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Sony and misleading marketing techniques

Discussion in 'Headphones, Earphones & Portable Music' started by Alcahest, May 22, 2005.

  1. Alcahest

    Alcahest
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    Hey All,
    I'm a bit fed up with Sony bullsh*tting people about their player directly supporting the MP3 format.

    As a matter of fact, the NW-HD3 or HD5 DO NOT support MP3s, they support MP3s converted to open MG !

    Meaning that you just can't drag and drop to the player like if it were just an external drive, or share your so-called "MP3s" after you've used SonicStage to transfer them to the player.

    And this is the point of my message. WHY ? Why does Sony force you to encrypt the files which will make them unusable on a friend's PC or other DAP considering you HAVE the MP3s in the first place?

    Is it really solely to annoy people? Since you can always give the original MP3s to your friend...

    Also, something interesting to note is that the PSP on the other hand supports native MP3s without any conversion/encryption whatsoever.

    So again, why would they annoy us on the HD3/HD5 when they don't on PSP?

    It's about time they stop all this nonsense DRM bullsh*t, don't you guys think?
    Later,

    Alcahest
    Edit: check this thread for more MP3/OpenMG useful infos: http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?t=7532
     
  2. ancientgeek

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    Sony is in the music publishing business. They want the music paid for, not shared. (They forget that their business is enabled by sharing; most music was/is heard/discovered for free over the radio & TV.) Therefore they will not enable copying. An MP3 file is copyable.

    The music publishers want to move to pay per play. Then they can make money forever from a zero-cost product. When they reach critical mass on DRM & subscription services (they hope) CD's will cease to be widely available. (we're talking 5-10 years time here)

    The problem with MP3, and even ITMS 79p per track DRM is that it puts independent artists on a level playing field with the "pigopolists". Now that there is no physical distribution channel (factories, warehouses, shops) their monopoly leverage is going. Over time they may lose control of the music market. Hence they want everyone to go DRM subscription, pulling distribution back into a single channel which they can retain control of.

    Playback will be managed by non user-programmable devices like iPod, PS3 & mobile phones.

    They hope.

    We'll see.

    Unfortunately, governments take more notice of them than of the electorate. Big business finances the politicians to canvass the indifferent electorate to keep them in power with the help of a biassed electoral system (22% voted labour, 78% didn't, but labour have a comfortable majority to go along with Sony, Dubya or whoever else they want to).

    Big business does make wonderful things for us, and they need legal protection to make it worth their while to do it. But music publishing is not an area that needs extra protection; exisiting legislation (outlawing copying for gain) is IMO good enough. If giant music publishers are replaced by another business model, so be it; it's not the government's job to protect them.

    The point of this rant is that Sony et al need the help of governments to outlaw the manufacture of devices that can bypass DRM. DMCA is one of their victories, but the battle is still being fiercely waged with virtually no public debate. Write to your MP.
     
  3. mcfarfs

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    Actually, they do support MP3s. SonicStage places an OMG wrapper over the MP3 file as it is transferred to the player. Butit does NOT convert the file. If you change the settings in SS to convert all MP3s to ATRAC before transferring, you will notice it takes 20 - 30 seconds per song. It takes no extra time to place music in an OMG wrapper.The reason for this is the player can be used as an external Harddrive. This means you can explore the contents of the player using Windows Explorer. It is just another annoying DRM thing.
     
  4. watchinthewheel

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    i hate sony for that too but they are just another company trying to keep a hold of an industry they cant see they have already lost. face it they ripped us off at £15 for a cd for far far too long and now they cant stand to see that golden age dissapear, well i for one am very very happy to see them squirm like this.
     
  5. KeanosMagicHat

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    Drag and drop utility that works with NW-HD1 and NW-HD3, not sure about NW-HD5 yet.

    Thread:

    http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=107734

    Download Link:

    http://esupport.sony.com/perl/swu-download.pl?template=EN&upd_id=1730&os_id=3,4,6,7,16&mdl=VGFAP1L

    Hint - When downloading the utility is the first part of the installation, after the utility has installed stop the installation process if you already have SonicStage.
     
  6. watchinthewheel

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    if you use that how is the database on the hd3 used? does it read the mp3's id3 tag? if it does thats a great find!
     
