Sonos is working on 24bit support

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi Stereo Systems & Separates' started by kristoffer, Sep 5, 2014.

  1. kristoffer

    kristoffer
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  2. Craig uk

    Craig uk
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    Sonos have been quite clear that 24bit would not be supported, the main reason being that in their opinion there is no audible benefit/sound improvement to be offered by 24 bit recordings.

    I will be amazed if they do a U turn on this one.
     
  3. kristoffer

    kristoffer
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    Did you read the link? In it Sonos says the following: "“It’s a big technical challenge for us, but it’s one we’ve definitely been working on,” explained Spence. “We’re looking at overcoming the limitations of streaming 24-bit in the home, as there seems to be a lot of momentum around it at the moment, so stay tuned.”
     
  4. Craig uk

    Craig uk
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    Let's hope they can overcome the technical challenges, there's certainly growing interest in "hi res" music, its just that Sonos have always been of the opinion that its a waste of time, I suppose competition in the marketplace from Bluesound & Samsung have forced their change of opinion!
     
  5. amcluesent

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    Hmm, technical challenge? There's been streamers capable of playing back 24bit files since 2006. Sounds like marketing foo
     
  6. Craig uk

    Craig uk
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    I assume its something to do with extra storage required for 24bit, I'm pretty sure Sonos has limitations to how many individual files the system is capable of indexing, originally based on heavily compressed mp3 sizes. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't remeber Sonos working with 16/44.1 when the system was first launched?
    Bigger files will reduce how many albums/files the system can access. Most people would want to play their entire collection through the system and for those who have a large collection that could be a problem, especially if they want high quality!
     
  7. BlueWizard

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    I think it probably has something to do with underestimating the market and now having to pay catch-up.

    Though when you are among the first, it is easy for others to use you as a base and see where to improve.

    Also, I suspect there, especially in the beginning, is a considerable design cycle. From idea to product takes a while.

    I suspect, if CD had waited a couple of years, they would all be 24b/???k. Today, I don't think you can even buy 16b/44.1K DAC, I suspect that if that is what you want, you simply take a low cost better DAC and scale it down.

    Still, I would rather have them lag the market a bit and deliver a much higher quality product in the end. Better to lead the crowd a bit late, than join the crowd a bit too early.

    Just rambling.

    Steve/bluewizard
     
  8. Craig uk

    Craig uk
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    I don't think there is much doubt that Sonos is market leader in the connected audio sector. They have a very loyal customer base who don't want to be left behind, but personally I think its more about Sonos realising that in order to secure new customers their system has to offer music in all manor of bit rates, the markelace is more crowded than ever & dropping the entry price of £209 down to £169 (by removing need for bridge) and offering 24 bit support, are two very good ways of staying on top.
     
  9. kristoffer

    kristoffer
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    Well, that was short since they have redacted the statement. Sonos talked to Danish site Recordere.dk and marketing director Fiede Schillmoeller was quoted for saying ( loosely translated by me) "No, we are not working on 24 bit as we believe it to be a gimmick and a way to sell customers the white album , yet again".
    What a shame.
    SONOS: Nej. Vi arbejder ikke på 24 bit
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2014
  10. Craig uk

    Craig uk
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    As suspected. I do question what the benefit would be anyway, IMO 24 bit audio can only really appreciated when played on a proper HiFi system, Sonos have never aimed to compete in that market which is precisely why they have been so successful. They identified a gap in the market early and delivered a versatile wireless system years ahead of its time.
    I wouldn't rule it out completely though.
     
  11. amcluesent

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    Now it's been officially denied, it must be true.:rolleyes:
     
  12. Brennie

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    WIMP....
    Something I saw on another forum...
    And then there is this.....
    Are you willing to pay twice as much to stream in lossless?

    Late last night doing my back exercises I decided to compare streaming services. Spotify is my default, I recreated a playlist in Beats Music and then I did the same thing in WIMP, and I was wowed.

    Now let's be clear, getting lossless music from Norway ain't that easy, there are streaming interruptions, which is why I decided to sync/download the tracks, and they were a REVELATION!

    I'm a big believer we get the music we deserve, that the reason compressed beat-driven music dominates is it's the only thing that sounds good on the listening devices we're employing. In other words, you're not gonna get a new James Taylor if you've got to listen to compressed music on your phone via earbuds. But if you improved the quality of the sound would that not only make people take more care in the creation of sounds, but also branch out and put an effort into that which today is so often a second-class citizen?

    Now I'm not talking 256kbps, never mind 320. Lossless is equivalent to CD. And we can debate all day long the difference between analog and digital, whether vinyl is superior to CDs, but the truth is despite being tactile, vinyl is not portable, unless you're at home it's a pain in the ass, and even there...

    You hear instruments you didn't know were there when you listen in lossless. They become rich, three-dimensional.

    Are you willing to pay for this privilege?

    In other words, if you're refusing to pay for Spotify Premium, making a ton of excuses about the sound, are you willing to pay double for WIMP? Despite so few investing in Pono, despite you trumpeting it as the solution, it's really not, because files are already dead, we live in the land of streaming, get over it.

