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Some recommendations on my Panny 32PK1?

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by Sam, Mar 12, 2001.

  1. Sam

    Sam
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    Just got this new set and I'm reletively pleased with it, but I do have a few problems and I'd appreciate your advice on possible tweaks/changes.

    The obvious first: Geometry. I realise its not going to be perfect, but are there any tweaks I can do in the service menu to improve it?

    Secondly, the picture appears to shift to the left in RGB mode which is a problem I had with my old tv, but I thought that new(ish) tvs such as this would have this problem fixed. Have I missed something in the manual to fix this, or maybe I can sort it out in the service menu?

    Finally, when I'm using an RGB source (DVD, ON, Sky) in 4:3 mode, I get a thin green line on the left of the picture. Anyone else got this? Can it be fixed?

    Thanks loads advance,
    Sam
     
  2. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    Here read use go. (this is based on the original series of PKs they may have updated the firmware but I doubt it'll amker a difference)

    Don't get the green line in 4:3 though although the left handside exhibits a feint vertical line on the edge of the picture of increases brighness (only visible in dark scenes and still very slight doesn't bother me)

    ---------------------------------------------

    Most people I've attempted to mail the zipped version of the service menu to have had it bounce due to size constraints. As a result here is a help sheet I stuck out on the NGs yonks ago. This helpsheet actually contains more precise detail than the service manual itself which is really just a components list.
    The procedures outlined below apply to a wide range of panasonic models in circulation (certainly as far back as the D2 models). The only difference being that the older sets require "reveal" to held down instead of index. The outlined calibration practice itself is valid for "any" TV set.
    Posting this from my work account as google have grabbed deja-news please respect my privacy. Otherwise I will track you down and nail your head to the coffee table. hu hu huh.


    PK1 service menu access:

    Bass to max
    treble to min
    hold down "index"
    press "-" (minus) on the front of the set.

    this will get you into the service menu.(it will default to 16:9 mode makes things a bit tricky for 4:3 geometry but it is possible)

    coloured fastext buttons on the remote navigate left to right they are: back/forward/adjust up/adjust down : last two might be reversed but you get the idea.

    "STR" saves new value: if you modify a setting and don't press this then the value will go back to its previous value when you move out of it.

    "N" gets you out of the service menu.

    settings are :

    H-pos (horizontal position)
    V-pos (vertical position)
    H-amp (horizontal amplitude)
    V-amp (vertical amplitude)
    EW-amp1(EW-amplitude coarse pincushion looks like)
    EW-amp2(EW-amplitude finer/corners looks like)
    Trapez1(Trapezium comp_ suck it and see!)
    Trapez2(finer of the above suck it and see!)
    V-lin (vertical linearity)
    V-sym (vertical symmetry used with above to sort... vertical linearity !)

    You can mess about with the above settings with impunity. They are all fairly intuitive and relate to centring , overscan , geometry , linearity and are interactive with each other. However avoid going to extremes on any settings (you won't need to anyway) as it might kick in some sort of protection and collapse the picture (thin horizontal line) which will probably burn the tube in about three seconds flat and you will no longer be able to see the service menu to undo your error!

    The others are [​IMG]*these ones should not be played with*)

    DVCO (take a guess at deflection voltage cut-off/correction??) : leave it alone you need a PAL colour bar for it to auto adjust to. (more info to follow ) *UPDATED* service manual: Recieve a PAL colourbar pattern. FOR DVCO alignment press blue button wait until the colours are changing slowly and press "STR"

    (in practice the" colour changing slowly bit means that the numbers have stabilised it takes about 10 secs. The value it satbilises to can vary depending on the input and the source material ie I get slightly different values using the PAL colourbar on that free total dvd disc than I do with the Video Essentials one. Personaly I trust the VE one as its full bandwidth the total dvd disc looks like its come off a composite source. I use this to cal the dvd player via RGB. For my digibox as I've yet to find a transmitted colour bar the discovery kids and wings ident works well: all you need is something that contains the full gammete of displayable colour values and this comes close.

