Sony apparantly selling used TVs!

Discussion in 'General TV Discussions Forum' started by Jon Weaver, Sep 28, 2001.

  1. Jon Weaver

    Jon Weaver
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    I had a Sony KV36FS70 delivered in January, which was 'new'..

    I could tell that this was the case as the box was un-opened. (I think that the screen had stickers on, but I can't be sure if that was my Panasonic which had these).

    Anyway.. It had some faults and had to go back to my supplier for evaluation (Repair)

    On transit, the couriers apparantly 'destroyed' it..

    So, I was offered a "New" replacement.

    Last Friday, it was delivered and I was immediatly concerned at the fact that the box had brown parcel tape holding down the lid.

    Once the TV was out of the box, it was clear (in my opinion) that it wasn't new.. It had finger prints all over it (especially the screen where it had a kind of diagram drawn in fingerprints, like someone was pointing something out (A fault perhaps)).

    It also had a little dust at the back.

    I rejected the set, but was told by my supplier that they would get me another 'New' one out.

    They assured me that they got it this way from Sony.. It looks re-conditioned to me.. But its hasn't even been cleaned to look like new.

    Today my 2nd replacement arrived.. Again, brown parcel tape and again finger prints all over the TV.

    Its clear to me that these TVs arn't new, but in my suppliers defence, they say that this is how they come from Sony.

    Could it be that Sony are shipping used/opened or reconditioned TVs as new?
     
  2. johnson

    johnson
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    I have had new sets delivered from Sony(thatcham)and they dont come with parcel tape.They do come with stickers on the screen.<br />Go into service mode display,5,volume up,select tv(button top left on remote)<br />next find"emergency history".In this setting you will find an hours used indicator.<br />Obviously you shouldn't tell Sony you've been in this menu but it may give you piece of mind
     
  3. Timh

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    Simon, do you know if it is possible to check the hours used on my set, you know what it is.

    cheers
     
  4. Jon Weaver

    Jon Weaver
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    Thanks for the confirmation about the stickers.. Both sets I have didn't have stickers on the screen...

    The fact that the stickers are missing confirms it.. If they were given a 'quality check' as I have been told, why on earth would they remove the stickers?

    The first one had 20min on the clock, so perhaps it was just a quick test.... But that necessarily mean that this is accurate and they havn't done a 'factory reset' it at some point (I assume that you can if you know how).

    I didn't even let them get the 2nd one out of the box so couldn't check it.

    I am really REALLY p**sed of with this.. Either my supplier is supplying 'used' equipment to me, or Sony is really supplying it like this to them. But I have a fear that I am going to get lumbered with this TV which I am not happy with.

    I am asking for a refund so that I can take my business elsewhere. And tommorow I am going to visit some shops and see if they will let me look at their stock!

    I am not happy.. I take pride in knowing that EVERYTHING I have ever bought has always been factory sealed.

    I can't explain why this is important to me.. Its just something I do and have always done.. (like I have to take a magazine from the back of the rack, so that no-one has touched it.. Even though its only a magazine and its going to be read anyway). It clear that have problems with my head <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
     
  5. johnson

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    Tim<br />There definately is a history within your set and it is accesed by entering a two digit code when TT appears.Unfortunately I can't remember which code.Obviously if its the wrong code you could end up reseting the whole set.You need a service manual.Unfortunately it's about 60 pounds for yours and only 18 pounds for mine.Not sure why the difference.http://www.kv32tweak.freeuk.com/.<br />You might find the answer here in there forums.Sorry. <br />John<br />The stickers on my sets have been information sheets and there's also been a wega sticker in the corner.<br />My sets have also had about 20mins on them when new.
     
  6. Damian1978

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    Hi,

    Jon.....you have'nt got problems in your head. I always demand and feel better when my products are brand new and never opened (like they should be).

    Afterall thats what we pay our hard earned money for!

    Your problem is worrying as I am waiting for a Sony KV28FX65 from Martin Dawes.

    Good luck finding a "new" one.

    Perhaps there was a dodgy batch that needed checking??

    <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
     
  7. delta

    delta
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    I returned four faulty Sony 41" tv's within a week, they all had faulty menu's. I know the dealer is responsible for repairing the tv's and charging back to Sony and it is quite possible for them to be passed on as 'new' by some dealers.
     
