Sonos, AV receiver or ITunes Remote & airplay for multiple room home cinema system?

[Newbie3]

Firstly I appreciate that some of these questions might branch across a few forums, and there are loads of them! But I thought I would get start by putting all my questions down, hopefully someone out there want to join in the fun of design a new home cinema. So please feel free to give your opinion on any element.

I have sketched out and atached the cable layout that I am intending on using with a ruff, not to scale diagram of the open-plan kitchen and Tv room. Hopefully this explains a lot?

Diagram Key
· Blue wires – Cat6
· Orange wires – HDMI
· Bright Red (thick) – HDMI over Cat 6
· Dark Red (thin line) Speaker cable
· Green ( line out)
· Black (line in)

Because of the room layout, I thought there was an opportunity to use one of the kitchens speakers to upgrade from 5.1 to 7.1. Was going to use the following speakers:
· Front L&R and centre - B&W CWM664
· Sides - B&W CCM662 to angle the sound.
· Back – B&W CCM382
· All other speakers – B&W CCM 362.
· Bathroom - CCM664SR


Questions

So where I start to get a bit confused is where I should be running my music library from. I want to keep things as simple as possible, without having to switch between a bunch of apps and remotes to get all the speakers playing?

The problem I think I have with this current setup is, to get everything playing I would have to

Option 1
1) Turn a song on my iPad, (streaming form iTunes match) use airplay to push to airport express.
2) Turn on the speaker zones I want within the sonos app
3) Switch my AV Receiver source to the sonos connect.
4) Turn on the Zone 2 on my AV Receiver on.
5) And select the option/setting within the amp to distribute music to all 7.1 speakers

This sounds too complicated for my fiancé, which is my benchmark for the systems design. Any suggestions to simplify?

That leads me on too, Product recommendations.

1) What AV receiver should I get
a. it needs to have a second powered speaker zone to run the 2nd kitchen speaker
b. Also must have 7.1 channel stereo options so that I can get music playing out of all the speakers.
c. Is there an AV receiver out there, which I could programme to, by default be set up for TV sound/ movies. Then automatically recognised that when I change source to the sonos all the setting change to play 7.1 stereo? With the second zone playing? ( or even better as soon as the sonos starts is switches over to that source? When it stops switches back to 7.1 tv sound?)
d. Can I get this all for under £1000
2) Network switch to handle my setup?
3) Cat6a or 7, where to get them from in the UK
4) HDMI – to CAT6 converter with IR (seem to be so many out there)
5) B&W CWM664 as centre channel speaker? Anyone used this?

 

[dante01]

So, you want a main 7.1 room plus another stereo second zone? This would need either a 9.1 AV receiver or a 7.1 receiver plus additional powered stereo zone. If running 5.1 in the main room and a second passive stereo zone from a single AV receiver then that receiver would need to be 7.1. Receivers with additional zone capabilities can run the additional zone or zones independently of the main zone. You can have audio sourced via a receivers network capabilities playing in the second zone while watching a movie in the main room or without any audio in the main room.

What format and file types are you wanting to distribute via the amp to your additional zone? Note that AV receivers can only output audio sourced via their analogue inputs or via audio sourced via their network port in the second zone. Audio sourced via digital inputs such as S/PDIF or HDMI cannot be output to the second zone. If using the Sonos then it would nned to be connected to the AV receiver via an analogue connection if wanting to output its audio to a second zone.

A centralised NAS makes it easier to share audio files between the main and second zone, but you may lose some of the features you associate with your Sonos?

DLNA may be a better option than Airplay? Although most receivers now have both. Airplay wouldn't be possible directly in conjunction with a NAS without also having an iOS device or PC/Mac running iTunes present.


RE: Cat7? You'd be well catered for with Cat5e or Cat6.


There are now a few AV receivers on the market with built in HDMI matrix capabilities. Such receivers allow the receiver to matrix their HDMI inputs so that a source can be output to another HDMI zone while another source is being used in the main room. I don't know if this would be of interest to you?