  7. David Mackenzie

    David Mackenzie
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    Sony are the kinds of misleading marketing. PS2 and it's "photorealistic visuals". My LCD TV that says "HDTV Compatible"... ah yes, but it's not ACTUALLY HDTV Compatible :p
     
  8. KeanosMagicHat

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    I actually don't know, give it a try.

    I only tested it to make sure it transferred the files as I'm an ATRAC 3+ guy myself.

    The main point that I was making was that there was a drag and drop utility available (if you know where to look).
     
  9. Steven

    Steven
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    why have DRM? piracy. most harddrive MP3 player manufacturer uses it to prevent piracy. you can understand it therefore.

    Alcahest if you must make such a thread and post, at least do some research 1st. Every post to this thread has dispproved most of what you say.

    As for the PSP, the music goes on memory sticks which are only useable on memory stick compatible devices - most if not all are Sony products! so thats why they don't have DRM with PSP
     
  10. Alcahest

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    > why have DRM? piracy. most harddrive MP3 player manufacturer uses it to > prevent piracy. you can understand it therefore.

    Thanks Mr obvious. Yes i know it's to prevent piracy, but it's totally absurd because you have the original MP3s in the first place, so you can always trade them if you want.
    Case in point: the DRM protection is only annoying and doesn't prevent piracy whatsoever.
    It only does if you buy music online. How many users interested in the HD3/HD5 do you think actually buy music online? not many I would say.
    Most users will just rip their own CDs.

    > Alcahest if you must make such a thread and post, at least do some research 1st. Every post to this thread has dispproved most of what you say.

    Isn't that the very purpose of a message board, to discuss and learn things?
    However you're wrong, I still believe most of the stuff i'm saying is correct.
    I still don't consider the HD3 and HD5 to directly support MP3s as Sony claims.
    The fact that the files before and after transfer are not the same is the best proof there is. And no, OMG is not just a wrapper. Just fire any hexeditor and compare both files to see that they don't have any bytes in common anymore.

    About Drag'n'drop, well i'm happy to read on this thread that a program allows you to do it. I'm apparently not the only one who discovers this now though.

    > As for the PSP, the music goes on memory sticks which are only useable on memory stick compatible devices - most if not all are Sony products! so thats why they don't have DRM with PSP

    Nonsense. Because you can hook the MemoryStick to a PC and copy to and from it, exactly like you would do for a HDD.
    So they don't care for piracy in this case?
    Also, you can transfer/copy files from a MS to another MS via PC with no problem whatsoever; it's exactly what Sony doesn't want users to do with the DRM protection on their HDD players.
    Have a friend with a PSP? Hand him you MS and he can play the tracks straight away.
    On the other hand, try to give a friend with a HD3 a file from your own HD3, it won't work.

    Do not think i'm biased against Sony and their new DAP though. As a matter of fact, I was seriously considering getting a HD5H, but such DRM protection, the fact that all the tags have to be clean otherwise the organisation will be a mess on the HDD and the fact that you cannot navigate by folder on the unit got me thinking twice about it...

    Later,

    Alcahest
     
  11. kourosh

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    so why is your tv not hidef compatible(klv-32m1,klv-32mrx1)both sets are compatible through component!! sky hidef boxes will have component as well as hdmi as sky confirmed you will be ok to recieve HIGH-DEF through component and its not sony's fault these sets have been out over a year and well before sky decided on there hi def boxes and connections :rolleyes:
     
  12. David Mackenzie

    David Mackenzie
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    You're right, it does show 720p and 1080i over Component (and very good they look too).

    My problem is that the American version actually includes a DVI-I HDCP compatible connector for HDTV, that was taken out of the European version, creating this little problem. Sony then gave a cop-out response - "well, you can watch Euro1080 channel on it".
     
  13. mrtbag

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    At the time the product was ordered for Europe HDMI had not been confirmed as the 'connection' of choice for UK HDTV. Should they have just inlcuded all the options?
     
  14. David Mackenzie

    David Mackenzie
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    No, they should have left the specification closer to the US (and possibly Japanese) version and left the DVI on instead of giving the European market cut-down stuff.
     
  15. kourosh

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    but the american market is totally different they have hidef tv so they could include the connections whats the point of having the connections before they even knew what was going to happen as i said these tv came out over a year ago and prob 2yrs or so before they where designed 2years ago there was no need for hdmi or dvi its not just sony but a whole lot of other company's but at least your set is compatible think of the poor people that wont be able to watch hidef on there lcd or plasma screens :thumbsup: ;)
     
  16. David Mackenzie

    David Mackenzie
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    Well, ultimately I did pay good money for a unit that's been deliberately downgraded. LCD TVs are not disposable items - I do resent having to buy another so soon (if I want HD).
     