    Panasonic advised me to do this to correct some (very minor)flickering in peak white areas via RGB It didn't really correct this fully and I suspect this procedure fixes a flickering black line problem instead. It is a fairly harmless procedure if you stick to the recommendations though so give it a go. I suspect it controls the deflection interval between two scanlines for a given field hence the black line problem when its incorrect: could be wrong though)

    Cut-off (cut-off DC leave well alone)
    Ug2 (avoid like the plague) instant TV death if you crank it about.

    Hi-light & lowlight (RGB cut-off and drive adjustments for colour temp: leave alone unless you have a colour analyser handy and know a thing or two about CIE chromaticity aims) "warm" seems close to 6500K anyway : I intend to check grayscale tracking properly at some point. UPDATE I've yet to do this to be quite honest my eyes tell me its near enough on warm. However I know a bit about this area so any queries mail plisken@my-deja.com.
    I did a full 6500K calibration with colour analyser on my previous TX32D2 but the PK1 has some foibles which might make this trickier but I think I know what its doing to about 75% anyway.

    Sub-brightness (pedestal black level: sets lowest point on the brightness control basically) Can be used to equalise the black point for all the inputs IF they save seperately. I only really use RGB myself so I've not tweaked this. It did equalise all the inputs on my TX32D2 though (saved slightly differently to the pk1)

    I strongly suggest that you avoid adjusting any of the the ones above as they are either very vague(technical) in their purpose or have the possibility of damaging the set or both!

    -------------------------------------
    Some advice about adjustment.

    Write down all the original values BEFORE you start adjusting things. this is the only way to return to the original settings if you cock things up.

    Don't go to extremes on ANY setting. The settings are all interactive to a certain extent.Proper adjustment involves ping-ponging back and forth between adjustments to ensure you are not over-compensating for something another setting is doing. Balance remember.

    Use relevant test material (Video essentials is good but remember it may not be 100% for a 625/50 image: its actually pretty close on the PK1 so in practice don't worry about it).

    Make sure you are looking at the relevant input type before engaging the service menu( on the PK it looks like one lot of settings applies to everything: which is actually good in a way).

    When adjusting geometry I initially center the image (H-pos V-pos) then take off the overscan (V-amp H-amp) so I can see the edges of the image. Get everything pucka geometry wise (make sure all edges are straight as poss and the scan is linear (no bulgy distortion). Then put on the overscan (H-amp V-amp equally) until things start to go out of kilter (and they will) readjust for optimum and then more overscan etc until satisfied.

    Big tip: Use a ruler and or set-square (nice big ones) do not trust your eyes with geometry issues.

    Take your time: the geometry alone might take some time.(the concave 4:3 takes a bit of time to fix). You may not be able to get everything perfect ( trust me) but you should be able to improve the bowing problems until its unobjectionable.

    The more accurate the 16:9 adjustments are the more accurate the 4:3 is. But you may still need to come out of the service mode to check those nasty concave sides in 4:3 and pop back in to change a setting that fixes it (without compromising the 16:9 mode at the same time!)

    Properly set-up the PK1 kicks butt!


     
  3. Mr.D

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    Firstly picture shift.
    It will as you've discovered probably vary from source to source and from 525/60 to 625/50 material.

    I have compromised on my set . The picture is not "fully" centred for dvd (off center by about 5mm) and the digibox is now correspondingly off centre in the other direction by the same amount or thereabouts. I find this unobjectionable.

    (when doing the geometry adjustment though always properly centre the picture first you can put the RGB shift correction back on once you've done the geometry).

    In order to totally equalise your set-up for every source type and input you'd have to have seperate settings for each input,picture type and aspect. The PK1 doesn't have this many seperate settings so the only other alternative would be to adjust the sources themselves relative to one aim: most sources , dvd players , digiboxes don't of course offer this to any decent degree!

    So calibrate the image path thats the most critical to you: in my case its the dvd player , and live with the slight variances on the other sources. You will find that all the other image paths will improve also but there may be certain differences as you've found out with the picture shift. Rest assured in the knowledge that the TV is far better now that you've calibrated it anyway.

    I recommend using VE as its guaranteed to have been mastered to relevant criteria from decent material ( I actually use some of the same test footage at work but from the original film res images). There is also Avia but I'm more at home with the more traditional industry test patterns on VE. (Avia's for tourists!)

