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Someone advise me of my rights (Robertsons and Toshiba)

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by Logan, May 26, 2003.

  1. Logan

    Logan
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    Gather round good friends, come one and all. Pull up a chair, cosy yourself by the fire and pour yourself a stiff drink while I regale you with tales of woe and horror. It all started one cold dark October.....


    1) I ordered a Toshiba 36zp18 last October from Robertsons. Both the telly and the company had come highly recommended by this forum so no probs there I thought. I was told it would take up to a month but Toshiba would be in contact within two weeks with a delivery date.
    2) A month later I hadn't heard anything so I called Robertsons. They had no record of my order but they had taken the money from my bank. They said they'd get onto it and ring me back.
    3) They never rang me back! I rang again and they said the same. We'll sort it out and ring you back.
    4) They never rang me back! I rang again. A woman at Robertsons said there was nothing they could do until they had found the original order. I asked if they could put in a new order. I was told they were reluctant to do this in case the first order 'turned up' and I got two TVs. I said "Surely two televisions is preferable to the one I haven't got". Reluctantly, she said she would put in a new order.
    5) I rang back the day after and guess what?...The order hadn't been done! This time I got a gentleman (I think he was called David) who said he'd personally sort it out and guess what?....He did. He organised for a TV to be delivered, apologised for the poor service I'd received and kept me informed with various phonecalls along the way.
    6) Two weeks later shiny new TV arrives.

    This should be the end of the story, you know, where the hero gets the girl, the bad guy gets filled full of lead and they both ride off into a glorious technicolour sunset, but no, our story has a twist....

    7) Four hours after the TV arrived...*ping* the screen goes green. Nothing will rectify this.
    8) Ring Robertsons who apologetically arrange for brand new set to come from Toshiba.
    9) New set arrives two weeks later.

    What a farce you may say, but at least all is now OK, hunky dory, tip top...oh no...read on

    10) 3 months have now passed. Our hero is living a contented existence with a wife, four children, no pets (hey I've four kids you know!) and a big spanking 36" TV. Late one evening *Ping* TV turns itself off. OK kids, who sat on the remote? Turn TV back on, screen has gone blue with horizontal pinstripes going across. I'm no TV engineer but I know this isn't a good sign. TV saves me the trouble by turning itself off.
    11) Ring Robertsons who arrange to have an engineer come round and look at TV.
    12) It takes engineer ONE WEEK to get here. Then he complains about size and weight of TV. Can't fix it. Have to take it away!
    13) TV comes back TWO WEEKS after they took it in - grrr! Oh well, at least it's OK now. Later that evening *ping* Yep, you've guessed it, TV turns itself off. Comes back on with blue screen and white stripes.
    14) Decidely cheesed off now. Ring Robertsons. Speak to bloke called Jim. Very apologetic and helpful. Says he's going
    to ring Toshiba himself and ask for a replacement (ie new) set, because he agrees this situation is farcical.
    15) Jim rings back. Sorry, but Toshiba won't play ball. Until they're sure set can't be replaced then they won't issue new set.
    16) Normally a patient man, but now it's a case of "Mr McGee, don't make me angry, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry
    ..."
    17) Try to ring Toshiba myself. Get through to all sorts of weird and wonderful departments and automated messages but nothing of any use.
    18) Ring Jim back. He gladly gives me the number he uses for Toshiba customer service.
    19) I ring customer services. Eventually get deputy manager (manager is *ahem* 'busy at the moment').
    20) I recall my tale of grief to Sue. She's sympathetic but unbending saying the problem is with Robertsons. Reply, "No, this is a Toshiba television. It's faulty. The problem lies with you."
    21) Sue asks her techie guys what the problem may be. They think it's a faulty teletext module. Sue arranges for a teletext module to be sent the next day and for engineers to come and fit it at home so I shouldn't be without TV.
    22) Engineers come, fit module and leave (don't complain about size or weight this time)

    ....and that should finally be that...but wait...c'mere...there's more...


    23) 10 days later (ie yesterday) *ping* TV turns itself off. When it gets switched back on screen is all blue with white lines running across....