 

[logiciel]

DLNA may be a better option than Airplay? Although most receivers now have both.

Name me a receiver that has both, then explain what they are.

 

[DigitalPlumber]

Av receiver hands down! however behind a very fast ethernet network installation.

 

[dante01]

Name me a receiver that has both, then explain what they are.

Just one?

How about the Denon AVR1713 or just about any AV receiver costing £250 upwards.

Maybe question my credentials when you actual know the answer?

If you need to find out what DLNA is then maybe look here:
Consumer Home

or:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Living_Network_Alliance

There's also info on Airplay here:
Apple (United Kingdom) - AirPlay - Play content from iOS devices on Apple TV.

and:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirPlay


By the way, the OP requested I reply to this thread via PM. What's you excuse apart from trying to be a?

 

[DigitalPlumber]

Onkyo nr616 I have one it does a brilliant job of switching and zone distrbution.

 

[logiciel]

Maybe question my credentials when you actual know the answer?

What on earth are you talking about?
I don''t know what your credentials are, or how they are relevant to my post.
That requested only information, and didn't question anything that was personal to you.
If I'd known the information I wouldn't have made the request for it.
The DNLA link tells me nothing; the Airplay turns out to be something familiar under other names.
I was interested to know which AVRs had the features - you've given one - that's fine.
xppaul's Onky has the second feature, so has mine without that name, so there are two more.
I've removed a couple of words from your post that were against forum rule 1.
I don't usually apply the rule when it affects me but this time the comment was too irrelevant to leave.

 

[dante01]

I appear to have misinterpreted your post? I took it as being a flippant attempt at patronisation and didn't realise that you were posing a serious question.

I can only offer you my sincerest apologies.


I think Onkyo the only mainstream manufacturing still not to include Apple's Airplay on their network enabled AV receivers?

Both Airplay and DLNA are takes on uPnP, and this in turn is a form of local area file sharing. Both require servers to serve the files, in the case of Airplay this is via iTunes or interpretations of it on iOS devices. In the case of DLNA, it uses uPnP server applications that satisfy the criteria set out for DLNA. Both protocols provide a standardised means by which to stream media over a local network, but only if all the devices utilised comply with the standards for compliance. In the case of AV receivers that incorporate Airplay, the receiver cannot navigate the file hiearchy of the media server to pick and choose which of the files to play, not without using a device such as an Apple TV. You'd basically be very limited as to what control you have over the media via Airplay and you realistically have to use an iOS device as the control agent. DLNA on the other hand allows you to navigate folders and browse the files stored on the server or servers on your network and gives you full control of the playback via the receiver itself.

Another issue with Airplay is that even if storing your iTunes library on a NAS, you cannot run iTunes or an Airplay server on a NAS. You are forced to use either an iOS device or an instance of iTunes elsewhere on the network to actually serve the files to the AV receiver. Airplay is heavily dependant on either the presence of iOS devices or it need iTunes up and running on a PC or a Mac in order to stream anything to a capable receiver. Airplay is also limited to the file formats that meet Apple's approval and comply with iTunes compatibility. For instance, neither MKV or FLAC files can be streamed via Airplay.

I do maintain an iTunes library on a NAS, but I mainly use DLNA to access this library rather than Airplay. I can use the library for my Apple TV if I have iTunes up and running on my Mac, but if I wanted to play audio via Airplay on my AV receiver then I'd need to start the playback on my Mac via iTunes or by using an iOS device to play the file and stream it to the AV receiver. DLNA allows me to run a DLNA server on the NAS and this allows me to access media files stored on it without having to also involve my Apple Mac, iTunes, my Apple TV or an iOS device.

