1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Soldier Blue on UK TV TONIGHT!!!!

Discussion in 'TV Show Forum' started by PoochJD, Nov 22, 2004.

  1. PoochJD

    PoochJD
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2000
    Messages:
    10,992
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Norwich
    Ratings:
    +1,862
    Hi,

    The film "Soldier Blue" last aired on BBC2, late at night on Friday 16th August, 2003, between 00:20 and 02:15 hours. The timeslot was kind of understandable, bearing in mind the ending, and the nature of the film itself.

    In the BBC's defence, though, it was a good clean print, and was almost in the right ratio, as far as I could tell. (The film appears to start in a hard-masked 2.35:1 ratio, before pulling out to its proper ratio of 1.85:1, which is what the BBC version did as well.)

    Well, for those who missed it last time around, the film is on again, tonight, 22nd November 2004, on BBC1, at around Midnight. :clap:

    It's the exact same version as shown before, and although it's not the complete and uncut version (which is still banned in the UK), it's an almost-complete version - missing about 1 minute of graphic violence/sexualised violence from the final 20 minutes.

    If you haven't seen it, watch it. And if you're not sure if you want to import the fully uncut Dutch DVD, then this will give you the chance to watch it, before deciding to make a purchase or not.

    DON'T MISS THIS FILM! :lesson:


    Pooch
     
  2. Garrett

    Garrett
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2001
    Messages:
    31,309
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    The best thief you’ll never see.
    Ratings:
    +4,006
    Funny such a acclaimed film and yet Peter Strauss never went on to bigger things and was stuck in the TV medium rather than being a star like his counter part Nick Nolte in Rich Man, Poor Man.
     
  3. captaineyecatch

    captaineyecatch
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    Messages:
    2,013
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    South of Heaven
    Ratings:
    +21
    Isnt the fully uncut dvd a german release - I'm sure mine is ??
     
  4. Kevo

    Kevo
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Messages:
    5,354
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +144
    This is one of those notorious films that I've always wanted to see.

    I missed it last time around, but i'll definatley catch it tonight.

    Wasn't it banned for a while due to a rape scene?

    Is it still as bad by today's standards?
     
  5. pjclark1

    pjclark1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,411
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Thailand
    Ratings:
    +271
    the german release is uncut, the BBC version is cut to ribbons
    more like 5 mins than 1 min missing.
     
  6. PoochJD

    PoochJD
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2000
    Messages:
    10,992
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Norwich
    Ratings:
    +1,862
    Hi,

    Oops! Yep, I meant the German DVD release, not Dutch.

    Secondly, the BBC print is not cut-to-ribbons, as PJ Clarke says. It is cut, definitely, but it's a case of a few seconds here, a few seconds there; a trim from this bit, etc, etc. They haven't physically taken out lots of material.

    The BBC cut is longer than the original BBFC approved version. The most recent BBFC-approved version is 109m 28s. The BBC print runs to 113m 08s! As the full, uncut version runs to about 114m, I deduced that the BBC print was cut by only about 1m. :lesson:

    Either way, short of buying the full uncut German DVD, under the title of "DAS WIEGENLIED VOM TOTSCHLAG", this will be the only other way of seeing this controversial movie as near-to-uncut as you can get in the UK.


    Pooch
     
  7. captaineyecatch

    captaineyecatch
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    Messages:
    2,013
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    South of Heaven
    Ratings:
    +21
    Amazon germany(amazon.de) was/is? selling the german dvd i seem to remember it was quite cheap less than £12 ish? The print on it is very very good anamorphic with good quality mono english soundtrack. it also has some trailers on the dvd. Well worth getting if you want to see this uncut.
     
  8. Garrett

    Garrett
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2001
    Messages:
    31,309
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    The best thief you’ll never see.
    Ratings:
    +4,006
    How come only Germany have it on DVD? :confused:
     
  9. pjclark1

    pjclark1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,411
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Thailand
    Ratings:
    +271
    I paid about £15 delivered from amazon.de (E21.25), took me a while
    with babelfish to work out how to order, but all ended well.

