is that the picture clips really bright spots of the picture, but black is very dark (and certainly looks black to my untrained eye). I agree that there are times that the whole screen will brighten or darken as one, dependant on source (Netflix appears to be the biggest culprit even in HD) but to say that the XH85 raises the black level in bright scenes (which I what I think you're saying) doesn't match my experience (maybe it's doing something funky make the eye think it is still black?).
Have you seen an OLED in action? TVs are very good at making blacks look black when infact they are just really dark grey. OLEDs are the only TV with truly black reproduction. That is why their images look so good as the contrast is infinite. Colours pop. Even though your TV might perform well to your eye the reality is that even when your TV is showing a black image all of the backlights behind it are on. Put a black image up on screen and watch in a dark room. You will be able to see the outline of your screen. With an OLED you won't, it will look like the TV is off.
TVs with dimming zones are able to turn sections of their backlights on and off to try their best to replicate OLED experiences. This works to varying degrees but ultimately because you end up with 1 section being on and another beside it being off the "On" section bleeds into the darker "off" are. Most notable in subtitles.

I recently upgraded from a Fully Backlit (no dimming) TV to a Full Array local dimming TV and the black levels are extremely noticeable. Night and day if you forgive the pun.

Infact I have an image to show the difference. Like you I was fairly happy with the Dark levelsnon the bottom TV until I made the switch.
 

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bydandie

Active Member
Have you seen an OLED in action? TVs are very good at making blacks look black when infact they are just really dark grey. OLEDs are the only TV with truly black reproduction. That is why their images look so good as the contrast is infinite. Colours pop. Even though your TV might perform well to your eye the reality is that even when your TV is showing a black image all of the backlights behind it are on. Put a black image up on screen and watch in a dark room. You will be able to see the outline of your screen. With an OLED you won't, it will look like the TV is off.
TVs with dimming zones are able to turn sections of their backlights on and off to try their best to replicate OLED experiences. This works to varying degrees but ultimately because you end up with 1 section being on and another beside it being off the "On" section bleeds into the darker "off" are. Most notable in subtitles.

I recently upgraded from a Fully Backlit (no dimming) TV to a Full Array local dimming TV and the black levels are extremely noticeable. Night and day if you forgive the pun.

Infact I have an image to show the difference. Like you I was fairly happy with the Dark levelsnon the bottom TV until I made the switch.
I wholly agree, which is the reason why I reckon that there are tricks at play in making dark look black to the eye. I also fully appreciate that the difference is more noticeable when placing TVs side by side.

I'm interested in how the algorithms work as well, and TBH the whole 'these stats equal bad' is IMHO likely to miss the point in some areas where most people would see 'bad' as being ok even when a TV with similar stats could look very dark and truly bad.

I'm interested to see what 2021 brings, as any TV needs to just work without worrying about how it's used in my house (which I think rules OLED out). The leap in PQ between my Panny and the Sony is stark, and the viewing angles in the Sony VA are better than the Panny too.

With Hisense having faster panels, and the new marketing/tech in the Sony's presents new avenues to explore, there will hopefully be choice for the next TV to last a few years gong forward.
 

Newguy356

Member
Hi all

Thank you for all the comments. Very helpful.

I had read a couple of reviews for both the 49 XH95 and the 55 XH95 by the same person. I am afraid I can't find the links.

In the review for the 49 he mentioned that blooming was an issue. I then watched a video that showed the problem and it was pretty bad on the 49 and the reason being is that there wasn't enough vertical diming zones.

The same reviewer also did a review for the 55 and said that blomming really wasn't an issue on this set.

I am almost certainly overthinking the whole TV buying process. I'm upgrading from a LG 43 set that was one of Dodge best buys last year so I suspect all sets that I am looking at will be an upgrade.

Newguy
 

peteinengland

Standard Member
HOORAY!!! After weeks of looking , forum members input and waiting too long and missing offers, I've finally ordered a Sony KE55A8BU from Richer Sounds on the Currys/Topcashback price match so with their £20 extra got it for £1060 delivered with a six year warranty.

Thanks to everyone on here who was kind enough to help me, it is very much appreciated!!!

Pete
 

superleeds27

Active Member
Hi all

Thank you for all the comments. Very helpful.

I had read a couple of reviews for both the 49 XH95 and the 55 XH95 by the same person. I am afraid I can't find the links.

In the review for the 49 he mentioned that blooming was an issue. I then watched a video that showed the problem and it was pretty bad on the 49 and the reason being is that there wasn't enough vertical diming zones.

The same reviewer also did a review for the 55 and said that blomming really wasn't an issue on this set.

