Quantcast

Some Atmos tracks on discs are much lower in volume than TrueHD core and lossy DD 5.1.

r9800pro

Active Member
I have this really strange problem with a few Atmos tracks with some films while the majority are just fine.

The problem is that the Atmos mix sounds so much lower in volume than the TrueHD core of the same track or the lossy Dolby Digital 5.1 mix.

The Atmos mix for Midway is fine but when I revert back to the TrueHD core (by using my AVR's Direct mode or by using DTS Neural: X upmix), it is much louder and more dynamic. Also the lossy Dolby Digital 5.1 compatibility core is much louser and more punchy.

I used a dB meter app and it proved my finding. In a scene from 10:20 to 10:45 minutes, Atmos max was 92 dB, TrueHD core was 97 dB and DD 5.1 EX was 98 dB.

The same exact issue is in Charlie's Angels (2000) 4K where the max volume for the opening scene in Atmos only reached 92 dB while the TrueHD core reached 100 dB.
The same was also in Iron Man 4K where Atmos was lower than TrueHD by 6 dB

Most of the other films I tried have very similar volume levels between Atmos and TrueHD core and I see no technical reason why an Atmos metadata would have lower volume than the TrueHD core.

Could anybody try and let me know?

I am using a Sony STR-DN1080 with 5.1.2 Atmos setup and have no problem with most other movies Atmos mixes.

Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated.
 

Rambles

Distinguished Member
Can you not just increase the master volume on the atmos soundtracks that are mixed a bit lower?
 

r9800pro

Active Member
Can you not just increase the master volume on the atmos soundtracks that are mixed a bit lower?
I can but in all honesty, the TrueHD core still sounds better (fuller and more dynamic).
I am just wondering how could Atmos be lower in volume and dynamics than its core TrueHD mix in these cases and whether it could be my AVR or the films themselves.
 

Rambles

Distinguished Member
Louder always sounds better. But, you are right, it does seem odd that the soundtrack with atmos metadata is mixed at a lower volume than the one without the atmos metadata.

I wouldn't worry too much, and just turn up the atmos soundtrack to the volume that you want to listen at.

Unless... the atmos soundtracks are putting too much of a demand on your AVR, and causing it to clip. If you listen to the core TrueHD soundtrack are you listening in 5.1 without an upmixer applied? Then listening at 5.1.2 with the atmos soundtrack. So, are the two extra speakers causing the AVR power amps to run out of headroom.

If you repeat the process at a lower volume, where the AVR is not working hard and has plenty of headroom, you could measure the SPL level at the same point in the soundtrack when listening to both soundtracks, and see if there is a difference in volume levels then. That might give us a clue as to whether it is a power headroom issue.
 

r9800pro

Active Member
Louder always sounds better. But, you are right, it does seem odd that the soundtrack with atmos metadata is mixed at a lower volume than the one without the atmos metadata.

I wouldn't worry too much, and just turn up the atmos soundtrack to the volume that you want to listen at.

Unless... the atmos soundtracks are putting too much of a demand on your AVR, and causing it to clip. If you listen to the core TrueHD soundtrack are you listening in 5.1 without an upmixer applied? Then listening at 5.1.2 with the atmos soundtrack. So, are the two extra speakers causing the AVR power amps to run out of headroom.

If you repeat the process at a lower volume, where the AVR is not working hard and has plenty of headroom, you could measure the SPL level at the same point in the soundtrack when listening to both soundtracks, and see if there is a difference in volume levels then. That might give us a clue as to whether it is a power headroom issue.
Direct mode makes the TrueHD core indeed run in 5.1 mode but when I use DTS Neural: X, it is 5.1.2 and it is still loud and dynamic so I don't think it is a power headroom thing. Also, much louder Atmos tracks play perfectly fine like Transformers films Atmos mixes and many others.

I will try the dB meter at lower volumes and report back.
 

Davekale86

Well-known Member
Have you tried putting the AVR into AFD mode instead this will play the soundtrack without any upmixers ie DTS Neural, dolby surround, as some one else said on here if it's a Disney title they seem to be mastered at a lower volume for some reason all I do is just turn the volume up to a comfortable level,how are your speakers setup? 5.1 with TM or FH?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I've mentioned this in another thread, but I think I should also mentin it here too. The soundtrack on both the Blu-ray and the UHD release of Midway are Atmos. Both soundtracks are the one and the same soundtrack and not different. The Blu-ray soundtrack is the same TrueHD/Atmos soundtrack as that on the UHD disc.

Also note that Atmos isn't a seperate soundtrack and is just the same audio data as you'd have gotten via the TRueHD audio being handled by the AV receiver in accordance with what the Atmos metadata is instructing the AV receiver to do relative to your speaker layout.