    And this is basically where I'm at. Now I'm asking, what are my options? I've worked out that for the six months I've had this TV, it's been broken or away for at least three of those six.
    I don't want another repair. I don't even want another of these models. They are cursed, cursed I tell ya!
    Should I get back to Toshiba, or Robertsons or should I go to Citizen's Advice. I'm sure some of you guys have had experiences similar to this (only not quite as long-winded).
    This TV was 1400 quid. It retailed for nearly two grand on the high street. That's not a small sum of money. I've got a 20 year old Sony that I've never had any trouble with and my folks have got a 200 quid Goodmans TV that works fine.
    I've been really patient here but I think the Customer service I've received from both Toshiba and Robertsons has ranged from poor to non-existent. I don't really know what to do now and therefore throw myself at your tender mercies....
     
  2. GrahamC

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    Not fit for purpose and you have allowed them to try and fix it so I would say you can demand a full refund. Don’t forget the small claims court (only about £35 which you would get back) if they get uperty. I think that in the first instance Robertsons has to deal with the set. I think the stage has come when you have to be a bit more forceful and demand a refund and not except any more repairs. :nono:
     
  3. hornydragon

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    I agree ring them up say after numerous repair this etc is faulty and i want a refund. When they complain very calmly explain that you will NOT be having another repair as you have lost confidence in the brand and the range. Write to them asking for your refund (use recorded mail) give them a week and ring back (PS ihope you paid by CC) then if no joy ring CC company and explain that robertsons sold you a duff telly and wont give you a refund.
    If no joy write to toshiba (registered mail) and write to Robertsons informing them of your decision to take the to court. Cue CAB for help give them one week and file the paperwork.
    If that dont get them moving then just take em court (via watchdog at what point you deem suitable dont **** em off too early) Try and avoid a solictor! but you might find a no win no fee deal!!!
     
  4. garygfx

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    4 breakdowns? Searching the forums I assume you haven't found anyone else with so many faulty Toshibas? I'm just wondering if you have any unusual electrical appliances in the house that could cause sudden drains or spikes in your ring mains? Is it plugged straight into a wall socket?

    I would agree with Graham C. Demand a refund from Robertsons as your contract is with them (not fit for purpose etc), or ask for a different make of TV (and new receipt so you'll get a full 12 months from now). It sounds like Robertsons have genuinely tried to help. I'll be surprised if you'll need to take out a CCJ, at least I hope you won't have to. Good luck.
     
  5. carpeteyes

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    Just to add
    If you decide to stay with Robertsons make sure you ask for some sort of compensation, I had a faulty tosh replaced in January and they offered me a free extra year garantee or discount on a dvd player for my troubles.
    I always recommend Robertsons to my friends, It looks like Toshiba is at fault in this instance.
     
  6. lurcher

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    Just to add make sure you put in all in writing to Robertsons, I have to sympathize with you as I am going through a similar story with a BMW mini (in 5 times for persistent leaks, still not fixed, oh and new gearbox had to be fitted 100 miles ago)

    I have to say that I got a supportive response from the dealer once I had put my case in writing. I am now waiting to see if their progressing of a replacement vehicle from BMW materialises !
     
  7. kenfowler3966

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    I have had the same set for 2 years with no problems yet, so you have been unlucky.

    It sounds like they are replacing a failed component that is actually being failed by something else that they haven't picked up. Replace the component and all is well, for a while! They need to find the base cause of the problem.

    I concur with some of the comments above though, that you may have issues with your house power supply or other equipment. Have you taken the basic precaution of plugging all the equipment into a surge protector?

    Toshiba are correct though in that it is the dealers responsibility to rectify the problem. I wonder how others get on when they buy tv's from the cheapest internet site? If they get one like this it will be a nightmare to resolve, if yuo can even get someone to repkly to an e-mail or awnser the phone. At leasr Robinsons are trying. I once had a phillips set that ended up back at the factory to resolve a fault no-one else had seen before, took 4 months to repair!
     
  8. Steve13

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    Logan,

    You're not the only one who's had problems with Robertson's and their service dept. (This might get a bit lenghty so you might want to skip to the bottom of this for a copy of what I sent to Robertsons which got them to agree to a refund.)

    I bought a TV at the beginning of January and 6 weeks later the internal speakers started throwing white noise/static out of them even when the TV was muted.

    I contacted Robertsons by email who rang back within 2 days to ask a few questions about the problem and then said they'd arrange for an engineer to visit. They then rang me back 2 hours later to ask the same questions so I pointed out we'd already had this conversation. They then rang back the next day to go through the same conversation again (same guy on all 3 occasions). Fortunately 3 identical conversations were enough and a service engineer turned up a couple days later.

    The engineer couldn't fix it so went away to try and get a replacement circuit board, but apparently such a thing isn't available so they wanted to take it away and go through the circuit board componenet by component to try and find the problem.

