(SOLVED/ FOUND) Help choosing paint for home cinema - how much does a pure a shade/ grey matter? Trying to fine a pure dark grey

Triggaaar

Distinguished Member
Well, thinking about it now, I value my space so much since it is not a dedicated room and am far more aware of the visible space around me, which feels 'epic' and heightens the sense of scale from the image.
Well a non dedicated space is of course different. We live in an Edwardian house, because we too like the feel of high ceilings etc. But if you're in a blacked out room, once the film starts, I assume you can't get a sense of scale from visible spare around you, because there is none. Before and after the film are of course different.

While the image during the film is a high priority for me, I understand that part of the enjoyment of watching a good film is also in being in a nice environment. The image might look great once the film has started, but if it didn't feel like a nice experience when you sat down, that's going to have an impact. But I don't expect that losing a few inches on the width here and there will impact how my room feels.


Secondly, the large, dynamic bubble of sound the space affords me. Though, I know that will only shrink very slightly with panels fitted.
I don't think it would shrink at all with panels. The opposite in fact, the whole point of the panels is to make the bubble of sound better. Remember that absorbing panels don't simply reflect off of their surface, so any sound that does reflect to you still has to go to the main wall and back, but there will be less of it, and the reflected sound you do get will have had to bounce off more surfaces, so it will be more diffuse, have traveled further and your space will sound larger.

Your panels also don't need to stretch to the floor or ceiling, and if you light up those areas when the film isn't showing, your eyes will be drawn to the highest/widest parts of the room.


Gary explained to me that he used 32mm x 19mm battens (from Wickes, he recalls), so he only lost around 64mm from the room width in total. He also hid 30mm Rockwool behind the MVEL which is used to tame audio reflections below 44" height. Deeper is better he said, but like me, he did not want to lose any more width than I had to, otherwise he would have had 2 or 4 inches of Rockwool and an air gap for best effect. So, although he have less width than you, he was happy to lose some width as the velvet was worth it.
Interesting that Gary found it enough, I know he knows his stuff. Results will be room and speaker dependent though.

An air gap doesn't give the best effect, you get better without an air gap, but what an air gap does give you is nearly the same results for less money. ie, 2" of Rockwool and inch off the wall gives nearly as good results as 3" of Rockwool on the wall. Both take up 3", but one is cheaper.



I just thought that, if I can go with deeper panels, being able to have some beneficial sound treatment hidden inside the fabric panels, instead of acoustic panels jutting out from the walls, is another bonus.
I don't quite get what you mean - what's the difference? Isn't sound treatment hidden inside fabric panels exactly what acoustic panels are?

I'm talking about home made panels, with rockwool (or similar) inside, and covered in MVEL. They will be my acoustic panels (except for some fancy diffusion panels, but let's not worry about the for the minute).

I think I can look into the panelling after my room is painted.
Definitely. You can see how it sounds, take same REW measurements, see where it needs help etc.


I still do not feel confident I can make them myself, however.
Ah. Piece of cake.
 

Triggaaar

Distinguished Member
Worth adding that Gary also added that, he thinks that,

"With just 30mm treatment behind my panels I don't feel that there is much to gain improving upon that.
Are the front of Gary's panels 30mm from the wall, or does he have 30mm of treatment and inch from the wall, giving him more like 2" of treatment?
 

fallinlight

Distinguished Member
Well a non dedicated space is of course different.

Sorry, to clarify, I meant that it is currently not a dedicated room but I have the option to make it dedicated or semi-dedicated.

We live in an Edwardian house, because we too like the feel of high ceilings etc. But if you're in a blacked out room, once the film starts, I assume you can't get a sense of scale from visible spare around you, because there is none. Before and after the film are of course different.

I believe my house is Victorian. I love the room, which has just over 9 ft ceilings. It is approx. 4.8 x 3.4 x 2.8 m at the widest (length and width) points.

