(solved...partly)Aaargh....HELP!! My surround receiver won't accept 23.976Hz from ShieldTV Pro(only 50/60Hz)???

DaneDK

Novice Member
Hello all in here.....and sorry, if this issue has been raised many times before! If so, please just link me to the answer thank you! ;-)

Quick equipment details:
1. Onkyo TX-NR905 surround receiver, THX Ultra 2, HDMI v1.3a(Top-model at the time). Recently updated the main firmware(v1.08-v1.09) and HDMI(v1.01-v1.02) firmware, hoping to fix this issue....but this made no difference.
2. Panasonic PX-80(old Plasma TV model)
3. JVC HD1 D-ila, cinema projector
4. ShieldTV Pro, 2019 edition.
And everything connected via HDMI cables. The receiver acts as a HDMI pass-through switch for my TV and projector(it has 2 HDMI outputs)

My situation is this, I recently bought a Nvidia ShieldTV Pro(2019 model), that replaces an older Popcornhour A-500 mediaplayer.

All was fine undtill I tried switching output from the Shield to 1080p/23.976Hz. I would now get a black screen undtill the output setting was auto-reset back to 1080/60Hz by the ShieldTV device. However, this only happens when I choose a 23.976Hz output. The other refreshrates where fine. I then tried connecting directly to my tv and now I suddenly could get the 23.976 output to work. So there is apparently something different about how 23.976Hz is output vs the other refreshrates.

I never had this issue with my Popcornhour A-500.

The only difference between the A-500 and Shield(that I could think of) was that Shield is a HDMI v2.0 device(HDCP 2.2). And the A-500 is a HDMI v1.4 device.
So in a last effort, I tried buying a HDCP converter. This is a small device that takes a HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 signal and converts it to a "older" HDMI v1.4 signal.
Received the converter today and have just come back from testing this combi out.....which unfortunatly made no difference! crying face

So I have basically exhausted all my options/ideas at this point. And now figured, I would try and see if others have had same problem and what solution they came up with. And just to be clear, I'm not looking for those "just go buy a new receiver" advices! ;-P
Money are low at the moment(and in the next forseeable future), plus my TV/pj can't utilize the newer features on todays receivers anyway. So I really would like to get the Shield to "play nice" with my Onkyo receiver! Hope there is some clever people in here! ;-)

It's not the cables, as it works when direcly connecting the Shield. But I have tried new HDMI cables anyway(also because I didn't mind having a spare laying about, for troubleshooting another time). And it's not some "new fault" in my Onkyo receiver, as the other mediaplayer has no issue with 23.976hz or even 24.00Hz signals.

So, it's must be a "Nvidia ShieldTV" specific issue......at least, that is my current conclusion! :)

Ps: I use Kodi for moviefiles playback. And yes, it's the same issue when I test the different refreshrate options in Kodi. All but the 23.976Hz option work.



Kind regards

Daniel
 

next010

Distinguished Member
Did you try forcing the output to 8-bit YUV 420 before switching to 23.976 ?

Nvidia shield forums or reddit/shield might be able to help but it seems like something a firmware update is needed to correct whatever issues are in the EDID of the receiver/Shield.

There is this alternate method for frame rate switching on the Shield, no idea if it helps in any way.

Without a firmware fix something that alters the EDID like HD Fury product like Dr HDMI 4K is only other solution I can think of, try contacting them directly and ask if that device will solve the problem, it is firmware upgradeable and you can craft custom EDID's for use with it.
 

DaneDK

Novice Member
Did you try forcing the output to 8-bit YUV 420 before switching to 23.976 ?

Nvidia shield forums or reddit/shield might be able to help but it seems like something a firmware update is needed to correct whatever issues are in the EDID of the receiver/Shield.

There is this alternate method for frame rate switching on the Shield, no idea if it helps in any way.

Without a firmware fix something that alters the EDID like HD Fury product like Dr HDMI 4K is only other solution I can think of, try contacting them directly and ask if that device will solve the problem, it is firmware upgradeable and you can craft custom EDID's for use with it.
Hello! :)

I don't know if you own a ShieldTV device, but I can only select between these colourspace formats, from the GUI menu system:

RGB 8 bit rec. 709
YUV 422 12bit rec. 709
YUV 444 8 bit rec. 709

And I have now tried all 3, and non of them worked with 23.976Hz (and 24Hz, though I only did 1 test with this output). So it's not a colour format issue.....if we can "trust" that the Shield device does indeed only output what is selected, and nothing else "fishy"/code dependent- is going on in the background! ;-)

Regarding the "(auto) Refresh Rate tool"....you mentioned. I think this tool is meant for people to be able to quickly sync. and thus change refreshrate during movie playback, so that the movie content and refreshrate matches and playback is smooth.
However, this does no apply to my situation, as my issue is that I don't get a picture AT ALL(receiver says "no signal"), when I change to the 23.976Hz/24Hz on the ShieldTV! :)

However, that special HDMI converter "thingy", does sounds interesting.....I will look more into that for sure! :-D

And lastly, many thanks for your input! ;-)

I have a bad feeling that Onkyo(because receiver is perceived as old/ceased support) and Nvidia(having a history for putting blaime on others if they see the chance) won't be able(or are interested) in helping me, so I am dependent upon other friendly AV enthusiasts for help! ;-)

However, I did try contacting Onkyo.....several weeks ago and never heard back from them.
And Nvidia's support, didn't seem to have much know-how about how the shield works or how AV equipment/signals in general works. The supporter suggested I should use the input on the SHield?? And that I should use ARC because "they always recommend using ARC"......pretty disturbing display, of how bad their supporters knowledge is! Eventhough I took the time to explain my issue in a very pedagogical and simple/non-techy way! Not impressed! :-(
 

John7

Well-known Member
Can you switch HDCP off in the shield? I can set it to 2.0, 1.4 or OFF in my Zidoo settings menu.

