Answered SONY 300ES or EPSON10000 or Wait for HDR???

Yes that's what I mean they were designed to look good. I wonder what happens when you play any Bluray?
 
Yes that's what I mean they were designed to look good. I wonder what happens when you play any Bluray?

You won't get HDR on bluray. Only on UHD Bluray.

These demos were not "designed to look good". They represent what you'll get with UHD Bluray when the same movie is mastered to make use of HDR.
 
Yes understand but I thought HDR would have some impact on any content even though they don't have the specs?? I was told by a sales man as such but I had my doubts...
 
Looking at the same scene side by side the original looks the same as HDR sample?
 
definitely different
 
Yes understand but I thought HDR would have some impact on any content even though they don't have the specs?? I was told by a sales man as such but I had my doubts...

Whoever told you this was wrong. You can only watch content in HDR if it is mastered for HDR, otherwise it will look completely wrong. Same thing if you force HDR content to be watched in SDR.

So you'll be able to watch UHD Bluray or Amazon Prime in HDR (if your display supports it), but you can't watch bluray or normal HDTV in HDR.

This is what HDMI 2.0a brings: the ability for the source and display to communicate so that the display can switch to the appropriate mode automatically if it supports HDR, or the source can convert the content - or rather only send the SDR layer - to be displayed in SDR if the display doesn't support HDR.

If you don't have HDMI 2.0 in both source and display, you can still display HDR content (as long as at least the display supports HDR) but you have to force the correct mode manually. This is what Ricky is doing.
 
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hmm I shall question the sales guy again as if HDR will look completely wrong in forced mode then I will not fork out the extra cash for the 520. I might just wait and see what JVC will have to offer next month.
 
hmm I shall question the sales guy again as if HDR will look completely wrong in forced mode then I will not fork out the extra cash for the 520. I might just wait and see what JVC will have to offer next month.

This has nothing to do with the projector.

The 520ES or the new JVCs will look fine in forced mode as long as the content is mastered for HDR, ie UHD Bluray, Amazon Prime HDR, the HDR demos Ricky has tested, etc.

No HDR projector will be able to show an SDR source (like a standard bluray or standard HDTV) in HDR. Forcing the mode in this situation will only show something that's wrong.

Although a non HDR projector will be able to show HDR content properly as there is an SDR layer even in HDR content (think something similar to the DTS core in DTS HD tracks), an HDR projector cannot turn SDR content into HDR. Whoever told you this is wrong.

The content has to be mastered in HDR to be able to be shown properly on an HDR projector. Forcing HDR only works with HDR content played from a source which isn't HDMI 2.0a compatible. If the source is HDMI 2.0a compliant, the display will automatically switch to SDR.
 
it did not sound right to me either I feel they just want the sale.
 
Anyone know what scene / chapter that is from in life of pi?
want to check it out

From the pictures non hdr looks washed out and HDR looks calibrated, so be interesting to have a look to see
 
Anyone know what scene / chapter that is from in life of pi?
want to check it out

From the pictures non hdr looks washed out and HDR looks calibrated, so be interesting to have a look to see

01:05:51 Life of Pi is 1 image I posted above to show original against the HDR/sample:)
 
@bandyka: I stand corrected, apparently there is a kind of conversion feature in the 520ES to convert SDR to HDR. I have no idea how they can get good results, but I'm sure Ricky will let us know when/if he has a chance to test. So the dealer you told you it was possible wasn't wrong.

Here is the review which mentions it: A Review of the Sony VPL-VW520ES 4K Projector -

"First of all, the VW520ES actually also performs a series of internal content adjustments that allow it to “upscale” even non-HDR (SDR) content so that it emerges on your projection screen with a sharper level of contrast and a more richly precise pattern of light to dark shading.

This particular technology looks great for certain types of native 4K movies and even manages to look good in upscaled HD content. "
 
@bandyka: I stand corrected, apparently there is a kind of conversion feature in the 520ES to convert SDR to HDR. I have no idea how they can get good results, but I'm sure Ricky will let us know when/if he has a chance to test. So the dealer you told you it was possible wasn't wrong.

Here is the review which mentions it: A Review of the Sony VPL-VW520ES 4K Projector -

"First of all, the VW520ES actually also performs a series of internal content adjustments that allow it to “upscale” even non-HDR (SDR) content so that it emerges on your projection screen with a sharper level of contrast and a more richly precise pattern of light to dark shading.

This particular technology looks great for certain types of native 4K movies and even manages to look good in upscaled HD content. "

That is interesting, as that is not my experience. I am playing with the demo VW520 at this point, and have done testing on the HDR.

HDR is available if a UHD/4K signal is feed in, and then you have the chance to set on/off or auto. I have tried various UltraHD content from BT, Amazon, Netflix, Sony Streamer and various other DIY, downloaded clips. All of these look horrible when HDR is forced (the image looks totally wrong, with oversaturated colours, and extremely dark image crushing all the dark information, and no highlights). I guess I will need to get the disc and read the manual to see if I am missing anything, but certainly I have not seen this function despite playing with lots of combinations of settings...

For all those trying to compare the Life of Pi pictures. It is not worth the time to do so. It is not the best demo sample (even on the Samsung TVs), I used a phone to take the picture, and it is nowhere near what I am seeing here. It was posted just to show that it appears the Sony correctly resolves the image with a HDR source, that is all...
 
