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Son of CES 2005...

Discussion in 'TAG McLaren Audio Owners' Forum' started by GrahamMG, Jan 10, 2005.

  1. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    OK, anyone got anything to say on what actually was at CES from an IAG point of view, or was it that dull that people just got sloshed and went off with the local "Barbie" and woke up this morning to find it was actually "Ken"????
    Surely someone must have at least talked to the people manning the IAG stand and asked at least one interesting question or was it all really just to dull, either way it would be nice to know before the journo's sanitised reports hit the news stands worded carefully to justify the expense account........
     
  2. alexs2

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    I'd also be very interested to hear any feedback on this,given that news reports are limited and edited,and it would be good to hear what was actually on the stand.

    Relevant comments only please.....complaints about service etc in the relevant area of this forum,for those that wish to complain.
     
  3. Plump

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    I guess for a full report we will have to wait until Gordon gets back.

    From what I have read in internet they only rebadged everything, have nothing new at all, and there was no sign of any source component.
     
  4. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    I'm not too worried about anything new as we have done that subject to death (and the current stuff still cuts the mustard!), I am curious if they are to continue to make the stuff and where/how and for what cost.....?????? That huge warehouse with stock in it must be getting empty by now.....Mind you that DVD32R mountian isn't a listed itme for the "new" range.......
     
  5. Thunder

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    Hurry up Gordon :thumbsup:
     
  6. Dr Udo Zucker

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    Hi Graham, (as mentioned before) no further DVD32R and DVD32FLR (as we know them) can be produced as the key component, Pantera 1, is discontinued.
     
  7. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    Hi Udo.
    I was being rather subtle in my statement as I know only too well the Pantera situation which is why I was a tad puzzled about the continued listing of the DVD32FLR..... Maybe there is a far larger stock of these than the grapevine suggested ;) It would be nice if IAG did actually say what they were intending to re-manufacture as clearly the DVD32FLR would meet with some interest on just how they planned to achieve it....
     
  8. sheggsl

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    Went to the IAG stand both at LVCC and Alexis Park. Saw the Audiolab replacement for the Tag range. According to the rep I spoke with, they intend to launch the new Audiolab replacement for the 192 in a couple of months. The expected price is to be much lower. His view which I tend to agree with, is that Tag priced themselves out of the market with the 192 and in my view their ridiculous upgrade policy that cost more than buying a new processor. As an current Tag owner I will be watching the development quite closely.

    The AV Audiolab 192 looked identical to the 192 and I was told there were only a few changes to the feature set. The Chief engineer (nice guy) whose name I cannot remember is actually ex Tag who left before the collapse to join IAG, hence he is quite familiar with the whole 192 topology.

    Unfortunately the 192 was only a static display there was no telling what it sounded like. They are looking at offering additional features like HDMI down the road as upgrades, however at the moment the main focus is launching the new range

    On the whole they didn't have a huge profile at the show, however it was encouraging to see IAG displaying at 2 different locations. Also went to the Quad stand at Alexis Park, and I think IAG needs to teach these guys a few things in customer relationship management. They seem to have their head stuck so far up their behind that they were in imminent danger of disappearing up their own backside. If I ever entertained any thoughts about purchasing Quad stuff, their attitude would certainly have put me off.
     
  9. alexs2

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    Originally posted in the sticky at the top of the forum...requested to be moved here by GrahamMG.


    "From someone at the show. This brief info from the show

    IAG was at CES. Displayed was rebadaged TAG Gear, several old Audiolab pieces with new names and numbers I am not fimiliar with.

    Can we keep this on the CES (Son of) thread please?

    A question falls out of JBM007's post, are the AudioLab kit literally re-badged (i.e. stick an Audiolab badge over the TAG one) or have the front panels been re-worked (i.e. remove the silk screen printed reference to TAG)? I'm curious as that makes a difference to existing stock and the possibility of some nice bargains...... In short it is easy to just stick on an AudioLAb badge, it is rather different to strip the unit down and re-silk screen the logo's........"

    Done.
     
  10. Thunder

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    This is because they will be built in China as opposed to Huntingdon England. I cant agree as Tag were no more expensive than any other high end manufacturers, e.g Meridian, Krell, Bryston etc etc. Nearly two years on I still cant think of an AV processor at the price of the AV32RDP that has the same advanced room EQ and processing abilities. As for upgrades well nearly all the software upgrades were free and with regards to hardware, well it costs more to do (especially in man hours) so it would be. In the end it was still cheaper than buying a completely new unit. At least they offered a true upgrade path, look at Arcam, there hasnt been one upgrade worth note for theyre AV8 since launch. The AV32R is six years old and still at or near the top of the pile :)
     
  11. edward

    edward
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    Nice to see you didn't lose your sense of humour over it, Sheggs.