    The THX optimode feature has not been mastered to a specific standard but rather tweaked for each title (varies from disc to disc in its values). I don't recommend this over VE or AVIA but its better than nothing as a benchmark if you stick to the same title all the time. (still don't like the idea that these discs are made to someone else's own idea of a standard!)

    Your green line phenomena (I'm assuming its a VERY thin light vertical edge on the LHS of a 4:3 frame) may just be down to the lack of horizontal overscan in 4:3 mode showing the retrace at the edge of the picture. ( I suspect this is the same thing I see on my own set but yours may be more obtrusive) I'd like to say get an engineer to look at it but in my experience they will take the set away for two weeks then say that the set is within spec.

    I'll see if I can get any feedback from Panasonic myself and see if its a known/fixable issue but I can't promise you anything.

    The PK1 is as far as I'm concerned the best 32" widescreen out there at the moment. Bear in mind if you were to get an exchange for a different make you'd probably end up with a TV that had more different problems and probably a step down in picture quality. The only alternative I considered was a Sony FX20 which you will find has had more reported problems less tweakable geometry and in my opinion lesser picture quality (its still a pretty good TV though before anyone else starts moaning) Of course if it trades the one problem that really annoys you for a few that don't bother you all that much you may find this more suitable.

     
  4. Sam

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    First of all Mr.D, I'd like to thank you for your excellent reply. Highly detailed and totally invaluable, it has already helped the me improve the picture vastly in about 20 mins without doing it 'properly' yet.

    However, i am a little worried that you have not experienced the green vertical line along the edge of a 4:3 picture. Maybe a replacement is in order?

    You recommended Video Essentials and I'd like to know how much better this is than the THX Optimode set up sections on the R1 Toy Story and Terminator 2 discs? Is it worth the $40-50 (or whatever it is) asking price?

    Finally, the first thing I tried to do was adjust the horizontal position to compensate for the rgb shift, but I've noticed that different sources appear to shift the picture more than others. My DVD is most severe, and ONdigital least. Have you come across this?

    Thanks again

    Sam
     
  5. Kahless

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    This is fantastic, I have been after the information posted by Mr D for ages. Thankyou.

    Mr D I wonder if you help me, I have a 28 inch PK3 (Nicam model) with a slight colour band in the top right hand corner of the screen which goes in a thin line down to the bottom right of the screen which appears as a yellowy patch on white areas. I was wondering if any of the setting that you have mentioned in your post relate to being able to fix this problem.

    Also if you have any more information regarding the setting of the PK series of TV's I would love to hear it.

    If you do have is there any chance of you emialing the information to rharling@videss.co.uk

    Thanks again.

    Regards

    Robert
     
  6. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    Is it there on all inputs regardless of source?

    If so it could be one of two things: magnetic staining (any speakers nearby? Cast Iron Radiators? Big chunks of iron). Switch the TV off for an hour ( all the way NOT into standby) and then back on to activate the degauss circuit if that fails you may need to get an engineer to manually degauss the set in situ with a wand.

    It could be a warped shadowmask in which case you'd need a new telly but you may find that panasonic qualify this as being within spec on your TV.

    ( In my experience if you play hardball with them and make it quite obvious you know more about Tvs than the average punter they give way fairly quickly)


     
  7. Monster

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    Mr D You should be getting paid for this sort of advise! Perhaps you can help me with a problem I am experiencing with my TX32PK1.
    When watching a widescreen video (eg StarWars Trilogy) zoomed to fill the screen (the auto function doesn't always work even after a few minutes with a bright frame filling picture) I can see a faint coloured pattern like a soap bubble near the bottom centre of the screen. It is only noticeable when there is a dark scene but it is distracting. I did have a video on the top shelf of the cabinet below the TV and I tried moving this with no improvement. My centre speaker is shielded and the DVD is about 350mm below the TV and the amp is 500mm below that. Any ideas?

    ------------------
    Now then, now then. Whats all this shouting? We'll have no trouble here!
     
  8. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    Auto mode isn't infallable although I find its OK 90% of the time. (its trying to guess at picture content so it will get confused occasionally) Switch over to manual zoom if its flicking about.

    The soap bubble might be an imperfection on the shadow mask but I'd expect it to be there all the time regardless of material if that was the case.

