Sony BDP-S5000ES betters AV9.

gbaby

Active Member
To my surprise, I just discovered that using the Sony blu-ray, BDPS500ES, through its analog outs to the AV9, is sonically better with legacy Dolby Digital and DTS than the sound of both through the AV9. Sonically, what you get is a purer, more liquid sound that is more of a window to the source. I now use the Sony BDP-S5000ES for to play back 5.1 Dolby Digital and DTS. In fact, through the S5000ES, its sound on legacy surround is better the EX and ES through the AV9. I am shocked.:smashin:
 

PenguinHiFi

Active Member
Hi gbaby,

Weird discovery...

If the signal is sent from a Blu-Ray, it's no surprise as the tracks are converted to a full rate DTS or Dolby track.

But if it's sent from a standard DVD, I am surprised the Sony does a better job than the AV9 :-(

Maybe something to set-up in your system as how the digital path is handeld...

Regards.

PenguinHiFi
 

gbaby

Active Member
Hi gbaby,

Weird discovery...

If the signal is sent from a Blu-Ray, it's no surprise as the tracks are converted to a full rate DTS or Dolby track.

But if it's sent from a standard DVD, I am surprised the Sony does a better job than the AV9 :-(

Maybe something to set-up in your system as how the digital path is handeld...

Regards.

PenguinHiFi

I don't think there is anything wrong with the digital signal path in the AV9. I have concluded that the D/A converter in the Sony BDP-S5000ES is simply superior to that in the AV9. In fact, I discovered this by accident. One thing about it, Arcam got it right by putting emphasis in the design of its analog outs on the AV9 so that one could take advantage of better D/A processor in another unit. What I hear on the Sony is nothing. It simply allows one to be immersed in the soundtrack from any movie or concert. I hear the sound but not the equipment in a way that I've never discovered. Plus, the S5000ES gets the bass right, really deep and clean. The S5000ES is simply a revelation when playing movies or concerts. Its like I purchased a new processor. :thumbsup:
 

PenguinHiFi

Active Member
Hi gbaby,

There is one thing that might expain. Please understand what I'm trying to do : I'm not trying to convince you (or anybody else) that the AV9 MUST be superior to the Sony Blu-Ray player.

When you connect a player to a pre/pro using the digital output, the decoding is done by the pre/pro. You have to customize your set-up in the pre/pro, and the setting of the player will have no effect on the result.

When you connect your player to a pre/pro using the analogue outputs, the decoding is done by the player and sent as it is by the pre/pro. So you have to set-up the system in the player settings.

What I'm trying to say is following :

- the settings used in both devices may differ in a way that makes you rather listen to the Sony set-up as to the AV9 settings ;
- the decoding done by the Sony may, in fact, be superior to the one (older...) done by your AV9.

Anyways, this is interesting to know and I will try to use analogue outputs on my devices ;-)

Regards.

PenguinHiFi
 

gbaby

Active Member
Hi gbaby,

There is one thing that might expain. Please understand what I'm trying to do : I'm not trying to convince you (or anybody else) that the AV9 MUST be superior to the Sony Blu-Ray player.

When you connect a player to a pre/pro using the digital output, the decoding is done by the pre/pro. You have to customize your set-up in the pre/pro, and the setting of the player will have no effect on the result.

When you connect your player to a pre/pro using the analogue outputs, the decoding is done by the player and sent as it is by the pre/pro. So you have to set-up the system in the player settings.

What I'm trying to say is following :

- the settings used in both devices may differ in a way that makes you rather listen to the Sony set-up as to the AV9 settings ;
- the decoding done by the Sony may, in fact, be superior to the one (older...) done by your AV9.

Anyways, this is interesting to know and I will try to use analogue outputs on my devices ;-)

Regards.

PenguinHiFi


If you have analog devices with good D/A converters, you owe it to yourself to use their analog outputs. I own the Sony CD player, the SCD-XA5400ES, and it too sounded better using the analog outs in 2 channel than the AV9 2 channel digital sound. However, I was shocked when the sony blu-ray, BDP-S5000ES, proved superior in every way over the AV9 even with EX and ES which is 6.1 and 7.1 respectively when the Sony is only playing 5.1. The sony seem to remove a layer between you and the soundtrack, and the improvement is not minor. However, I also have a Sony blu-ray the BDP-S1000ES and it analog outs are simply like a toy. It sounds terrible. So, I guess it depends on your device or unit. I think this is a testament to an underrated product, the Sony BDP-S5000ES. This is the way to improve your system, by simply getting a blu-ray or CD player that sounds better than your processor. If I sound overly excited, I am.:D
 

PenguinHiFi

Active Member
Hi gbaby,

Well, the Sony Blu-Ray player might be a killer in the audio domain.
That might well be.
Sony, as other brands like Marantz or Philips, sometimes release products that are simply amazing for their price. Some of the Philips CD players are simply collector items :) And they sound simply as good as it gets !