    It shows american soldiers killing and torturing unarmed civilians
    (deja vous) so it's not given much of an airing.
     
  10. Garrett

    Garrett
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2001
    Messages:
    31,309
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    The best thief you’ll never see.
    Ratings:
    +4,006
    If you wish to read the true facts about the end of the film have a look here.
     
  11. Kevo

    Kevo
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Messages:
    5,354
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +144
    What exactly was cut out of the BBC version?
     
  12. Gary D

    Gary D
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Messages:
    7,770
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +826
    i saw this on Video when i was 15/16 on VHS in 1980/81 ( i believe before the BBFC had anything to do with home video) it made me sick, it was one of the most horrific things i'd ever seen - some images from that film still haunt me today - i vowed i'd never see it again.



    Gary
     
  13. PoochJD

    PoochJD
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2000
    Messages:
    10,992
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Norwich
    Ratings:
    +1,862
    Kevo,

    I can't remember the exact cuts made, but generally it was scenes of:
    - disembowlings
    - beheadings
    - raping and torturing of women and children
    - slaughtering of women and children
    - excessive sexualised violence towards women
    - excessive and barbaric torture/murder of children

    "Soldier Blue" is a very notorious film, and it's the final 15-20 minutes that always cause the problems, hence it's still cut for UK cinema, video and TV screenings.


    Pooch
     
  14. Kevo

    Kevo
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Messages:
    5,354
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +144
    There was a scene in the attack on the village at the end where I couldn't see how they did it, it looked very real.

    The scene where I think it was two Indian kids (or a kid and it's mother) ran into the path of several oncoming horses and got trampled on.
    There was no cut, it was all done in one take and you see them go under the horses. Now that DID look horrific :eek:
     
  15. pjclark1

    pjclark1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,411
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Thailand
    Ratings:
    +271
    didn't watch the BBC one but let me guess what you didn't see

    1) soldiers holding squaw down, stripping, cutting breast
    2) child impaled on top of wigwam
    3) female lead in tent being splattered by blood from kid shot through the eye
    4) Custer playing with female child, with leg cut off from sabre, then shooting
     
  16. michaelm

    michaelm
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2001
    Messages:
    678
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Belfast
    Ratings:
    +2
    But surely where a BBFC-approved version of a movie exists, this is the only version allowed to be transmitted on British television, unless the transmitting channel adds further cuts (ie swearing, nudity, violence before the 9pm watershed)?
     
  17. Gary D

    Gary D
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Messages:
    7,770
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +826

    All those horrific images just keep flooding back.



    gary
     
  18. Garrett

    Garrett
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2001
    Messages:
    31,309
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    The best thief you’ll never see.
    Ratings:
    +4,006
    1) It missed that one out.
    2) it showed that.
    3) it showed Chief Running Fox in a tee-pee with a child beside him, the child is shot in the eye and his brain and blood splattered out of the back.
    4) it showed that but it was not Custer but Colonel. Iverson

    It also showed a squaw being striped naked, Running Fox being pinned down whilst being repeatedly stabbed, and a totally naked squaw hung up with her throat cut.

    It was not humanities finest hours and was not an isolated incident as often was the case of victors over the vanquished. :(
     
  19. PoochJD

    PoochJD
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2000
    Messages:
    10,992
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Norwich
    Ratings:
    +1,862
    Hi,

    I know some people may criticise me for saying this, and I offer my apologies, but bearing in mind the film is based on a real-life historical event, and bearing in the mind it's only the final 15-20 minutes of the film, why is this deemed as being still unsuitable for viewing uncut within the UK, either at cinema or in the home on DVD/VHS?

    Bearing in mind, you can rent R18 porn, and watch a host of horror films that are probably just as tasteless, why is this particular film still deemed a video nasty?!


    Pooch
     
  20. Garrett

    Garrett
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2001
    Messages:
    31,309
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    The best thief you’ll never see.
    Ratings:
    +4,006
    With your opinions Pooch :smashin:
    I think most of the relative of that film would probably not contect any action taken in the film with there ancestors, whereas more recent cases of murder are made in to films naming names. :confused:

    I think films like this bring home what really go on, sometimes better that what you see on the news, and then you can put into context with what goes on in real life and war.
     
  21. Gary D

    Gary D
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Messages:
    7,770
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +826
    i pointed out a post above that this film horrified me when i was young - i would say that this is a good example of why certificates are in place - i was not emotional mature enough to handle the subject matter. I have no problem with the subject matter at all - we humans for the most part are horrible nasty people out for what we can get and i'm sure that the true events in the film were much, much worse.

    I think the film should be available to purchase, however, as regular readers know, i work for blockies part time and it breaks my heart when i give a film to someone and i know that the under tens in the house will see it - some parents have no idea what they are doing to thier kids!! It's precisely why we are not allowed (as consenting adults) to purchase what we like. because there is a minority out there who will let there kids watch/play anything. A bunch of 6 year olds playing the GTA games!! when i informed the mother that it was an 18 her response was "well its only a video game and it will keep them quite"

    that said you can get it from Germany so if you want it order it.


    Gary
     
  22. PoochJD

    PoochJD
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2000
    Messages:
    10,992
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Norwich
    Ratings:
    +1,862
    Hi,

    Michael M, you said: "But surely where a BBFC-approved version of a movie exists, this is the only version allowed to be transmitted on British television, unless the transmitting channel adds further cuts (ie swearing, nudity, violence before the 9pm watershed)?"

    You're partly right, and partly wrong. Under the old ITC/TV watchdog guidelines, (sorry, can't remember what they were called) before Ofcom came into being, TV channels weren't allowed to transmit non-BBFC approved material. However, the problem was, TV stations had access to vast back-catalogues of really old films, that were so rare and/or obscure, as to have never been submitted to the BBFC in the first place. Hence, the TV stations were basically left to make a suitable version of the film, depending on when it was going to be shown.

    In recent years, though, with most of the major TV stations now dealing direct with Hollywood companies and film organisations directly, e.g. Warner Bros, Universal, Disney, et al, the TV companies aren't often aware that the prints they get sent, will often be US prints, not BBFC-approved UK prints. Hence, you often find with newer titles, that a print shown on terrestrial TV will have material that may have previously been censored from the BBFC-approved versions, e.g. like "The Matrix" when it was shown on Five recently.

    By law, only ITV, C4 and Five have to abide by the BBFC guidelines. However, as long as a film is shown at a suitable time, and no complaints are made to Ofcom, then the channels can get away with showing almost whatever they want. With the BBC, they are a law unto themselves, but sometimes their scheduling decisions have back-fired hideously. Examples have included:
    - trying to be the first terrestrial channel to air "The Last Temptation Of Christ" (over Christmas holiday, in the mid-1990's!)
    - airing "Se7en", in a heavily censored version, but at 9pm on a Sunday night, and
    - C4 airing the full uncut version of "The Abyss", back in the early 1990's, and getting a £2000 fine for doing so, because it contained the non-BBFC approved "rat breathing oxygenated-water" sequence, in full.

    With Sky, they are supposed to abide by BBFC regulations, and also have different (earlier) watershed times, (8pm for 15 certificate films, rather than 9pm, and 10pm for 18 certificate films, providing they have been encoded, to stop them being accessed by younger viewers, which usually means adult need to enter a PIN number into their Sky box to watch the film). But, then again, they too, have also shown non-BBFC approved material.

    Other satellite channels have done the same. "Bravo" often aired "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Part 2" uncut and uncensored, in the early-1990's, which at the time was banned by the BBFC. It did a short, uncut season of Dario Argento films too, many of which were non-BBFC approved.

    Ultimately, it's a bit of a minefield, but boundaries are always changing. However, even when BBFC-approved stuff is shown, people still complain. Just check out the Ofcom Programme Complaints page... here!, to see what I mean!


    Pooch
     

Share This Page

Loading...