    It might be moire which is a common enough problem on CRTs. This is fixable by defocusing the spot-size of the scanning beam. (but you'll need an "engineer" ideally)
    If it is moire I'd expect it to change in severity with different aspect ratios ie: gone in 16x9 mode visible in 4x3 less visible in zoom.
     
  9. Kahless

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    Mr D, thanks for the reply, ahh well I was hoping it was going to be the defocusing the dot answere for my TV.

    I dont have any large metal objects or magnets near my screen, I got the TV in Dec and it has allways done it, the TV has been moved all about the room etc and has been swiched off and on loads of time since, the only reason I havent done anything about it is that the TV is in warranty and I just havent had chance.

    I was hoping also that with enough on and off's the problem would clear.

    I think I will get an engineer to wave the wand, my only worry is that I have read that if the TV is violently dropped it can cause the patter I have and that it is permanent.

    So the defocusing does not work at the corners??

    Regards

    Robert
     
  10. bark

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    Mr. D,
    you seem to know your stuff when it comes
    to panasonics!!! maybe you could be the
    man to answer my question ...

    i have a PK20 and when i'm looking at some
    channels (from my mmds decoder box) in "just"
    mode there's a white bar all down the right
    hand side of my set. it's about half an inch thick on some stations and is kind of noisey (you can still see bits of the picture in some parts of it) this is not there when
    i look at the same channel in 4:3 or 16:9.
    is there anything i can do to get rid of this
    or should i take the set back?? apart from
    this problem i'm really impressed with the
    tv.

    please.. please help as i live in a small
    town and God only know what would happen if
    i let the local dealer anywhere near my set..

    bark

    ------------------
    "Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'sir' without adding, 'you're making a scene.'"

    - Homer J. Simpson.
     
  11. Monster

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    Thanks Mr D. Strangely the moire is worst in zoom. I think I'll get an engineer out. The TV's still under warranty.
    Thanks again for your advise. The cheques in the post!!

    ------------------
    Now then, now then. Whats all this shouting? We'll have no trouble here!
     
  12. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    It should be possible to defocus the spot to remove moire but not obviously impact the overall picture "sharpness".As long as the spot size is only a little larger than the dot-picth on the shadow mask you won't get moire and you won't soften the picture.

    You can argue that a little bit of moire is actually an indication that the overall focus on the set is about optimum (the PK1 is very very sharp in comparisson to other TVs)
     
  13. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    My first thought would be a bit of excess overscan in "just" mode. Then I'd think why do you care about the just mode anyway! I leave my PK1 on just when I'm away from home in case prolonged 4:3 viewing causes uneven tube wear by my mother in-law aaprt from that its yucky!

    If your fine in 4:3 16x9 or zoom rejoice!
     
  14. General Skanky

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    Kahless,

    look at the back of your set and tell me what suffix you have after the model number.
    If it's an E, then the colour banding you're on about is a known flaw inherent in those tubes. It's within 'tolerances' but as a guide, my firm has refunded anyone that was unhappy with it. It's most visible against lighter backgrounds?

    ------------------
    Douch!!......Wot's da madder, da CIA got you pushing too many penzils?

    Work: www.hughes-tv.co.uk
     
  15. Kahless

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    GENERAL SKANKY:- Damn I can't get to the back of the set very easily, it is in the fireplace, I have had a look on the box it came in and can find no E's except for the text EAN but this does not seem to be significant.

    I bought the set in december and it's been out for well over a year? So I am hoping that it isnt one of them. What do you reckon my chances are with getting a replacement at Currys if it is one of them and the engineer can't do anything with it?

    MR D:- Thanks again for the reply, with reference with your post, how do I defocus the spot slightly?


    Geeze this is brilliant having people who know about Panny's posting on here.
     
  16. Guest

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    Mr.D,

    Fount of all panny knowledge - thank you for your postings on the PK1 and other panasonic TV's. I wonder if you could help me with a picture problem that I've been having on and off with my 32PK1. I have it hooked up to a NVHD625 VCR via SCART and composite. The problem is with the display quality of terrestrial channels, particularly BBC2, ITV and CH5. The set can go for weeks at a time with 'perfect' picture quality and then the picture degrades on BBC2 with slightly off horizontal lines appearing, ITV goes grainy and CH5 looks like I'm watching it through a snowstorm.