While the image during the film is a high priority for me, I understand that part of the enjoyment of watching a good film is also in being in a nice environment. The image might look great once the film has started, but if it didn't feel like a nice experience when you sat down, that's going to have an impact. But I don't expect that losing a few inches on the width here and there will impact how my room feels.

Trust me that when I say I will be able to notice a few inches lost, I really can. If blacking out my room, I probably won't much, or at all, though.

I don't think it would shrink at all with panels. The opposite in fact, the whole point of the panels is to make the bubble of sound better. Remember that absorbing panels don't simply reflect off of their surface, so any sound that does reflect to you still has to go to the main wall and back, but there will be less of it, and the reflected sound you do get will have had to bounce off more surfaces, so it will be more diffuse, have traveled further and your space will sound larger.

I prefer a directional sound, having tried tri and bipoles in my room. And what I meant to say was I like that my speakers are currently spaced far apart, so that I have a wide soundstage.

Your panels also don't need to stretch to the floor or ceiling

How comes? I would want to black out all of each wall.


Interesting that Gary found it enough, I know he knows his stuff. Results will be room and speaker dependent though.

Yes, true.

An air gap doesn't give the best effect, you get better without an air gap, but what an air gap does give you is nearly the same results for less money. ie, 2" of Rockwool and inch off the wall gives nearly as good results as 3" of Rockwool on the wall. Both take up 3", but one is cheaper.

Ah, yes, that makes sense, thank you.

I don't quite get what you mean - what's the difference? Isn't sound treatment hidden inside fabric panels exactly what acoustic panels are?

I meant that the deeper the panel, the thicker the sound treatment/ rockwool. But according to Gary/ Peter Parker, he is content with his 32 mm panels which house 30 mm of rockwool.

I'm talking about home made panels, with rockwool (or similar) inside, and covered in MVEL. They will be my acoustic panels (except for some fancy diffusion panels, but let's not worry about the for the minute).

Yes, that is what I mean, too. But I think Gary has lined the entire lower portion of his panels with rockwool instead of performing measurements to identify reflection points. And he previously had carpet used in the same way, along the bottom half of his wall(s).

Are the front of Gary's panels 30mm from the wall, or does he have 30mm of treatment and inch from the wall, giving him more like 2" of treatment?

I'm not sure, I think they are flush with this wall, no gap.
 

Triggaaar

Distinguished Member
Sorry, to clarify, I meant that it is currently not a dedicated room but I have the option to make it dedicated or semi-dedicated.
Yep, spend some time working out exactly what functions the room will be used for, and where else in the home can also serve those functions. I started planning for our room to be a games room as well as cinema room, with a TV in there somewhere. In the end I decided I can't get a tv anywhere in the room that would work, so I will have a second projector for when the kids want to game for hours (they're not using my bulb!), and we can also use other rooms for gaming on a tv. I worked out that with the amount of films we like to watch, I'd have been disappointed with anything other than a dedicated space, as we're lucky that we have space elsewhere for lounging etc.


I believe my house is Victorian. I love the room, which has just over 9 ft ceilings. It is approx. 4.8 x 3.4 x 2.8 m at the widest (length and width) points.
Ok, that's a bit thinner than mine, so understand that space is a premium.


How comes? I would want to black out all of each wall.
Well you don't need 2, 3 or 4" panels just to black out. There are plenty of ways, for example you could fix the fabric to a vertical strip of wood, and fix that wood to the wall with the fabric either at the front or back, and then stretch the fabric with a matching strip of wood several feet to one side. Or you could do the same thing, but with horizontal strips instead of vertical. You needn't lose any space just to get fabric on the wall. Then where you need the acoustic panels - near head height - you can add some panels.

There are plenty of ways. Watch all the youtube videos you can, check out all the build threads here, and use your imagination.
 