That is interesting, as that is not my experience. I am playing with the demo VW520 at this point, and have done testing on the HDR.

HDR is available if a UHD/4K signal is feed in, and then you have the chance to set on/off or auto. I have tried various UltraHD content from BT, Amazon, Netflix, Sony Streamer and various other DIY, downloaded clips. All of these look horrible when HDR is forced (the image looks totally wrong, with oversaturated colours, and extremely dark image crushing all the dark information, and no highlights). I guess I will need to get the disc and read the manual to see if I am missing anything, but certainly I have not seen this function despite playing with lots of combinations of settings...

For all those trying to compare the Life of Pi pictures. It is not worth the time to do so. It is not the best demo sample (even on the Samsung TVs), I used a phone to take the picture, and it is nowhere near what I am seeing here. It was posted just to show that it appears the Sony correctly resolves the image with a HDR source, that is all...

Well, what you describe is what I would have expected, but the review I linked to seemed to suggest something different. Let us know if you find out!

I'm glad you say something about comparing the pictures, trying to compare HDR footage with a non HDR picture on a phone viewed on a non HDR PC monitor is really pointless.

It would be like evaluating speakers on a mobile phone :)

But I agree it looks like the HDR clip is played properly.
 
Its not about comparing - that shot looked washed out on life of pi SDR
Its easy to check if its washed out / how washed out it is etc - that is all, I was interested to have a look.
 
Thanks for sharing I won't complain then. I was wondering if there was no such feature then why can you "force" HDR processing what was the point but if it does some magic it makes sense now. Questions is how well?

@bandyka: I stand corrected, apparently there is a kind of conversion feature in the 520ES to convert SDR to HDR. I have no idea how they can get good results, but I'm sure Ricky will let us know when/if he has a chance to test. So the dealer you told you it was possible wasn't wrong.

Here is the review which mentions it: A Review of the Sony VPL-VW520ES 4K Projector -

"First of all, the VW520ES actually also performs a series of internal content adjustments that allow it to “upscale” even non-HDR (SDR) content so that it emerges on your projection screen with a sharper level of contrast and a more richly precise pattern of light to dark shading.

This particular technology looks great for certain types of native 4K movies and even manages to look good in upscaled HD content. "
 
Well, what you describe is what I would have expected, but the review I linked to seemed to suggest something different. Let us know if you find out!

I'm glad you say something about comparing the pictures, trying to compare HDR footage with a non HDR picture on a phone viewed on a non HDR PC monitor is really pointless.

It would be like evaluating speakers on a mobile phone :)

But I agree it looks like the HDR clip is played properly.

No way I can I see it working, other than with a HDR source at the moment. Manual also only refers to use with HDR encoded material too.
 
Thanks for sharing I won't complain then. I was wondering if there was no such feature then why can you "force" HDR processing what was the point but if it does some magic it makes sense now. Questions is how well?
I don't believe it does do that.

It is very useful to force things as sometimes EDIDs do not work perfectly meaning parts of a handshake fail, I.e. 3D display/24p not being recognised etc.
 
Thanks for sharing I won't complain then. I was wondering if there was no such feature then why can you "force" HDR processing what was the point but if it does some magic it makes sense now. Questions is how well?

Well, according to Ricky, there is no magic at all and no reference to the feature in the manual, so you might want to ask your dealer what he means exactly so we can find out if it's possible or not, but right now it looks like I was right. So I stand corrected, I wasn't wrong :).
 
Well, according to Ricky, there is no magic at all and no reference to the feature in the manual, so you might want to ask your dealer what he means exactly so we can find out if it's possible or not, but right now it looks like I was right. So I stand corrected, I wasn't wrong :).
Would love to report some magic, but definitely can't find it. Given up for tonight, but get back to it in a few days, when I get a chance.

Not sure what the review is actually talking about? The review seems fairly non-tech to me, makes me wonder how much technical analysis they did of the projector?
 
Clearly no technical analysis, I'll just dismiss the whole review, that was the only interesting point in it.
 
Would love to report some magic, but definitely can't find it. Given up for tonight, but get back to it in a few days, when I get a chance.

Not sure what the review is actually talking about? The review seems fairly non-tech to me, makes me wonder how much technical analysis they did of the projector?
Or if they actually had the projector, or just saw it somewhere or at a show, and misinterpreted some of the marketing info. Maybe they should actually be talking about Reality Creation and not HDR?
 
OOK so all very nice and confusing, called the dealer and apparently in about two weeks time they will have them in stock, I shall go in and see myself. Meanwhile eagerly waiting more info on here.
 
OOK so all very nice and confusing, called the dealer and apparently in about two weeks time they will have them in stock, I shall go in and see myself. Meanwhile eagerly waiting more info on here.

I will try and get more information up over the weekend, but currently out on site on installs for the next couple of days.

By the way, I forgot to mention, you said the up-scaling looked very grainy. Make sure Reality Creation is either set low, or is off, as this can over process the image on certain material, and produce the appearance of grain:)
 
Yes, since I've got a 40ES as a temporary unit which produces the same graininess so I've had the chance to work out the best settings so now I know that is not an issue. Thanks for the tip though.
 

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