    Could this be a SCART pin 19 problem, a TV tuner problem, or is it more likely to be something to do with the aerial run? A 5db signal booster is fitted to the aerial in the loft but I have seen boosters that go up to 20db. Is it possible to 'over-boost' the signal? or should I just go out and try one anyway?

    thanks in advance
     
  17. Sam

    Sam
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    I think we need a new forum 'MrD's Panny Advice Clinic' would be apt.
     
  18. General Skanky

    General Skanky
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    Anopax -

    When the picture goes bad is it via scart or RF from the VCR?
    If via RF and not scart you could be suffering from tuner drift on the TV.
    The VCR tuner can be drifting (most likely) and will do it either via scart or RF.
    Or, (but you need to check the VCR RF output), it could just be tuned to a frequency that gets the odd interference crop up.

    Kahless -

    from what I know the suffix is only on the back of the set on the black panel with the model/serial number. Best to be sure!
    I'd argue like mad personally to get it replaced, if it were under guarantee!!! Now it's most probably too late. They'll only ask why you didn't say sooner.
    ------------------
    Douch!!......Wot's da madder, da CIA got you pushing too many penzils?

    Work: www.hughes-tv.co.uk

    [This message has been edited by General Skanky (edited 21-03-2001).]

    [This message has been edited by General Skanky (edited 21-03-2001).]

    [This message has been edited by General Skanky (edited 21-03-2001).]
     
  19. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    Firstly if you get the same effects on both the analogue tuner in the set and the one in vcr its most likely a signal problem rather than hardware. The problem with RF is that in some instances regardeless of how good the aerial and downlink is if the reception is variable you can be stuck with the problem . (I'd advise you to go digital as it will also make the best use of that nice 16x9 screen you bought).

    However some things to try ( I have a HD625 knocking about) Have you turned off the RF output? I also advise you to ensure that the AV1 output of the vcr is made uni-directional ( ie: only functions as an output instead of an input ie the pin19 snip to ensure you don't manage to hook-up a feedback loop ).


     
  20. Guest

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    General Skanky and Mr.D

    Thank you VERY much for your help. Tried the picture through TV RF direct (no VCR) and VCR tuner through RF to TV and SCART to AV2 on TV. The picture problems are apparent through all of the above although I did notice some very slight difference in picture quality when switching between the various inputs. (different cable quality/processing/tuner quality?).

    Will try disconnecting pin 19 (not sure how on a moulded plug) but it looks like an RF problem - time to go digital.
     
  21. Matt

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    Grab hold of the pin with a pair of pliers and twist it so it snaps
     
  22. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    Nope I wouldn't do that. The wire leading to the pin might float around inside the plug causing shorts. Especially as its a moulded one if this happens its not like you can easily open the plug and fix it.

    I avoid buying cables with moulded plugs. If you need to snip pins I'd have to say get another lead that isn't moulded.
     
  23. MartinN

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    Another question for Mr.D (you should really charge for this!)

    When my 32PK1 is in 4:3 or 16:9 mode and I'm watching a scene with fairly muted (e.g. grey) colours - I get lots of straight thin horizontal lines, that don't move, from top to bottom. If I'm in zoom mode the lines disappear.

    The right edge of the screen (last 2 inches are so) suffers more than the rest of the screen.

    Thanks

     
  24. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    Moire most likely or warpage in the shadow mask (unlikely as I'd expect some obvious discolouration).

    Additionally it may be a problem which panasonic advise recalibrating the DVCO setting in the service menu ( although I doubt this as most people who experience a problem they describe as "horizontal lines" experience no benefit from doing this ( easy calibration though so it might be worthwhile I outline it in the big post above but recommend decent test material before you play around with it).

    I suspect its moire though which I also outline above. I myself have some moire most obviously on 4:3 (625/50) mode (even then its slight) I also hear of the older TX__D2/3 models suffering from this slightly. The only recourse in this situation is to get an engineer to defocus the guns ( a good one should be able to defocus the spot size slightly without degrading the rest of the picture: however I've yet to see a "good" engineer).