  8. Richard46

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    HiThis does not just happen with Sony. When I bought my Panasonic 36PF10 last year the box had been brown tapped and when it was opened; in the garden as it would not go through the door it was covered in fingerprints ( and didnt have an english language manual). <br />It didnt get past the garden. The dealer apologised profusely said he had bought it on from another dealer and replaced it.<br />PS Jon; I think its quite normal to pick the magazine from the back of the rack and to keep a hankerchief to open public convenience doors with etc, etc. See Jack Nickolson in 'As good as it gets' for more sensible tips.
     
  9. Jon Weaver

    Jon Weaver
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    I wouldn't mind if my dealer accepted that they were wrong.

    But I keep getting told that this is how they get them from Sony and worse still, this is how ALL their stock is!

    I can't imagine how p**sed I would be if I had just bought it as new and got one like this shipped to me.

    Its amazing that they think that they can get away with it.. These sets are clearly 'used' and there is no way that I will accept one like this.

    If there was some truth behind the fact that Sony were 'quality controlling' the TVs, atleast I would expect them to clean them afterwards and make them look new!

    Hopefully on monday, I will be offered a brand-new replacement or a refund.

    I have already spoke to John Lewis's about price matching, but it seems that their restriction of internet prices may have already come into play.

    Saying that, the high street price of the FS70 is now down to £2200 (And you get a 5 year guarantee), so the internet price isn't as much of a saving as before.
     
  10. Stuart Wright

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    Jon,<br />I think it is perferctly normal when you are purchasing something to expect it to be perfect.<br />I recently bought a Roland drum unit which when delivered, came in an unrelated and wrongly sized box, clearly used manual, scratches on the plastic case and the wrong power supply. When I used a spare compatible power supply, the unit was dead anyway.<br />The replacement was clearly brand new.<br />It's incredible the stupidity that some people have in expecting customers to put up with used good sold as new.<br />On the other hand, I wouldn't object to a telly arriving after a few hours use provided this has been for testing purposes. But I would expect this to happen at the factory and then the stickers etc added. CRTs come with a few hundred hours use. Better to know that they have successfully passed a soak test.
     
  11. Keiron

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    It sounds like what they're selling is 'graded' stock, which has been previously owned and returned for one reason or another.

    Get on to your local Trading Standards at the council.
     
  12. Jon Weaver

    Jon Weaver
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    Finally I got somewhere...

    I have a few colleagues at work me who are ex-Sony TV employees (their TV plant is only 10 miles from here).

    I told them the story and they say that there is NO way that these TVs are 'Factory Condition'.

    However, after speaking with my supplier several times, I have bascially been ask "how am I qualified to decide whether something is 'new' or not".

    I suggested that one guy should contact his 'quality' departement and tell them of my complaint and was told "Who did I think I was telling them how to run their business"!

    As you can imagine, this really wound me up, so I dropped a mail to their sales-director.

    In fairness, he has been very good about this . He has appologised profusly and said that he is disgusted with his staff for not taking my complain seriously and checking their stock incase I am right.

    After all.. Imagine the ramifications of selling TV like this to paying customers!

    Anyway, they have offered a full refund, which I am happy to take under the circumstances.. Not because I am p**sed with them, but because they can't guarantee a 'new' set.

    So, its off to John Lewis to see if they will price match.

    Its a shame that there is nothing new out, as it would be nice to take the cash and upgrade to something better.

    But my only choice is the new Toshiba (Which I have seen to many posts with problems for my comfort) or an upgrade to a Plasma (But I can't justify the extra ££££s).

    So I think that its another Sony for me.

    Thanks to everyone for your help.

    All the best

    Jon
     
  13. delta

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    Good for you! Let this be a lesson, if goods are not what you expect, ie, they are in anyway marked or incorrectly packaged, then you have the right to reject them. By the way, be careful with John Lewis price matching, (refer to threads elsewhere on this forum), they DO know they are being undersold but are playing silly buggers.
     
  14. Jon Weaver

    Jon Weaver
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    No lesson to be learned from me.. I am the fussyest person around and ALWAYS get my way.

    You wouldn't believe some of the things that I have been able to get swaped, or even got for free because of my complaining.

    My recent sucess was a pair of £250 Oakley sunglasses in return for a fault pair of their cheaper ones.

    It pays to complain and not give up until you get your way!