So the Sony player would be to consider. The only thing is : it doesn't match my other devices from it's aspect :-(

Regards.

PenguinHiFi
 

KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
This is interesting to me as my longer term plan when I bought the AV9 was to get a 'quality' BluRay player with good analogue outputs. In the meantime I've been using the coax output of my existing BDP-S350 Sony player and find that this still sounds better than the same player output over HDMI into my old receiver - even though that receiver was decoding the 'full' HD rather than 1.5mbps core and was using the same power amps.

Therefore I'm not surprised that there are further differences to be made as currently if using the AV9 to decode you can only get 'core' DTS at best which is 1.5mbps. However when using the S5000 you are decoding 'full' HD in the player and using the AV9's very good analogue circuits to pass the signal onto the power amp(s).

This bodes well for the Arcam BD player if it arrives later this year (and assuming it is bug free/sorted quickly and that I've saved up enough to buy one by then :)).
 

gbaby

Active Member
Hi gbaby,

Well, the Sony Blu-Ray player might be a killer in the audio domain.
That might well be.
Sony, as other brands like Marantz or Philips, sometimes release products that are simply amazing for their price. Some of the Philips CD players are simply collector items :) And they sound simply as good as it gets !

So the Sony player would be to consider. The only thing is : it doesn't match my other devices from it's aspect :-(

Regards.

PenguinHiFi

You hit the nail on the head. The Sony BDP-S5000ES is "killer in the audio domain." And, it is amazing for its price. However, I also own a Sony BDP-S1000ES, and its audio from analog outs is nothing short of horrible.:thumbsdow It sounds like a tin can. But, with the BDP-S5000ES, my audio system has reached new heights.:thumbsup:
 

gbaby

Active Member
This is interesting to me as my longer term plan when I bought the AV9 was to get a 'quality' BluRay player with good analogue outputs. In the meantime I've been using the coax output of my existing BDP-S350 Sony player and find that this still sounds better than the same player output over HDMI into my old receiver - even though that receiver was decoding the 'full' HD rather than 1.5mbps core and was using the same power amps.

Therefore I'm not surprised that there are further differences to be made as currently if using the AV9 to decode you can only get 'core' DTS at best which is 1.5mbps. However when using the S5000 you are decoding 'full' HD in the player and using the AV9's very good analogue circuits to pass the signal onto the power amp(s).

This bodes well for the Arcam BD player if it arrives later this year (and assuming it is bug free/sorted quickly and that I've saved up enough to buy one by then :)).

The sound of the Sony BDP-S5000ES, through its analog outs with just 5.1 still sounds better than the Arcam AV9 using 7.1 in Dolby digital EX or ES 6.1. Naturally, the True Dolby Digital HD and DTS-MA throught the Sony analog outs raises the sound bar even higher. But, I was particularly surprised that the legacy surround sound was superior on a Sony blu-ray to a dedicated processor. If you have analog pass through on your receiver or pre/pro, you can still enjoy the new surround codecs through the Sony BDP-S5000ES. It cost more but you are paying for the sound of the analog outs. In fact, I am about to purchase another S5000ES for my bed room system.
 

bootyman81

Distinguished Member
I have also been using this setup (see sig') for about a year now

I am using the analogue outs at present and will continue to do so because I have compared the two with the different ins/outs (coax, optical vs. analogues) and I completely agree that the Sony 5000es does indeed sound better. Just as you describe it :smashin:

Adding the 5000es was a revelation. Not just for movies but even with CD playback it sounds excellent.
like you say it's quite an underrated player and doesn't seem to get much attention on these forums.
I am really happy with this player but I am intrigued by what the new Arcam BD player will be like, especially as from a purely cosmetic standpoint it would be a nice match.
would love to demo it at home when it's released.
 

Buckster

Distinguished Member
surprising - but not unlikely - the Arcam uses high end Wolfson 8740 DACs accomp. with lots of decent quality circuitry, the Sony don't know what DAC it uses but Sony in the past have used proprietary ones of their own - which are good quality.