  17. kourosh

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    how can you say its been deliberatley downgraded :confused: when the tv was built there there was no need for hdmi or dvi in this country you forget (as i keep saying and i dont know what part you dont understand)america has had hidef for a few years now so it would make sense to put the connections on tv's over there but why put a connection on a set when it wasnt needed (2 years ago) :suicide:
     
  18. David Mackenzie

    David Mackenzie
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    There IS a need for HDMI and DVI in this country - *I* need it! :) Right now my DVD player is capped to 480p resolution instead of outputting at 720p as it does over its DVI connection.
     
  19. kourosh

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    of course now there is but we didnt need them 2 years ago when they started making the sets how long have you had the set cant you sell it :confused:
     
  20. extremelydodgy

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    Actually, this oft-mentioned "look, the HDx have drag & drop too!" posts annoy me as a bit of a con more than anything else.


    The sole reason this badly put together program was added to Sonicstage is that Sonicstage can't have anything dropped onto the display window to transfer compatible files. iRiver Plus (for the DRM'd iRivers... obviously the UMS iRivers have native drag & drop) does, iTunes does, Rio Music Manager does, Creative Mediasource does.


    Note that Music Transfer still requires that you have the entire Sony DRM suite loaded. It's not a single program that magically removes the Sonicstage restrictions. It does not turn the HD1/3/5 into a self-databasing player. It simply inelegantly tacks on a feature that ALL other major competing players have as standard incorporated into their sync software. With very recent versions of Sonicstage, you can now finally drag & drop onto the library (but still not the player), but it's deadly slow.


    Taking a simple example, I can connect a Creative Zen and iPod onto the same PC, grab a handful of tunes by Ctrl-Click in iTunes library and drag & drop directly onto the Zen in Creative Mediasource, from iTunes. Mediasource shows me what's transferring. I can do exactly the same thing in reverse. I can select some tunes in the Mediasource library and drag & drop directly onto the iPod icon in iTunes. Now that is drag & drop (well, actual UMS drag & drop is real drag & drop, but this is the next best thing).


    See, drag & drop in other players, you can actually see what's in it. With the Music Transfer, you can't, which leaves you shuttling between Sonicstage and MT to see what you have loaded already. It's crash-prone too. A truly crappy tool, for those who haven't seen better.
     
  21. David Mackenzie

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    I've had it since September, 2004. I've had my HDMI equipped player since February, 2004. The set's not 2 years old - it's far more recent.
     
  22. watchinthewheel

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    all true, but i still think that the hd3 and hd5 would destroy an ipod or zen in a side by side audio comparison its a case of what you want more, ease of use or sound quality personaly i put up with ss and dont complain because the hd3 is such a great audio player.
     
  23. David Mackenzie

    David Mackenzie
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    I'm not 100% on the Zen - but my new HD5 is light years ahead over the audio output of the iPod.
     
  24. kourosh

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    well yeah its only 8 months i dont know what circumstances you have but would it not be better if you sold your set now so you wont loose so much money on it there is a new range of sony lcd coming out in july-aug with hdmi on them and alot of the older sets will drop in price :confused: only a thought :rolleyes:
     
  25. extremelydodgy

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    Yeah... the low impedance falloff is a well publicised issue. It's easy for me to get around, whereupon the iPod sounds better simply because I'm using better headphones which are better powered by the iPod. The Sennheiser HD25-1, Sony Qualia 010, etc... the iPod offers more dynamic power than the HD3 or 5. Take away the sound advantage, what have you got on the HD3/5? battery (which is actually a hindrance for me, especially with the murky display on the HD3) and the display remote (which IS good, I use it all the time when I'm using the Sonys) and an EQ or bass/treble control that works (OK, so that's a definite plus). The HD3/5 requires that the volume be really cranked (and I'm not using the European versions) for many of the good phones out there, and because the amp's not powering the phones properly the dynamic range is severely restricted.


    Which is a better *audio player* though? Cleaner, more authoritative sound when you bypass the fall-off issue, better codec support, lossless, excellent sync abilities, vastly superior playlisting, two-way syncing... there is just no comparison if you think about it.
     

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