    Mind you I have had a good deal out of this.. I originally bought a Panasonic from them over a year ago.

    But this had problems, and the company offered to change it 'when they got stock' but this took 4 months!

    In January, I got my FS70 and now I am getting a refund.

    The use of a 36" TV for a year for free, isn't bad going.

    JL price matching isn't a problem either. I have got confirmation that the are going to match the price of 'Unbeatable' for £2025.

    So, I even end up £30 better of and get a 5 year warantee out of the deal... Nice!
     
  15. Guest

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    Simon,

    I am keen to get into the engineering menu but I have not been able to using your instructions. Must be doing something wrong. When you say service menu, you mean press the menu button, them you say press 5, volume up and the TV select button! Is this at the same time or individally?. I tried both without success. Can you please run through it again with a bit more detail.
    My tv is an FS70.

    Regards

    George
     
  16. Guest

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    Many thanks Jon. Thanks to your instructions, I have sorted out a problem I've been waiting Sony to sort out for months. Basically, the TV(mine in any case) is factory set to "NTSC auto detect" via AV2 and AV3. So when playing something the TV thinks might be NTSC, it flickers between black/white and colour failing to lock on to colour. I've changed this via the menu and it's now SORTED.

    Only one other problem now left. Basically, I get two vertical shadow bands moving horizontally and very quickly across the screen. This happens on terrestrial and AV and all the time. Sony say it's something local, but I have borrowed a 28" Sony and connected it exactly the same way and found no problems. Also, other TVs(smaller) in the house also have no problems. Sony are offering me a refund or I can swop the FS70 for KP44PS2.

    Any ideas anyone on both questions. Should I have the KP44PS2 instead of the FS70 and does anyone know what my shadow problem might be caused by?
     
  17. Jon Weaver

    Jon Weaver
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    Do you have analoge interconnect from the TV out to your amp?

    If so, try removing these cables and see if it helps.

    I have heard about a 'ground loop' problem and someone asked me to try this.

    Let me know if it helps
     
  18. Guest

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    Jon,

    I have an AV amplifier connected to the TV, but in any case, I have disconnected everything from the TV and even unplugged the mains leads of all my equipment just leaving the TV on it's own with just the Rf aerial plugged in. Unfortunately, the problem persists. The more I think of it, the more I conclude it has to be the TV.
     
  19. gwbailey

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    Yep, I think Keiron's right guys!

    Can I join the club!

    The same thing happened to me a couple of years ago. I got a Sony FD1 from one of the adverts in the back of HCC without naming names, (they're from Birmmingham) it was the best price I could find, so I went for it. Two days later it came in a white box with brown tape on the top. I opened it,no stickers,dust on the back, and the remote had bits of crisps suck in it. well thats funny I thought so I then checked the picture and it had a dark shadow down the middle, so I got it changed for another one. guess what? the same thing happened again, so I got it changed again but before the bloke got it off the back of the truck I saw that it was a white box with brown tape on. As you can guess that one didn't even get off the back of the truck!

    I got a full refund and went to the Sony centre down town, got the KV-32DS60, and never looked back!

    I've since found out that (as Keiron says) Sony do Re-Cons for a lower price, which is why the shop in Birmmingham sell so cheap!

    The thing that gets me most is I've never since seen a picture come close to the FD1!

    :mad:

    [ 04-10-2001: Message edited by: gwbailey ]
     
  20. Jon Weaver

    Jon Weaver
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    George,

    The service menu is not something you have access to as default.

    To get it you have to turn of the TV, press the 2 dimpled buttons at top of the set.. Hold them and switch the TV on.

    Now you will see 2 things you won't have before.

    'TT' in green at the top-right of the screen.. here you can enter numbers.. BUT UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES PRESS ANY NUMBERS WHEN THIS IS ON THE SCREEN.

    When you now press menu, a couple of times, you will go into a whole new set of menus.. But please be very VERY careful.

    Don't change anything unless you know what you are doing.

    A number of the options are very helpful and will allow you to adjust the geometry of the screen quite easily, but a lot of the features will do things that no-one understands.

    To be fair, its quite hard ot make changes accidently.. You have to press enter afer making changes, so its work having a look around the menus to see what there is..

    But, its worth taking a note all of the settings..

    I actually took digital photos of every-screen and turned it into a spread-sheet, just in case.