Airplay is too Apple centric to be a real alternative to DLNA. It is only of any use because Apple didn't want to support DLNA so reinvented the wheel. Airplay has no use at all without Apple manufactured devices or iTunes and that is the opinion of a 25 year Mac user who's never owned a Windows box


Again, my utmost apologies for my earlier blunder

 

[logiciel]

You're too generous but those comments are very much appreciated - thank you.
We do get attempts at patronisation on the forum and it's one of my jobs as mod to deal with them.
For that reason as well as the matter of principle I try to keep my posts both brief and unambiguous.
Unfortunately I failed on that occasion, with my requests for information.
Also I may have misunderstood Airplay with reference the Onkyos, so my apologies in turn if that's so.

 

[DigitalPlumber]

Have xbmc installed 12.0 witch supports airplay and with your onkyo and as its all set-up correctly over your nextwork you can streem using air-play. Simple

 

[Newbie3]

I

I do maintain an iTunes library on a NAS, but I mainly use DLNA to access this library rather than Airplay. I can use the library for my Apple TV if I have iTunes up and running on my Mac, but if I wanted to play audio via Airplay on my AV receiver then I'd need to start the playback on my Mac via iTunes or by using an iOS device to play the file and stream it to the AV receiver. DLNA allows me to run a DLNA server on the NAS and this allows me to access media files stored on it without having to also involve my Apple Mac, iTunes, my Apple TV or an iOS device.

Airplay is too Apple centric to be a real alternative to DLNA. It is only of any use because Apple didn't want to support DLNA so reinvented the wheel. Airplay has no use at all without Apple manufactured devices or iTunes and that is the opinion of a 25 year Mac user who's never owned a Windows box


Again, my utmost apologies for my earl(

Thanks for all the posts,

Dante01 how do manage your NAS to make sure it always is uptodate with music you buy? Especially if you buy something off your iPad or something?

 

[dante01]

I don't buy music online, but if I did then I'd load the files up onto my NAS in much, if not the exact same way as I load the audio I rip from the CDs I buy.

I personally use iTunes to maintain a music library on the NAS. This lets me keep the library tidy without me having to do much. iTunes uses a very intuative file structure Music?Artist/Album/Audio Tracks.

I mount the NAS from my Mac (Pervert!). I then launch iTunes. iTunes is configured to use the Music folder within the Media partition on my NAS drive as its library. It is also configured so that it moves/copies any files added to iTunes to the iTunes Library. Add anything to iTunes and the files are automatically copied on over to the NAS. I can also simply add the files manually, but such manual additions wouldn't show up on iTunes and would only be applicable to DLNA and not Airplay.

 

[logiciel]

Another genuine question - what happens to audio quality during all this flipping from one source to another?

 

[dante01]

Another genuine question - what happens to audio quality during all this flipping from one source to another?

Nothing. The audios quality would be dependant of its original encoding. The transfer is digital so there's no signal loss or degradation. It like sending an email or posting pics of your kids on facebook

 

[logiciel]

Thanks - that's what I expected - it's all about 0s and 1s so nothing can get lost, but posters are always claiming about other contexts that in practice they do.

 

[dante01]

Thanks - that's what I expected - it's all about 0s and 1s so nothing can get lost, but posters are always claiming about other contexts that in practice they do.

Well, I could complicate things, but I'm one of the nice guys who lives in the real world and tends not to theorise too much

Haven't you heard of digital snake oil?

 

[Swynol]

I've done something similar recently. I'm using logitechs squeeze server for my music. The squeezes lave is installed on my server where my music is and then I have 3 sound cards in the machine. I then run 3x squeeze slaves labelled kitchen, living room, bathroom. Each one outputs to speakers, living room is a 5.1avr, bathroom and kitchen are in ceilings run off a small amp. I control all the music using my iPad or iPhone using one app called ipeng. I can turn my music server on remotely using ipeng wake on LAN.
I can either have separate music in each zones or play the same in sync all over my house. Best thing is that it costs peanuts compared to sonos.

 

[logiciel]

dante01; I'd like more of that attitude in those "other contexts" that don't encounter the real world.
I haven't heard of any snake oil though.