    And when one entity pushes the ball forward, it forces all competitors to follow in their footsteps, because so much in tech is a commodity, and if you're substandard, you fail.

    So this is less about WIMP and more about music in general. Who knows what streaming service will survive, but if WIMP lifts all boats sound-wise that's good for everybody.

    In other words, the techies are not our enemy, don't listen to the Luddites and the wannabes who want to believe that music will only be healthy when we return to the days of yore, when you paid ten bucks for an album in a physical format and there was a middle class of acts, despite most music makers being unable to participate.

    Remember that canard that Napster meant no one would make any music, it would drive all players out? What a bunch of crap that was. Our problem is too much music, even if something is good, oftentimes you cannot find it under the tsunami of product.

    Boomers will remember buying behemoth stereos to get closer to the sound, bringing their friends over to see their jaws drop, seeing that Maxell ad in every magazine.

    The song remains the same. Quality sound is a revelation.

    Once you've got WIMP lossless, you want better headphones, you want to spread the word, all the while having a smile on your face.

    From MusicAlly Daily Bulletin:

    "WiMP takes its high-def streaming service to US and UK as Tidal

    Scandinavian streaming music service WiMP is launching in the US and UK, and sensibly, has come up with a new brand that has less connotations of weakness. The new service will be called Tidal, and it launches in the autumn. The key selling point will be audio quality: 25m tracks at lossless quality, with 75,000 HD videos and editorial content thrown in too, like the WiMP HiFi service in Scandinavia. This will come with a price to match: $19.99 / £19.99 a month for subscribers, who'll be able to access Tidal through web browsers and iOS / Android apps. 'Initially, streaming was all about access to everything, everywhere, which many services now provide. Tidal is not just another one of those providers,' said CEO Andy Chen. 'Rather than remaining in background to some other activity, music deserves to take center stage with quality at its heart.' The key question now is how Tidal will be marketed. With established rivals already battling for telco deals, entering the US and UK with
    a splash may require some clever partnerships on Tidal's part.

    Link – TIDAL - True High Fidelity Music Streaming"
     
  13. Craig uk

    Craig uk
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    I use Qobuzz HiFi streaming. £19.99 per month which is CD quality (16 bit 44.1 kHz). Qobuzz is far better quality than Spotify, Deezer & all the other services which max out at 320kb...

    Yes its twice the price but it sounds twice as good, its important for me to hear the music in the best way possible and when it comes to streaming Qobuzz are in a league of their own. Plus they offer discounts on 24bit studio master downloads.
     
  14. TomScrut

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    I use Qobuz too. Very good IMO.

    As far as Sonos goes, I dont care if they properly support high res in terms of it actually playing it back in high res. I just dont want to have a 16/44.1 copy of something in case my other half wants to listen to it downstairs. If it would take a high res and down sample for playback that would get them a sale from me for a zoneamp or whatever they call them nowadays!
     
  15. Craig uk

    Craig uk
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    Yes I agree, we got Sonos as a second system really. Its great for parties but mainly we use it for listening to new music on Qobuz and listening to radio, some great stations on tunein. Any new music that we like I will then buy, usually downloaded from Qobuz themselves in 24bit if available. Any serious listening is always done our main system which obviously handles HD files. I've tried all the Sonos components at home but for what I need we settled with a couple of play 1's. I truly believe that every Sonos component offers great value for money. Though I don't see any need for 24bit on Sonos, who themselves have been on record saying there's no audible benefit to be had from it... that's probably true on their system but certainly not the case with a well crafted HiFi (which Sonos was never intended to replace).

    Since having the Play 1 and signing up to Qobuz I realise just how much good music I was missing out on, only problem is finding the time to listen to it all. Sonos can be had for the bargain price £160 now as they have removed the need for bridge.
     
  16. Member 566779

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    Qobuz is excellent but browsing the library can be a real pain... hopefully they resolve their money issues and come out of the otherside... but deezer coming into the CD quality streaming market as well for Sonos so finally an alternative.

    Sonos is limited to 16 bit but I dont think they care... its mainly for background listening in most households and generally hi-res files where people care is going into their dedicated hi-fi with streamer + dac... rather than just using a Connect. We still do a few house holds where the Hi-Fi room has sonos in it as well just for zone grouping during parties.

    Seems blue sound is not kicking off as fast as would be assumed... guess most not overly fussed or do not wish to ditch their sonos and have an odd zone in the house.
     
  17. TomScrut

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    Yeah the apps on both Windows and Android are a bit rubbish. Not sure about Sonos
     
  18. Member 566779

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    Just as bad... installed in on the first day it was released deleted by the end of the day... came back a bit more recently and still not great... Google play has been fine around the house though... Dont think the Wifey is so fused about not having higher res music :).
     
  19. Craig uk

    Craig uk
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    I've had one or two issues with Sonos not allowing access to music service via Qobuz but nothing too bad. Personally I prefer the interface on Qobuz over Deezer, it integrates well with Sonos app IMO.
     

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