I had a reference level Sony DVD player, used in a 2 channel hifi setup, with an Audiolab DAC, as the player outputted analogue and digitital at same time, I could switch between inputs on the amp and do a genuine A-B - I couldn't hear any difference (both sounded vey good) - but that was quite a testament to how good the Sony's internal DACs and associated components were

to be honest - they're both at the level that its down to personal preference, so in your case could be a preference to one sound over the other rather than necessarily one being better than the other
 

gbaby

Active Member
...to be honest - they're both at the level that its down to personal preference, so in your case could be a preference to one sound over the other rather than necessarily one being better than the other

Its beyond personal preferences. The Sony BDP-S5000ES simply has better sound for with legacy 5.1 than the Arcam using EX and ES legacy 6.1 or 7.1.
 

Michaelw77

Active Member
I will be connecting a S5000ES to a Sony RHTG1000 theatre stand. Would it be best to connect using coaxial or analogue?
 

Noobie Here

Active Member
Its beyond personal preferences. The Sony BDP-S5000ES simply has better sound for with legacy 5.1 than the Arcam using EX and ES legacy 6.1 or 7.1.

Isn't the above statement simply an indication of personal preference ?

Sonically, what you get is a purer, more liquid sound that is more of a window to the source.

What exactly does that mean ?

I'm not normally one who would recommend or reach for the test rig or statistics but really indicating something is beyond personal preference is a low value statement without some sort of objective reasoning.

If you find it better, that's fine, enjoy, but I think your claims that it is a matter of fact and personal preference isn't a factor at all are wide of the mark.
 
Last edited:

Da Philster

Active Member
Its beyond personal preferences. The Sony BDP-S5000ES simply has better sound for with legacy 5.1 than the Arcam using EX and ES legacy 6.1 or 7.1.

I disagree,how we perceive audio "quality" is almost always a personal preference to some degree or another.
I too have tried the Sony 5000es(thanks Paul for the loan),and found i missed the bass mgmnt from the proc or the Denon 3800bd and thx processing on some legacy tracks.Also,with films like the L.O.T.R triliogy, on dvd, the missing discreet rear data was leaving a gap in my sound stage.
Of course its a very very good player and liked the picture just as much as my Denon 3800bd but in my opinion(and thats the reality,it is just my preference) I think the options the AV9 offers with legacy formats and the above mentioned post processing(dolby d only for me,dts is normally fine )capability,means I will only use the Denon/sony for BD high res audio via the analogues,even then i sometimes miss the rear back channel on bd 5.1 hdmaster or true hd but with older tech I cant have it all eh.:)
 

norks27

Active Member
liquid sound

Is it just me that has memories of Alan Partridge on 'The Day Today', describing a goal as 'liquid football', never thought I'd see Alan Partridge styled comments on hi-fi :p
 

gbaby

Active Member
What exactly does that mean ?

I'm not normally one who would recommend or reach for the test rig or statistics but really indicating something is beyond personal preference is a low value statement without some sort of objective reasoning.

If you find it better, that's fine, enjoy, but I think your claims that it is a matter of fact and personal preference isn't a factor at all are wide of the mark.


What I was describing is that it seems that a layer between you and the music or souce has been removed, and the sound puts you more into the recording studio. As a matter of fact, the equipment, itself, is invisible with one hearing the music rather than the equipment.:thumbsup:
 

Phill1978

Active Member
what cant the Sony do?

i.e can it output DTS-ES/EX via analogue?

also it can output 7.1 analogue but in an extended theatre room with extra channels you would use a Proccesor/AV amp to create 8/9/10 channels hence running the converted analogue signal through the internal DAC/soundfield manager and reducing quality.

analogue may sound better but the best thing for advanced room -EQ / extra channel extraction is to use a decent processor or AV amp via HDMI IMO.

:)
 

gbaby

Active Member
what cant the Sony do?

i.e can it output DTS-ES/EX via analogue?

also it can output 7.1 analogue but in an extended theatre room with extra channels you would use a Proccesor/AV amp to create 8/9/10 channels hence running the converted analogue signal through the internal DAC/soundfield manager and reducing quality.

analogue may sound better but the best thing for advanced room -EQ / extra channel extraction is to use a decent processor or AV amp via HDMI IMO.

:)


Please re-read post number 9.;)
 
Last edited:

The latest video from AVForums

Star Wars Andor, Woman King, more Star Trek 4K, Rings of Power & the latest TV, movies & 4K releases
Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Full fat HDMI teeshirts

Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom