Solarization on plasmas

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs Forum' started by Dreamboy, Jul 5, 2004.

  1. Dreamboy

    Dreamboy
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    I've been testing and watching at some plasmas. I've noticed that in dark scenes, soft color gradients and during moving scenes appears some solarization in the images. I noticed this when testing an XBox with a 42" LG at the shop.

    I've also seen it on some other LCD's and plasmas. I don't know if this is due to the image processing.

    Can this be solved someway? I'm surprised that this expensive devices gives this ugly effects that a 120€ CRT TV don't show.
     
  2. davegy

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    I am just in the process of returning a Fujitsu P42HHA30 which the supplier has agreed to replace because I say it is faulty. I am getting severe solarisation especially noticable on faces where they move on screen. In its mildest form is like a double image with red and green coloured edges and at its worst where lighting is dull it gives faces a ghostly appearance by seeming to exagerate the contrast giving dark almost black eye sockets and white skin tones. Nothing I did could remove the effect and a call to the Fujica service team didn't bring forth any useful adjustment ideas either. Does anyone know if this model is prone to this problem as I have to decide whether to accept a replacement of the same model or whether to go for something else. Which of the main models suffer least from this kind of digital effect, would I be better with a progressive scan panel rather than an Alis panel? can anyone help?
     
  3. Dreamboy

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    Wow! This seems much worst the I saw on the LG. The effect was very subtile on some scenes but I noticed it. It's not as bad as to return the display. Where more noticed this was when tried XBox - Splinter Cell. There are many dark scenes and the main character has a small glowing light in his equipment. There were noticeable solarization around this light in the darkness.
     
  4. AngryofMayfair

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    This is very very interesting as I am finding the exact same problems/concerns with my Hitachi 37" plasma (ALIS panel). I am very confused about this problem as I can't say that I noticed it on other Hitachi plasmas or even other brands of plasma, at least not at anything near the extent I see it on my plasma in my home viewing environment....
    That *may* be a clue as here in Australia all the stores are showing off the plasma quality by feeding it with the HDTV demo loop and that seems to be rather cunning in that there is very little fast movement or panning that really shows this problem at it's worst...
    The rgb contour lines at the banding area are the most disturbing aspect of the problem and no matter what I do in the settings I can't get rid of them... :mad:

    I'm thinking that perhaps all plasma sets suffer from this problem/effect to some degree, unless anyone can catagorically state that their set does not have *any* banding/solarisation???
     
  5. andy572

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    Dreamboy, are you sure that wasn't just the game? My memory of Splinter Cell and its sequel is that there's an appreciable softness and glow to the image at times (part of the design, rather than a fault) - nowhere more so than in-game lights (such as the example given, floodlights and table lamps).

    That was on a CRT television (via RGB), too!

    Hmm, I'll have to check it on a monitor...

    Anyway, I was just wondering :)
     
  6. MAW

    MAW
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    LG are well known for solarization, as are all alis screens, though it may be possible there to alter the settings to alleviate the effect. There are a lot of loyal alis owners here who could maybe help you on that. However, you hardly ever hear a Panasonic or Pioneer owner complain of this, nor have I ever seen it on one of these.
     
  7. Dreamboy

    Dreamboy
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    Andy, I'm sure it's not the game as today I have been playing Splinter Cell Pandora's Tomorrow on my Philips 30" CRT TV and it's absolutely smooth and dark scenes looks great. I'm not even using an RGB cable just the default composite video.

    It's sad to hear this about the LG as I ordered mine last friday. Anyway I was testing it for a couple of hours at the shop and I was satisfied with it. I tryed with a Dreamcast, XBox, DVD player, analog TV and my DV camera. The results for the price of the TV are good for me.

    Can somebody give me some advice on the settings to minimize this effect?
     
  8. willberry

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    I have an Hitachi 5200 (ALIS panel) and what I do not understand is that if it is a problem with the panel, why do I regularly see it on freeview but never on DVD? Surely this suggests a source quality problem?
     
  9. MAW

    MAW
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    Theoretically freeview and DVD are close quality wise, but it might depend on the box you use. It might be more to do with the different ways your screen deals with the source, ie look at connection methods for the problem, and also consider your luck, it's only 1 source with the trouble.
     
  10. Blu-rayx

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    Hi davegy,

    I've had the Hitachi 400E & Fujitsu P42HHS30ES,both had really bad solarisation and dark vertical lines,but the Fujitsu was the worst.

    I've had my pioneer MXE1 for one week,and must say i have not seen any solarisation :D

    Send the Fujitsu back and get a pioneer you will not be disappointed.

    I highly recommend the pioneer MXE1 :thumbsup:

    I will never buy another ALIS screen again :thumbsdow

    DVD
     
  11. MAW

    MAW
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    Well, DVD, a change of heart! I'd agree with your assessment, the pio may not be the blackest screen, but it has it's compensations. I like the new MXE-1, it has few if any, typical plasma problems, that's why I ceaslessly rattle on about Pioneer and Panasonic screens, and get the backs up of alis owners.
     
  12. Blu-rayx

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    Maw,


    You are absolutely right,that the MXE-1 may not have the best black level, but makes up for it in other departments :smashin:

    I watched a few dvd's over the weekend and i can't believe the 3D effect this screen can produce,i'm blown away with the PQ :)

    This has to be one of the best plasma's out at the moment.