    I went back to Robertsons and told them that it wasn't acceptable and I wanted a replacement or refund which is really where all the fun started as I found it almost impossible to get any sort of response from them. Every time I rang the phones were engaged (although to be fair this doesn't seem to be so much of a problem recently) or not answered. Emails were just ignored - emails of 6 April, 13 March, 10 March and 3 March got no reply. I eventually got a reply to an email sent on 29 April, but that was because I copied it to their manager.

    They contacted me the next day to confirm they'd provide a full refund. As I now longer have the box/packaging they arranged to deliver some boxes/packaging to me on 9 May. They also rang me on 3 May to go through the same conversation I'd had with them on the 30 April (same guy) so I referred them to our earlier conversation and the email I'd sent confirming the conversation/dates (he read the mail whilst I was on the phone and said the dates were OK). I rang them at midday on 9 May and spoke to the same guy who was surprised I was expecting a delivery as he hadn't arranged anything!!

    I was told they were having problems locating a suitable sized box, but he'd call me back later that day. At 17:15 I'd had enough waiting so rang them to be told they were still having problems but someone would definately get back to me on Monday which they didn't. So another phone call to Robertsons where I was told they can't locate box/packaging and oh well that's life I'll just have to sit around and wait for somethig to turn up. I wasn't happy! It'd now been 3 months trying to get some sense out of them.

    Anyway I'm getting bored with this now - suffice to say that there have been a few more emails chasing them up, a few more phone calls, still they can't communicate back with me. They found a suitable box but then that got lost whilst trying to deliver to their warehouse. Then there was my threat to take them to the small claims court if nothing was done within 7 days. Then I got home last night to find an empty box had been delivered, which, if I've got a shoe horn available, might just accomodate the TV although absolutely no room to put any protective packaging around it so what are the chances it getting back to Robertsons in one piece? I think it'd be a mistake to try.

    Suffice to say that I personally won't be buying anything else from Robertsons.

    By the way, does anyone know who's legally repsonsible for boxing this TV up - I've rung around local retailers trying to get a box and can't get anything big enough and Robertson's attitude is that it's my responsibility and that they are trying to do me a favour by sourcing a box for me.

    Anyhow, now I've got that off my chest, try an email along these lines:

    "I am formally writing to you rejecting the television as, under the terms of the Sale of Goods Act, the TV is of unsatisfactory quality and I am requesting a full and immediate refund of my money."

    If you paid by credit card add the following:

    "As I paid for the TV by credit card I will also be writing to the credit card company notifying them of their liability under section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974."

    and write to the credit card company saying you are holding them jointly liable under section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

    The only times I've got any reply out of them is by writing to their manager, David McDonald - dmcdonald@robertons-online.co.uk -although you still get the same guy from the service dept contacting you which is where it all falls down again.

    Good Luck.
    Steve.
     
  9. Stuart Wright

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    In the rules for complainaing about people (particularly retailers and manufacturers) I ask that you be fair in reporting what happened.
    You did well until the above bit.
    From what you say, Robertson's service wasn't good. But they did come through in the end (particularly this Jim bloke) and it's not their fault that the TV is plagued with problems.
    I personally would ask for a full refund and get a different model of TV.
     
  10. lynx

    lynx
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    The following may be off assistance to not only yourself but to others who have faulty goods :- The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002
    (http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si2002/20023045.htm).
    This basicaly puts a legal duty on retailers to compensate purchasers who have faulty goods. It deems a fault that occurs within 6 months of purchase to have existed at the time of sale.
    :)
     
  11. David McDonald

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    Logan,
    I am sorry to hear the problems you have experienced, I believe that our Service Department have arranged for a Toshiba Liaison Officer to call and determine the ongoing fault with your CTV. If no satisfactory conclusion comes from this please contact me directly and I will endeavour to resolve the situation.

    Steve 13,
    I am sorry we have failed to deliver an acceptable level of service; the main problem getting an empty box delivered seems to be people believe it to be rubbish and bin it! Jim has arranged for another box to be delivered today (Thursday 5th).

    We, as a company are committed to our customer service and try to maintain a high standard throughout. Unfortunately we are not perfect and this can lead to the occasional unhappy customer. I will personally ensure both these instances are dealt with to a conclusion that both parties are happy with.
     