    In spite of your suffering, you've cheered me a little - many thanks.

    As for the outrageous pricing, remember that most of it went to the dealers. If they'd discounted by a grand or two when they saw the need, the price would have been iiresistable. Six grand just to get started put them in a space where the air was rather rare - especially when there was no high profile in the US.

    I wonder if upgrades will be backward compatible with the old AV192R - it would make sense but... Now that IAG is talking to people about this stuff, perhaps we can find out.

    Gawd! I'm checking this several times a day to find out more - sad.
     
  12. Teejoo

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    Can't we just stick to IAG CES news for one minute guys??? :lease: :lease:
     
  13. alexs2

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    Sheggsl....keep this in the appropriate part of the forum,created specifically for that reason,and not in an unrelated thread.

    I've moved your text there,so it hasn't been lost.
     
  14. RuiGil

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    More news, and quoting the site http://www.goodsound.com/features.shtml :

    "Fans of Audiolab will be thrilled to learn that the 8000 series of electronics has been redesigned and will be relaunched in 2005. Although the products are now finished in silver, they maintain the appearance and dimensions of the original 8000 series. The 8000S is a remote-controlled 60Wpc integrated amplifier that will be available for $1000. The 8000Q preamplifier ($1200), 8000P stereo power amplifier ($1200) rated at 100Wpc, and 8000M monaural power amplifier ($1200) rated at 125Wpc will also be available."

    At least a new Audiolab "Classical" Hi-Fi product line is coming to life... one good new. :clap:
    Probably one more year for a renew of the Home Cinema range and new features. :rolleyes:

    ..., quoting ultimateAV (former Stereophile Guide to Home Cinema): http://www.ultimateavmag.com/news/010605ces/ :

    "The TAG McLaren AV192R surround processor, reviewed by us in mid 2004, is again available, after a change of ownership in the TAG audio group. It's now badged as an Audiolab, but apart from a slight cosmetic alteration (a titanium rather than a black finish) appears unchanged. Nevertheless, there appears to have been some change in the production facilities, so we have requested a new sample to verify that our earlier review remains valid before renewing our recommendation."

    And that's all that I've found ... :censored:
     
  15. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    Ah ha, proper information on the show, now all we need to find out is if the insides are the same........
     
  16. Teejoo

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    I hope IAG also keeps black as a colour, so we can match it with the other Tag stuff.
     
  17. GrahamMG

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    As I have said before, that nice anodised Black finish was more difficult than paint.......and probablly dearer..... IAG are all about minimising costs to get the gear into that fast turnover market...... I've already lined up one of my suppliers to anodise bits should I need to....... :D
     
  18. Thunder

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    I have PM'd Gordon as he was posting in the video processing section last night. Hopefully he will have asked a few questions at the IAG stand :thumbsup:
     
  19. edward

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    Yeah but the obsession with stereo persists despite the more real effect from a well-done surround sound system. OK, there are still people making do with vinyl and AM radio but in a show of the "latest and greatest" and "things to come"... Why are so many still looking backwards? What will CES offer next year - crystal sets?
     
  20. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    Haven't you heard of the "retro" market :rotfl: :rotfl:
     
  21. edward

    edward
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    If they're looking backwards, do they swap their left and right channels to match? Wouldn't more channels solve their problems? Shall I start a campaign to put them straight?

    Oops! Am I straying off topic?
     
  22. alexs2

    alexs2
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    Not so much off topic as just silly.
     
  23. RuiGil

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    There is a Portuguese report of Audiolab@CES 2005, from Jose Vitor Henriques (Portuguese <=> to Ken Kessler !!!), at http://www.hificlube.net/common/ver_artigo.asp?id_artigo=525&seccao=Noticias&subseccao=Noticias

    Quoting:

    "17 Jan 2005



    Las Vegas, 6-11 JAN 05

    CES 2005: AUDIOLAB, O REGRESSO DA VELHA SENHORA

    Reportagem Internacional

    Das muitas notícias que trouxe de Las Vegas, o regresso da Audiolab é sem dúvida a minha preferida até pela ironia do destino: a Audiolab que tinha sido comprada pela TAG em 1997 inverteu agora a situação e comprou a TAG!