    Good luck!
     
  21. Napoleon

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    This sounds like a certain .......Centre i used and had some'fun' with.I also had the brown tape across the top of the box.A company to avoid for sure.
     
  22. Jon Weaver

    Jon Weaver
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    I would understand if this was a 'small' companys, but the my supplier is one of the LARGE ones.

    Their staff are adamant that ALL their stock is 'new'... Even to the point of getting agressive about it.. Accusing me of making wild accusations!

    Even when I told them that pehaps they wern't intentionally selling stock like this, and maybe they should check their stock, they got nasty and said "how dare I tell them how to run their business"

    I have since escallated this to their directors, and got an apology.. Their director agrees with me in that his staff should have heard alarm bells ringing and even if they didn't believe me, atleast should have checked.

    I now have a full refund and am shopping again for a new TV.. However, in light of the current range of 36" TVs on the market, I still feel that the FS70 is the best choice (I was going to go for the Toshiba, but there are to many posts from people with problems for my liking).

    Thanks for everyone for their feedback on this.
     
  23. Bone Daddy

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    Just to add my 2 pence worth to this as a way of helping anyone out,a good couple of years ago I bought a Sony tv from their store in B`ham,not `That one` this has centre and S**y somewhere in their name,they tried to deliver two sets to me fully sealed metal clips,clear Sony tape,etc,but `and this is the one to watch for folks`been opened on the bottom and sealed with the famous brown tape,after much delving,it helped to know the service engineer,it turned out they were trying to fob me off with a set that another customer had rejected - appaling service :mad: So there you have it,it may look factory fresh,but has your local shop been tinkering with the bottom??This happens the country wide,be aware folks
     
  24. Bone Daddy

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    P.S. I meant to say it happens on all brands,a friend in Burton had the same stunt with a Panasonic,so it`s not just `FONY`
     
  25. Stone Free

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    I just had delivered this morning a KV32DX30 from Comet Direct.

    This did not have the two white packaging strips that the diagram shows need to be cut. And the top was sealed with light brown tape.

    In what way is the television packaging meant to be sealed ?

    I have not managed to test it yet, but I did notice there is only one "DVB" sticker on the screen. How many stickers should there be ?

    The delivery drivers told me that the brown tape is normal. When I phoned Comet customer services they told me that if the white strips/tape is/are broken then they will reseal it.

    He assured me that this had come directly from the depot and not via Comet store stock.

    I will check the "emergency history" when I get home.

    The television was dust free and showed no signs of damage of any kind, so hopefully it should be alright

    They will have to pry the cabinet from my cold dead hands, after the time it took me to put it together.


    Peter
     
  26. Jon Weaver

    Jon Weaver
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    My 'used' TV has now gone back. Today I recieved my 'new' FS70 from John Lewis.

    But its not a good end to the story.

    The box from JL, had been re-sealed too, just like the last 2 I had recieved.. It was neatly done mind, but there was definatly 2 layers of tape...

    Unlike the other ones, there weren't any fingerprints on the chassis, but, there still were no stickers on the screen.

    When I got it out and could take a close look at the screen, again, there was a 'diagram' drawn in fingerprints..

    The 'diagram' is two 12"x4" rectangles one above the other.

    Its clear that the problem is not with my supplier after all, but with Sony.

    Perhaps they truely did have to make some kind of modification to the FS70 and had to unpack and 'fix' them all.

    I am not as happy as I should be after spending 2 grand... But atleast I know for sure that this one was a new as it could be.

    I still wish Sony would think about cleaning the TVs and making them look 'new' after doing what ever they are doing to them.
     
  27. Jon Weaver

    Jon Weaver
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    And it packed up within an hour!
     
  28. Jon Weaver

    Jon Weaver
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    Sorry to drag this up again.

    But I just got my 2nd FS70 from John Lewis (4th in all) and this one had the same problems (i.e Box Resealed, Screen filthy)

    I wish I could find out what Sony are doing.. Atleast it would put my mind at rest.

    I am a little peaved actually, as I got JL to price match from 2200 to 2000.

    However as the TV used to be 2500 and has been reduced everywhere to 2200, I expected the online price to drop a little too.

    Today I note that Empire Direct are now doing it for 1800..

    I might have to have a little word with JL and see if we can come to an arrangement.
     

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