I am almost certainly overthinking the whole TV buying process. I'm upgrading from a LG 43 set that was one of Dodge best buys last year so I suspect all sets that I am looking at will be an upgrade.

Newguy

Similar sort of situation. Looking at the 49 and the 55. Pro's and con's of both.

Assuming that because the 49 doesn't have the X-Wide filter, the contrast ratio should be better than the 55"

Not sure about blooming, not something i've properly looked into.

It's hard to judge the 49" when no-one really reviews it, it's all 55" and up.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
I'm interested by this as it doesn't match my experience at all in terms of raised blacks within the picture in bright scenes. What did you watch, so I can compare?

My experience is that the picture clips really bright spots of the picture, but black is very dark (and certainly looks black to my untrained eye). I agree that there are times that the whole screen will brighten or darken as one, dependant on source (Netflix appears to be the biggest culprit even in HD) but to say that the XH85 raises the black level in bright scenes (which I what I think you're saying) doesn't match my experience (maybe it's doing something funky make the eye think it is still black?).

My understanding of the Sony algorithm (after further research as a result of our prior discussions) is that it matches the source brightness until it can't where it then tones maps down and clips where it can't.

Whilst I am very happy with the XH85 (as I was going to be going for a Samsung TU8500 before and this is far better), this approach from Sony is the reason why I am looking out over the next year to see the difference between the 49XH95 and the 50XJ94 as the 49XH95 currently has twice the native brightness and tracks up to twice the nits (2000 vs 1000). If there is little between the models, I may just buy the older model.

Again, whilst I am happy with the XH85 I would pay an additional £100 for a far better TV in the 49XH95 if that's all I had to do. This isn't me trying to justify my purchase, and I have spent hours comparing the 4K SDR picture with the DV equivalent and the latter simply has much more depth in it to my eyes.

It'd be really useful if someone could do a side by side comparison between the XH85, XH90 and XH95 as I do wonder if some people are just looking at specs rather than the real world experience.

Of course, I am not an expert in this and am merely a normal person reporting what I see :)
Its simple. The XH85 does not have any dimming zones behind the TV, so it can't separated bright parts of the image from darker parts without raising the black level where its not intended to be raised. At circa 500 nits brightness that may not matter as much as the XH9505 with 1500 but having the nits to push out is part of what HDR is about.

The black levels if the XH85 will be raised if there's a bright highlight, since there's no way for the TV to dim one part of the image whilst also brighten another. To do so the entire backlight has to go full, for only part of an image.

Take a look at some tests for local dimming at rtings.com and see the difference on FALD TVs compared to non-FALD:

The test they use is also in the link, so you can use it yourself.

Perhaps you don't notice it because you don't own the XH90 or XH95, or perhaps you don't view an environment where deeper blacks are noticeable. Its really hard to gauge if you don't have something to compare the TV too. I've known people happy with black levels on TVs that have awful black levels, so it really just depends on so many factors..
 

bydandie

Active Member
Its simple. The XH85 does not have any dimming zones behind the TV, so it can't separated bright parts of the image from darker parts without raising the black level where its not intended to be raised. At circa 500 nits brightness that may not matter as much as the XH9505 with 1500 but having the nits to push out is part of what HDR is about.

The black levels if the XH85 will be raised if there's a bright highlight, since there's no way for the TV to dim one part of the image whilst also brighten another. To do so the entire backlight has to go full, for only part of an image.

Take a look at some tests for local dimming at rtings.com and see the difference on FALD TVs compared to non-FALD:

The test they use is also in the link, so you can use it yourself.

Perhaps you don't notice it because you don't own the XH90 or XH95, or perhaps you don't view an environment where deeper blacks are noticeable. Its really hard to gauge if you don't have something to compare the TV too. I've known people happy with black levels on TVs that have awful black levels, so it really just depends on so many factors..
I get there’s tests out there, I was interested in the tests you’ve done on the TV as it’s always useful to get real world comparisons. 😃

I was under the impression that the 49XH was 900nits and not 1500?

Finally, I fully accept that the XH90 with 700 nits and the XH95 starting at 900nits will be better. I’m intrigued to see if the computational aspect of the TV is at play, I don’t doubt that the TV is merely OK but it should be worse from the considered opinion of what makes a good TV.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
I get there’s tests out there, I was interested in the tests you’ve done on the TV as it’s always useful to get real world comparisons. 😃
I haven't done any tests on the TVs. To do so I'd need to buy different models and that's not something I have the finances for. It doesn't really matter though, there's plenty of other tests out there to draw conclusions from. The rtings.com link I sent explains it.

I think when you move to a TV that has local dimming and higher peak brightness you'll probably see what I mean. I have no doubt the XH85 is a good TV, I just don't think its a very good choice if you are going to use HDR material.
 

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