Dolby Atmos content consists of both sound objects and positional metadata that describes where sounds should be placed and how they should move, along with other data such as the type of object represented, its size, and its volume or intensity. The Dolby Atmos object audio renderer is informed of the speakers available in your system and determines----in real time----which speakers to use to accurately recreate the sound the filmmakers intended. The actual sound onjects are included within the TrueHD or DD+ soundmix and aren't part of a different sound mix.

Dolby Atmos in Dolby TrueHD
Dolby has expanded the Dolby TrueHD format to allow the format to support Dolby Atmos content on Blu-ray and ultra high definition Blu-ray Disc. Prior to Dolby Atmos, Dolby TrueHD provided lossless support for channel-based audio, such as 5.1 and 7.1. Now we have added a fourth substream for Dolby Atmos sound in Dolby TrueHD codec to enable a support for a losslessly encoded object-based sound mix.

Dolby Atmos in Dolby TrueHD is transmitted from a Blu-ray player or Ultra HD Blu-ray player to your AVR via an HDMI connection. If your AVR supports Dolby Atmos, the Dolby TrueHD object-based audio and related metadata will be decoded, processed, scaled, and rendered to your specific speaker configuration. Dolby Atmos audio can be encoded with Dolby TrueHD at multiple sampling rates (including 48 and 96 kHz) and bit depths (16- and 24-bit).

Dolby Atmos enabled receivers will also support legacy Dolby TrueHD bitstreams at multiple sampling rates (including 48, 96, and 192 kHz) and bit depths (16-, 20-, and 24-bit) to provide full backward compatibility with legacy Blu-ray Disc media and Dolby TrueHD music files.

Dolby Atmos in Dolby Digital Plus
Dolby Digital Plus has been updated and features a new decoder capable of processing content encoded for Dolby Atmos. This module uses new bitstream metadata to extract Dolby Atmos object-based audio and outputs this information for further signal processing. The sampling rate for Dolby Atmos content is 48 kHz, the same sample rate as for Dolby Digital Pluscontent.
Both new audio decoders are designed to be fully backward compatible with legacy channel-based Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby TrueHD soundtracks.


THe audio asoect of the audio package is the same irrespective of whether your receiver is Atmos enabled or not. THe only difference is whether the included Atmos metadata is being used to map the audio objects to your speaker layout.

Varioations in levels may in fact be intended in order to better fascilitate and portray the movement of said objects around your room via the speakers you have. As such, I'd not expect a TRueHD soundtrack to sound exactly the same as the same TrueHD audio if and when subject to the AV receiver's interpretation of the Atmos metadata. Even Dolby Surround Upmixing has similar results if applied to non Atmos soundtracks.


Dolby Atmos allows each sound in a movie scene to be represented as a separate audio object. And each of these objects has its own positional metadata, describing precisely where it should originate and how it should move, along with other data.

Filmmakers frequently remix a film to sound its best in home theaters, a process known as creating a near-field mix. Spatial audio coding is a tool available to sound professionals in the near-field mixing process. During playback, filmmakers can monitor exactly how the film will sound when it is encoded to Dolby Digital Plus for streaming or encoded in Dolby TrueHD for Blu-ray and Ultra HD Blu-ray content.

Creating Dolby Atmos soundtracks for home theaters
Initial Dolby Atmos content for home theaters was delivered via Blu-ray Disc and streaming video via over-the-top (OTT) services. For Blu-ray and Ultra HD Blu ray, studios will employ lossless Dolby TrueHD for the primary soundtrack and Dolby Digital Plus for secondary languages. OTT streaming services and cable services are supported by Dolby Digital Plus. In the future, Dolby Atmos content will be delivered via video on demand (VOD) and broadcast (terrestrial and digital) that use multichannel Dolby Digital Plus in their core architecture. Dolby Atmos can also be supported in video game soundtracks and delivered to the AVR for decoding and processing via Dolby MAT.

Production houses that create Dolby Atmos content for home theaters will use a tool called Dolby Media Producer, along with its suite of professional encoding, decoding, and media-related tools.

Before using Dolby Media Producer, though, production houses have the option to perform several preliminary steps, including a near-field remix and remastering of the cinematic master file. In this stage of the process, audio mixers may make small adjustments to the mix to ensure that it sounds as they intended in Dolby Atmos enabled home theaters.
 
Last edited:

r9800pro

Active Member
Have you tried putting the AVR into AFD mode instead this will play the soundtrack without any upmixers ie DTS Neural, dolby surround, as some one else said on here if it's a Disney title they seem to be mastered at a lower volume for some reason all I do is just turn the volume up to a comfortable level,how are your speakers setup? 5.1 with TM or FH?
I always use AFD to get Atmos, otherwise I was just checking how TrueHD core sounds like by either using Direct mode or DTS Neural:X upmix and for the Blu-ray, the TrueHD core track sounded much louder.