Don't know if it would make a difference in your situation, might be worth a try.
 

DaneDK

Novice Member
Can you switch HDCP off in the shield? I can set it to 2.0, 1.4 or OFF in my Zidoo settings menu.

Don't know if it would make a difference in your situation, might be worth a try.
HDCP might be an issue, I simply don't know yet and simply don't have(or know of) any way to isolate this properly currently. But I still think it's strange, that HDCP would only block 23.976/24 signals....I would imagine it would block all signals if HDCP was the issue.....though I have to say, that I have no experience on this topic.

As HDCP(High-bandwith Digital Content Protection) is a anti-piracy feature required by law, I don't think Nvidia is legally allowed to offer to turn this completely off on the ShieldTV......even if they wanted! ;-) So I think you will only find this feature in niche Chinese products, where the maker don't care too much about copyrights and that jazz! ;-)

But when hdcp becomes a technical issue, that blocks older equipment from being able to communicate with newer playback devices, with legal content.....then it suddenly becomes a "grey area", as I see it currently at least! An annoyance for sure...IF it's hdcp that is the issue! :)
 

razy60

Well-known Member
Have you tried disconnecting the PJ from the amp, as even if the PJ is off the internal board still sees the incorrect output.
 

DaneDK

Novice Member
Have you tried disconnecting the PJ from the amp, as even if the PJ is off the internal board still sees the incorrect output.
The receiver has 2 separate HDMI outputs. I use 1 for the tv and the other for the pj....so makes no sense they should be able to "interfere" with each other. And why don't they interfere when other refreshrate signals are used? That said, I tried your suggestion anyway....aaaaand didn't make a difference. But now I have perhaps displayed how "desperate" I am to get this working, he he! ;-)

While waiting for no answer from Onkyo, I will try and contact that chinese firm, making that HDMI box linked above....though, I suspect they will say something like this "sure it will absolutely work.....how many units will you like to order?).....as my experience with asian companies or chinese in particular, is they will tell you what you "wanna hear", if it means they can make money on you, he he! ;-P
 

John7

Well-known Member
"Copyright" has already been bypased in ripping the media files in the first place, so there is no need for the media player to implement it!
 

DaneDK

Novice Member
Ok, just to close this thread "properly", I will now add what I learned from this whole situation and summarize my current situation:

1. The issue was not hdcp related. Hdcp is only relevant to talk about, if problems arises when playing back hdcp protected videos(like your blue ray/UHD disc's).

2. I made a "newbie mistake"(I just got the ShieldTV remember), when I tested refreshrate support in the beginning of troubleshooting. I thought I could switch frequency by using the refreshrate option implemented in Kodi's(v19.1) video settings menu. Turns out, this function is overruled by the set output refreshrate in the Shield interface. So if I want to change refreshrates, I need to do this by using the SHieldTV's own output settings menu option....apparently. Not very entuitive(or smart) but okay, lesson learned.

3. After learning "2", I did a re-check on the projector(remember I quickly switched to only test on TV in the beginning), and now I was suddenly able to get 23.976hz working, by using the ShieldTV's own output setting. I also had already done the firmware update on the Onkyo at this point, but I don't think this did/fixed anything in this regard.

4. Sadly, I still can't get the Panasonic plasma TV to work with 23.976hz from ShieldTV, and according to Nvidia(level 3 support), it has to do with edid communication. I was curious about what fix/workaround Nvidia would then suggest me, but I was let down in that department....as the Nvidia supporter only added "they never had any issues reported with Onkyo receivers and edid before". Then I didn't hear back from them, so I guess, that was my answer then...


But I was happy to learn I can actually use my pj with 23.976hz, as that is my primary device for watching that type of content anyways. But dissapointed to learn that the auto-refreshrate feature does not work, and I need to manually change the refreshrate to match whatever content I want to watch on the ShieldTV. I guess AppleTV 4K is better in this regard?

And of course, I was also dissapointed that I can't use 23.976hz on my Panasonic tv, as I know it's supported by the tv and works without issues on my older mediaplayer. But I'm not sure I'm dissapointed "enough" to shell out 99$(plus taxes, import fees and shipping), for that chinese EDID HDMI fixer device, linked higher up in the thread. But I actually did write them, asking if they thought their device could help solve my 1080p/24 signal issue on my tv. But they never bothered replying back! And this is not a good start, if that is any indicator of how easy they are to reach for support later on, if I should actually decide to give their hardware a try! ;-(

Aaaand that's it!

If this information helps anybody else out there....let me/us know! ;-)
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
What type of file or container are you trying to play while having the issues with native 23.976Hz frame rates?
 
IIRC when the issue was EDID the preferred solution was an HDFury as someone mentioned above...they come in multiple types now so I'm not sure which one would be best in this case
 

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