    DVD
     
  13. golrat

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    Forgive me for bein a newbie but one thing i have noticed on my pioneer 434hde is that on areas of light in a game they sorta distort and blur when i turn around . Is this what solarisation is, cos if it is then i'd be right to assume my set was pretty faulty eh? :( bugger
     
  14. Joe Fernand

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    Hello all

    DVD:
    Just wait until you audition a Lumagen on the end of your MXE1 :)

    Willberry:
    Your Freeview can max out at about 2/3 the potential bit rate of a decent DVD so it'll always be asking the video engine in your display to work much harder to interpret the incoming signal.

    The lower cost screens are lower cost because somewhere along the lines savings have been made - be it in the Plasma Array, Screen Filters, Power supply or (key to this issue) Video Processing.

    Even in the best Displays you can push the hardware much harder and get more refined results using an external 'high cost' video engine.

    Having worked with Plasma on a daily basis since 1998 we're pretty surprised and under whelmed (shocked) by some of the kit the manufacturers reps bring to our door - for me many of the low cost units are just false economy; and no end of tweaking will get the result you should get when spending upwards of £1.5K on a TV.

    MAW:
    There seems to be less flag waving by the ALIS crew these days!!!

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  15. Blu-rayx

    Blu-rayx
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    How much do they cost?


    DVD
     
  16. Joe Fernand

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    Hello DVD

    Way too much :) though Gordon at Convergent-AV (UK Distributor) tells me they are excellent value!!!

    There are Three units in the NEW Next Generation line up - Two of which are a good match with the MXE1.

    The VisionHDP starts at (SRP) £1.2K with options for BNC Analogue out and SDI Digital Inputs and the 'Fully Loaded' VisionProHDP is (SRP) £1,95K; so not inexpensive but they do make a big difference with your SD and HD signals.

    Drop me a note if you want more detailed info.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  17. Dreamboy

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    I would like to see the degree of solarization that shows other panels like the Alis or the Hitachis to compare. As I said, in the LG I saw it was just noticeable sometimes and in some especial conditions. This was on the last model from LG, the RZ-42PX11. It includes the XD engine, 3000:1 contrast and other features.I thing that image processing must have been improved from previous models.
     
  18. dUnKle

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    Well I had terrible problems with my 5200 but now its "almost" perfect

    Even BBC and ITV during the football had no noticable problems this is via Sky+ connected to the TV with a THOR scart cable

    I think its a wear in thing - for the first few hours I thought I had wasted a lot of money - but now after a months use I did not think I could get such a good pic
     
  19. willberry

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    Strange you should say that, I am actually on my 2nd 5200. For the first Comet sent me one off display which even had a SKY logo burnt onto it, needless to say I complained and got a new one. The funny thing is though, I never saw any solarisation on the old (extremely ran in) panel.
     
  20. noidea

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    Duncan - glad you sorted your screen out. I have one coming soon and was getting a bit put-off by some of the problems you'd had. Is it straightforward for you to post up the picture settings you ended up with? feel a bit cheeky asking.. :blush:
     
  21. Dreamboy

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    Yes Duncan. It would be nice if you tell us how you have setup your 5200 to solve the problem. Maybe it can be useful for me too when my LG arrives.
     
  22. Mr.D

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    Every plasma I've seen posterises to a certain extent .
    ( most conventional CRT sets posterise if they employ digital processing to any degree)

    There is a fujitsu in the company boardroom and I put a few management noses out of joint by slagging it off and preferring not to have my work displayed on it to clients. It was simply awful with regard to posterising even after calibration ( if you can call it that as we couldn't get it close enioght to what we wanted anyway).

    The panny 5 series I have at home is miles better but it still posterises to a certain extent. This is the main reason I don't like plasmas all that much . They are very sharp but the intensity range is definitely lacking even on the best ones.

    A lowly panasonic ae100 has less posterisation problems : although to be honest tthe viewing situations are chalk and cheese.
     
  23. cybersoga

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    I was gonna say that too - every plasma, every LCD is a compromise. I think "solarisation" is more visible on alis panels because each line is refreshed in half the time that one line would be refreshed on a progressive panel - this means there's less time for the temporal dithering to work. Alis panels arn't all bad, they do have high resolution and look great with 1080i, but the quality of the processing built into the panel has a great affect on PQ esp with standard definition sources - Fugitsu's processing isn't as good as Sony's in my opinion.
     
  24. chicken balti

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    Bought my Panny 4 because a couple of reviews commented on the lack of solarization. In the 30 odd months I've had it I have witnessed this particular artefact about half a dozen times. Not bad.
     
  25. Blu-rayx

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    cybersoga,

    There are a few dvd's i have that showed solarisation on Both the Hitachi 400E & Fujitsu P42HHS30ES.

    But my Pioneer MXE-1 shows no solarisation :D


    Also DVI on the Fujitsu P42HHS30ES was crap,the MXE-1 via component blows the Fujitsu out of the water :smashin:

    Ok the MXE-1 may not have the best black level,but apart from that this screen is perfect for me :thumbsup:


    DVD
     
  26. dUnKle

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    im going to re-calibrate again either wednesday or thursday to allow for it being run in and will post settings then
     
  27. Dreamboy

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    Great! Thanks a lot Duncan. :) We'll be waiting for your settings.
     
  28. AngryofMayfair

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    Their could be something in that, I hope so as I'm at the 'expensive mistake' point at the moment. Also I wonder if it's not just the set that wears in but the viewer too - a lot of people say they no longer see rainbows with DLP PJ's after viewing them for a month or two...
     

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