My layout is 5.1.2 TM and I only change to 5.1.2 FH for DTS:X content (a stupid limitation of Sony where TM layout doesn't allow height channels to work with DTS:X content)

dante01: Thank you very much for the extensive reply and explanation and I understand all that.

The thing is, as I mentioned in the other thread is that the Blu-ray TrueHD core was much louder at the scene I tested as it was 97 dB while the TrueHD core of the 4K UHD disc was 92 dB which is really funny, I know, as both should be the same.

For Charlie's Angels 2000 4K UHD though, things are much worse because the Atmos mix is really poor and lacking in every aspect while the TrueHD core has a much louder volume, way better dynamics, bass that digs deeper and an overall better sound quality minus the height channels of course.
 

Davekale86

Well-known Member
I always use AFD to get Atmos, otherwise I was just checking how TrueHD core sounds like by either using Direct mode or DTS Neural:X upmix and for the Blu-ray, the TrueHD core track sounded much louder.

My layout is 5.1.2 TM and I only change to 5.1.2 FH for DTS:X content (a stupid limitation of Sony where TM layout doesn't allow height channels to work with DTS:X content)

dante01: Thank you very much for the extensive reply and explanation and I understand all that.

The thing is, as I mentioned in the other thread is that the Blu-ray TrueHD core was much louder at the scene I tested as it was 97 dB while the TrueHD core of the 4K UHD disc was 92 dB which is really funny, I know, as both should be the same.

For Charlie's Angels 2000 4K UHD though, things are much worse because the Atmos mix is really poor and lacking in every aspect while the TrueHD core has a much louder volume, way better dynamics, bass that digs deeper and an overall better sound quality minus the height channels of course.
Probably the way the sounds mastered my advice just turn it up a bit haha dunno what the deal is with Disney blurays and 4k they seem to be mastered pretty poor
 

r9800pro

Active Member
Probably the way the sounds mastered my advice just turn it up a bit haha dunno what the deal is with Disney blurays and 4k they seem to be mastered pretty poor
I agree about Disney but Charlie's Angels 2000 is Sony's and this and Spider-Man Far From Home are the only 2 titles with really poor Atmos mixes.
 

Davekale86

Well-known Member
Maybe the original blu of Charlie's angels wasn't a good mix maybe Dolby digital so when mastering it for Atmos they didn't have much to work with shame as Sony titles tend to be good mixes for Atmos, as for spider-man well that's Disney so we know where the problem lies there, dunno how they can keep getting away with putting poor mastering on their blurays and 4k, surely they must know by now, @dante01 post was a good insight into atmos tbf I haven't experienced the same thing as you with the Sony, what do you have the soundfield set as? Full flat, engineer?
 

r9800pro

Active Member
Maybe the original blu of Charlie's angels wasn't a good mix maybe Dolby digital so when mastering it for Atmos they didn't have much to work with shame as Sony titles tend to be good mixes for Atmos, as for spider-man well that's Disney so we know where the problem lies there, dunno how they can keep getting away with putting poor mastering on their blurays and 4k, surely they must know by now, @dante01 post was a good insight into atmos tbf I haven't experienced the same thing as you with the Sony, what do you have the soundfield set as? Full flat, engineer?
Sony did many remasters to films even older than Charlie's Angels and released them on 4K UHD with perfect Atmos mixes so it doesn't make sense this one is bad unless they outsourced it to a bad mixing studio.

Spider-Man films are still with Sony and Homecoming and Into The Spider-Verse have perfect Atmos mixes but maybe with Far From Home, Disney stroke a deal with Sony after Spider-Man rights fuss forcing them to use Disney's crappy mixing standards lol

Far From Home is also the only Sony recent film that has DTS-HD MA 7.1 on Blu-ray and not the usual DTS-HD MA 5.1 just like Disney.

The inconsistency is killing me with 4K UHD releases in all honesty.
 

Davekale86

Well-known Member
Sony did many remasters to films even older than Charlie's Angels and released them on 4K UHD with perfect Atmos mixes so it doesn't make sense this one is bad unless they outsourced it to a bad mixing studio.

Spider-Man films are still with Sony and Homecoming and Into The Spider-Verse have perfect Atmos mixes but maybe with Far From Home, Disney stroke a deal with Sony after Spider-Man rights fuss forcing them to use Disney's crappy mixing standards lol

Far From Home is also the only Sony recent film that has DTS-HD MA 7.1 on Blu-ray and not the usual DTS-HD MA 5.1 just like Disney.

The inconsistency is killing me with 4K UHD releases in all honesty.
Just get the bluray releases that's what I usually do unless I really want a film in 4k, haven't bothered with the Marvel in 4k apart from into the spiderverse nvm eh
 

Similar threads

Trending threads

Top Bottom