    Moire is a funny thing as it actually indicates that the spot size is very close ( or smaller) than the dot-pitch of the shadow-mask: ie very good sharpness. I agree though that if its terribly obvious you need to do something about it. Also try dropping the contrast a tad it may be some blooming causing this I always recommend Video Essentials ( not the pluge the snell and wilcox zoneplate) for accurate setting of the basic picture controls if you are at all keen on the quality of your set-up.

    I actually suspect that because the resolution of the PKs is so high (comparatively for a domestic TV: isn't it the sharpest picture you've seen?)That this is highlighting some other weaknesses in the set. ie non-linearity of the spot size across the tube.

    I know this may sound like a cop-out but its symptomatic of domestic display devices. Either mushy focus or nice and sharp which discloses other problems. I'm kind of at the stage where I'm prepared to accept certain limitations of the "quality" level of the technology that I can afford. ( I would be less happy with a larger TV that included 100Hz though for example fro well described reasons).

    You might have got a lemon though as the overall quality of a given model can vary from set to set by virtue of the somewhat lacks tolerances employed in domestic TV manufacture. ( I suspect if you convince the vendor or panasonic that you have an inadequacy in your set a replacement is the easiest option for all concerned rather than recalibration)

    If the moire (or any problem) is just something that you've noticed and doesn't necessarily bother you then I'd suggest you don't worry about it too much. And please I'm not suggesting for one minute that you put up with something that makes you unhappy; there is a difference between being aware of a limitation and being unhappy.

    I don't work for panasonic by the way I just buy the best thing I see and the PK1 in my case was it (and I trust my eyes and a lot of other people pay a lot of money of to trust my eyes also ie: cinematographers and film directors) I just want the best bang for my buck like the rest of you guys.


     
  25. Sam

    Sam
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    Sorry to keep going on Mr.D, but I have a quick Q. The green line down the side of 4:3 pictures in RGB that I mentioned before does not go even if I increase the horizontal overscan dramatically. So do you think that the set needs replacing as it is very annoying? I will get an engineer out, but if he can't fix it then would I be right in saying that this is not a normal problem for the PK1?

    Thanks, and sorry to keep bothering you - I realise that you're in great demand now!

    Sam
     
  26. MartinN

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    I think it is normal, I've seen a few posts before on various newsgroups, although it is usually a white/grey line - it is on mine.

    The problem goes away if you use S-video input instead - I don't know if that's an option on Sky Digital.

    I only get it with 4:3 DVDs in RGB mode, and I don't own any!



     
  27. Sam

    Sam
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    Can't watch Sky or ON in S-Video, only RGB and composite available.

    So this could be a common problem then? Has anyone else had a similar problem?
     
  28. MartinN

    MartinN
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    Cheers Mr.D

    I'll have another go with the service menus. I suspect I'll have to live with it - all the PKs I've seen in currys/dixons etc suffer the same problem. Plus my guarantee has run out [​IMG]

    And you're right, despite the lines, it has got fantastic picture quality!
     
  29. adox

    adox
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    mr d,

    i too have a 32" pk1 and have been having problems with the rgb.
    basically i don`t use the rgb for dvd anymore as i am getting horizontal lines across the screen on occassions, mostly when something is moving in the picture, there is a horizontal line extruding from either side of it and it follows the path of the movement. it is not there all the time but appears quite frequently and makes it impossible to watch dvd through rgb.
    i am currently watching through s-video, but would prefer of course rgb. the best way to describe these lines is that they are like horizontal shadow bars that are coming from the picture when there is motion in the picture.
    any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    thanks
     
  30. Orbitalzone

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    For anyone interested, I've posted a few Panasonic service manauls < HERE >

    I can't remember if the TX28PK1 (which you can download) manual is very different to the 32PK1 - so look at the back of your 32PK1 label and see which chassis it has - I think it's either a Euro 4 or Euro 5 but I might be wrong.

    Hope this is of some help to you all Panasonic owners!

    I have a few other Panasonic manuals also that aren't online due to webspace restrictions.

    Edit : just checked and found that the 32PK1 is a Euro 5 chassis, so the 28PK1 manual isn't much use (other than the service mode entry should be the same)

    The only Euro 5 manual I have is on the site above listed for TX32PF10 which is 'similar' in many ways to the PK1 I believe.
     

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