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fallinlight

Distinguished Member
Yep, spend some time working out exactly what functions the room will be used for, and where else in the home can also serve those functions. I started planning for our room to be a games room as well as cinema room, with a TV in there somewhere. In the end I decided I can't get a tv anywhere in the room that would work, so I will have a second projector for when the kids want to game for hours (they're not using my bulb!), and we can also use other rooms for gaming on a tv. I worked out that with the amount of films we like to watch, I'd have been disappointed than anything other than a dedicated space, as we're lucky that we have space elsewhere for lounging etc.

Fortunately, I can lounge elsewhere, but I've been doing it so long in this room and love it so much in here, ha ha. But I already know this room will make an amazing dedicated room. I am actually a video games collector and have a dedicated room for my video games, which also houses a beloved grail, a Sony Trinitron 21X5U.

To be fair, I guess my room has actually been dedicated for a short while now, there is nothing else in here apart from home cinema gear. It just isn't done up and complete (furnished properly; paint, carpet, proper curtains, screen, acoustic treatment).

Well you don't need 2, 3 or 4" panels just to black out. There are plenty of ways, for example you could fix the fabric to a vertical strip of wood, and fix that wood to the wall with the fabric either at the front or back, and then stretch the fabric with a matching strip of wood several feet to one side. Or you could do the same thing, but with horizontal strips instead of vertical. You needn't lose any space just to get fabric on the wall. Then where you need the acoustic panels - near head height - you can add some panels.

Yes! I can't believe I did not think of that, thank you so much. That sounds like a great idea and solution. I could just use thin strips of would that way, too. The only thing is, how do I work around my skirting boards? I think someone told - maybe Gary, or Mark/ mb3195 - that they worked around this by fitting wooden blocks or something by their skirting, but I really cannot remember.
 

Triggaaar

Distinguished Member
Yes! I can't believe I did not think of that, thank you so much. That sounds like a great idea and solution. I could just use thin strips of would that way, too. The only thing is, how do I work around my skirting boards? I think someone told - maybe Gary, or Mark/ mb3195 - that they worked around this by fitting wooden blocks or something by their skirting, but I really cannot remember.
Since I'm building a new room withing my room, I'm planning to add extra skirting boards for the inner room, which I'll make with plain 6" x 0.75" something, and I was just planning to paint that black. It won't be as dark as the black material above it, but will I actually be able to see it? Down there in the corner, I can't imagine it having much light shining on it.

If painting it black doesn't do the trick, I'll have to cover it with material.
 

fallinlight

Distinguished Member
Since I'm building a new room withing my room, I'm planning to add extra skirting boards for the inner room, which I'll make with plain 6" x 0.75" something, and I was just planning to paint that black. It won't be as dark as the black material above it, but will I actually be able to see it? Down there in the corner, I can't imagine it having much light shining on it.

If painting it black doesn't do the trick, I'll have to cover it with material.

I think you will be fine. In my room now with the projector on and with my setup (106" 16:9 image approx. 67 cm in from either side wall and approx. 90 cm from top of image to ceiling), there is no noticeable reflection or distraction from my white skirting anywhere/ in my peripheral. They are now very old and the gloss has worn from the years I think, and my filling sand sanding work in places. I purchased Dulux Diamond eggshell in the blackest black I could find that they could mix, which was Jet Black 9005. So, I think that should do them well just fine.

I am actually now thinking to go with blackflock, having read through this entire thread:

 

Triggaaar

Distinguished Member
I think you will be fine. In my room now with the projector on and with my setup (106" 16:9 image approx. 67 cm in from either side wall and approx. 90 cm from top of image to ceiling), there is no noticeable reflection or distraction from my white skirting anywhere/ in my peripheral. They are now very old and the gloss has worn from the years I think, and my filling sand sanding work in places. I purchased Dulux Diamond eggshell in the blackest black I could find that they could mix, which was Jet Black 9005. So, I think that should do them well just fine.
Yeah I'll try something like that. I'm waiting for you to give me a full list of paints, and where to use each :)


I am actually now thinking to go with blackflock, having read through this entire thread:

I think each material has its use. MVEL (there are alternatives - I'll post a link if needed) for where you need black and acoustically transparent. Self adhesive for where you just need to stick it to a wall and you don't need it quite as black. Paint for where it's easier and you either don't need it as black, or you don't want it as black (ie, you might want to light some areas up when the film is off, like skirting or around a soffit).
 

ozzzy189

Distinguished Member
I got laughed at in another thread because I claimed a room decorated with a matt finish would sound better than one painted with silk or sheen. I had to leave the thread in a huff because the piss taking was a bit too irritating for here.
It's often the case, 'Please help! I've changed my room/moved house/redecorated and my sound is terrible'.
That kind of thing.
Please tell me I'm not nuts!
 