  12. Logan

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    Hmm, I thought I only reported the facts. If constant telephone calls going unanswered, promises to call me back go unadhered to, assurances that things would be sorted within a certain date and then said date passes without any word or explanation and 5 breakdowns on two sets within six months doesn't constitute poor customer service I don't know what does! I even sent a very polite letter to the managing director outlining all the problems I've had but have had no word of reply so you can understand my frustrations. Apologies if I 'broke the rules' but what I went through (am still going through) would have made a vicar curse.

    You see, the Television is STILL sitting in the corner of the room a full 11 days after it last broke down. A huge hulking behemoth of electrical rubbishness taunting me with its non-working ways. 1400 quids worth of rubbish!

    The latest is that Toshiba are sending one of their head techies around tomorrow. This is strange becaiuse Robertsons knew nothing about this and to their credit, don't want this either. They agree that this situation is pretty intolerable and want Toshiba to take the set back so we can all draw a line under this episode. Toshiba however are saying that they don't think the company who fixed the telly did a proper job (hmm, could this be why the set is still sat in the corner of the room in a suspiciously non-working manner!) so they want to have a bash themselves. The thing is, the last time this happened and I complained to Tosh, they told me "Let us have one last go at fixing it because we think we know what the problem is" They tried...they failed and yet now they are going back on their word and trying again.

    Even if they fix the set tomorrow, how much confidence have I got that it will be okay? On a scale o one to ten.....
     
  13. Stuart Wright

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    Logan, I understand you are not happy and I'm not accusing you of breaking forum rules. Just asking - difficult though it may be - to be as fair and factual as possible.
    Anyow, I contacted Robertsons myself and drew David McDonald's attention to this thread and he has replied above.
    I hope your problems are indeed resolved to your satisfaction.
    Oh and please update your profile with your new email address. Otherwise I will be deleting your profile.

    A general personal note re boxes - we have so many household items which came in boxes (4 TVs and 2x7.1 speaker systems for a start) that it adds up to more boxes than we physically have room in our house to store (even if we put boxes in boxes).
    So as soon as I unpack anything these days, I whip out the Stanley knife and cut up the box and bin it.
    If this is a problem in the future because the goods are faulty, then as far as I'm concerned it's not my problem.
     
  14. Logan

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  15. garygfx

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    It's admirable for Robertsons to come here and reply, but it shouldn't have to take the devine intervention of Spectre to sort things out. I was gearing up to buy a Toshiba 32ZD26 from them but lost faith when I read Logan's story, but it's nice to know there's someone there who cares about their online reputation (that's you, David!). I guess for every unhappy customer there're 100 happy ones that you don't hear a peep out of. Robertsons have a much better Pricerunner rating than Krish AV, QED and Empire if that's anything to go by:
    http://uk.pricerunner.com/sound-and-vision/vision/tv/99403/reviews/2027

    I think they need to help out that guy with the memory problem - show him how to break the Groundhog day cycle! ;-) Seriously, he should make a note of all conversations with customers in a database, it's essential to ensure things run smoothly.

    Logan, as a matter of interest what model of Toshiba do you have?
     
  16. Logan

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    Gary,

    It's a 36zp18q - there are huge threads devoted to it on these forums. I believe the ZP38 has now superceded it. You'll probably find it under Toshiba PF2. I think this model is 'supposed' to have ironed out a lot of the faults the original had - which would explain a lot.

    To be fair to Robertsons, they do seem now to be trying to sort this out and agree that this amount of repairs and hassle on such a new set is unacceptable. I get the impression that their hands are somewhat tied by Toshiba to some extent.

    The only other set in our house is in our bedroom, so the kids migrate to there when they want to watch something. You can't imagine the joy of getting into bed every night to be greeted by biscuit crumbs and wet blackcurrant patches... yummy!
     
  17. Steve13

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    Spectre,

    If I knew you had so much influence I'd have posted my problem to this forum months ago :)

    Thankyou for your intervention as David McDonald has been true to his word and a suitable box has turned up this afternoon so looks like this saga may be coming to an end.

    Cheers.
    Steve.
     
  18. Pete Callan

    Pete Callan
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    Everyone who buys anything which doesn't work is entitled to a full refund. FULL STOP.

    "If you are returning goods because they are faulty, you don't have to accept a credit note, replacement or repair. Hold out for a refund if that's what you want. If you give the company an opportunity to repair the item, you still have the right to reject it later if you are still not satisfied. "

    This is on the BBC Watchdog website http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/guides_to/goodsandservices/index2.shtml and you should quote it if you ever have any problems with anything you purchase ever!
     

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