    Onde é que eu já vi isto com outro nome?!...
    A IAG, International Audio Group - actual proprietária da Quad e Wharfedale - anunciou que a Audiolab vai voltar ao mercado hifi no segundo trimestre de 2005. A nova gama unluirá inicialmente seis modelos, cobrindo ambas as áreas do áudo 2-canais e Home Cinema. A saber:



    Alguns dos modelos da gama Audiolab 8000
    8000S - amplificador inegrado de 60Wc/controlo remoto

    8000Q - préamplificador com controlo remoto

    8000P - amplificador estéreo de 100W

    8000M - amplificador monobloco de 125W

    8000AV - processador AV c/ entradas de linha compatível com todos os formatos 5.1 e 7.1

    8000X7 - amplificador AV 7-canais x 100W que pode ser configurado para 5 ou 6-canais (bridging)

    Os modelos serão visualmente idênticos aos «velhos» Audiolab 8000 de boa memória com um ou outro pormenor diferente, nomeadamente o acabamento cor de prata. Por dentro, serão idênticos aos modelos TAG McLaren da Série F3. Os preços não estão ainda confirmados mas consta - eu disse consta - que serão inferiores aos dos modelos Audiolab correspondentes de 1997!...

    Os modelos Home Cinema 8000AV e 8000X7 são baseados nos modelos AV30R e 700:7R da TAG McLaren respectivamente.

    Nota: A AUDIOLAB continuará a ser representada em Portugal pela DELAUDIO que garantirá junto com a casa-mãe o apoio técnico a manutenção de todo o equipamento TAG McLaren.



    José Victor Henriques

    E-mail: jvhsom@netcabo.pt"

    For English speaking persons it deserves a look, at least for the nice pictures.

    Regards,

    Rui
     
  24. mlinhares

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    The Audiolab logo is very nice on the 192.
     
  25. Teejoo

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    Indeed, it's good to see some decent pictures.
     
  26. Dr Udo Zucker

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    Hi, it's interesting to look at these pictures as it shows that some ex-Audiolab products seem really reborn, even down to their old plastic(?) 'oval' power switches. Of course I can't see inside these boxes or see if the power LEDs now line up J.

    What surprises me even more, is that these products even in their improved TMA versions didn't sell, whatever price we (=the former TMA management) put on, even lowering prices below 1997 ex-Audiolab prices. It had something to do, we were told, that home cinema had taken over from the stereo market, at least in Europe and the USA. It might also have to do with the fact that most of these products were not remote controlled and none had low-energy standby.



    Furthermore, these ex-Audiolab products, inherited by TMA from ex-Audiolab, were not anymore economical to make in the UK as the used boards designed for manual component insertion. Manufacturing now in Asia might have overcome this. Great!



    Ignoring product cost and product manufacturing methods, the TMA derivatives of the ex-Audiolab products had significant electronics changes to improve their sound quality, getting away from the somewhat brittle and tiring ex-Audiolab sound, which was found to be caused by low cost resistors, capacitors and OP amps.



    There is no doubt that the real-TMA products, such as DPA32R, 100x5R or 700:7r were much better products.



    It’s a pity that we have mainly guessing when it comes to the future of new-Audiolab.



    Please note: when saying ex-Audiolab I mean products designed before 1997, the time of the TM takeover.
     
  27. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    Well its nice to see all my work on Udo's sense of humour over the years has continued to flourish.....

    He is more than likely correct about the home theatre market taking over stereo sales, but the bit about low energy standby :nono: :nono: :nono:
     
  28. mlinhares

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    I was surprised by that also. I remember that you said in the "old" site that the selling ratio was 60 AV products for one audio only product.
     
  29. RuiGil

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    I think that Udo is correct in his comments, but I can put it in a way that he probably can't. :devil:

    In Portuguese,when we receive this kind of news we usually say "a montanha pariu um rato", which means literally in English "the mountain gave birth to a mice" (so much expectation for this !!!). :boring:

    IAG is now trying to bet in what they believe it was a myth (the former Audiolab range), and it wasn't, and giving up everything that is now a legend (TMA design, know how, etc.), and will be. :suicide:

    As Graham said before, the highend user is not their main worry. So they are trying to produce entry level hi-fi products to flood their home market (Chinese market) and probably in a year or two they will turn their attention to entry level Home Cinema market (the AV30r and 700:7r metamorphosis hints that strategy). They will address the highend market only after that, if everything goes well. :censored:

    So the remaining question is, and I've asked it to myself several times, will the highend user wait ?
    The usual answer to me is: "I already have those legendary products. They will serve me for many years to come. There is support, probably upgrades, so why bother. I will only try to buy TMA stuff to complete my system, nothing but that. To buy new Audiolab gear they (Audiolab) will have to prove me that they deserve my confidence and till now they haven't done a thing for that." :thumbsdow

    I leave this question: They had Quad, why they would need TMA ? Probably roversd answers have something to do with this. :devil:
     
  30. caleb

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    When I asked the question about why my AV32 is always warm even in standby - Graham explained that even in standby the unit is almost "active"

    Where does Dr Zucker get his point that the TAG gear had remote control and LOW ENERGY STANDBY??

    Caleb
     

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