Kingchin

Active Member
I got laughed at in another thread because I claimed a room decorated with a matt finish would sound better than one painted with silk or sheen. I had to leave the thread in a huff because the piss taking was a bit too irritating for here.
It's often the case, 'Please help! I've changed my room/moved house/redecorated and my sound is terrible'.
That kind of thing.
Please tell me I'm not nuts!
Matt, silk, sheen paints will have no audible difference to the sound you hear. There is sound deadening soundproofing paints available meant to reduce noise dB levels but even those will have minimal effect.

But not nuts if you meant using a matt paint to improve the picture quality if using a projector. Though light rejecting good quality black fabric will be much better.

Ps. I got laughed at before in a Samsung thread for saying the AI gives a artificial picture. And on another thread for saying acoustic treatment improves the sound quality in normal rooms lol.
 
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fallinlight

Distinguished Member
Please tell me I'm not nuts!

I'm afraid to tell you that...

you are in fact nuts.

:rotfl:

Just kidding by the way.

As Kingchin said above, different sheen paints will have no audible difference, with no experience comparing, I would assume this to be true.

My cinema room has had vinyl matt walls with a slight sheen for its entire life an things have always sounded great to me.

Ps. I got laughed at before in a Samsung thread for saying the AI gives a artificial picture. And on another thread for saying acoustic treatment improves the sound quality in normal rooms lol.

We could start a laughing thread.

I will be having my room painted soon. About 2 months in, I have finally settled on paint, brand, shade scheme. I will be using Tikkurila instead of Dulux Trade now. In the future, if I want, I will install panels and MVEL22.
 
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ozzzy189

Distinguished Member
I'm afraid to tell you that...

you are in fact nuts.

:rotfl:

Just kidding by the way.

As Kingchin said above, different sheen paints will have no audible differnece.

My cinema room has had vinyl matt walls with a slight sheen for its entire life an things have always sounded great to me.



We could start a laughing thread.

I will be having my room painted soon. About 2 months in, I have finally settled on paint, brand, shade scheme. I will be using Tikkurila instead of Dulux Trade now. In the future, if I want, I will install panels and MVEL22.
Thanks for the reply but silk is a very reflective paint compared to matt and I think it definitely affects the sound of the a stereo.
 

fallinlight

Distinguished Member
Thanks for the reply but silk is a very reflective paint compared to matt and I think it definitely affects the sound of the a stereo.

OK. I would assume there would be no difference but I have not compared and tested. It doesn't matter what anyone else believes, if you believe what you do to be true. That is your own experience after all.
 

ozzzy189

Distinguished Member

fallinlight

Distinguished Member
Hi all,

So, I am mid-way painting my room. But I'm really not liking the grey, I find it too bright and I don't like how it is looking with the black. I am now thinking to go paint everything in the Flints Theatre Black (front wall and ceiling).

I find the grey too bright for my liking, especially in the day time, or with room light. I think it looks funny with the black ceiling and front wall, too. It doesn't blend in as I wanted. So, I'm actually just thinking to switch over and paint everything black in the Flints now. Otherwise, I spend £90 more pounds on a darker grey : /

Photos of how it looks in daylight and night time, below.

I quite like the idea of it being all black now. The viewing experience will be better, more immersive I reckon, and I think it will look better and more classy. What do folks think?

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fallinlight

Distinguished Member
I've decided to go all black! Yeah!
 

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